Loving/The City Discussion Thread

[Wendy]

I recall reading somewhere, and maybe I'm misremembering this, but I believe even though OLTL hit the ir before AMC, Nixon had actually written the original AMC bible before OLTL. So, if indeed AMC was essentially first, there may have been a sentimentality factor for Nixon there.

[cassadine1991]

I believe she originally tried to pitch AMC to Proctor & Gamble in the early-60s but they said no and she used parts of her AMC bible when she was HW of Another World, then she created OLTL and when ABC loved that soap they asked her to create another one and she dusted off her AMC bible 

Edited June 5, 2017 by cassadine1991

[NothinButAttitude]

 

That great to hear that she did train Gordon Russell on the ins and outs of OLTL. However, she still should've stepped in during the 80s and got their asses together at times. OLTL did have their over-the-top moments then.

 

I don't get why she nor Marland didn't train someone to take over Loving after they both stepped away from it. Loving had potential to last longer than it did. They just needed the right visionaries to center the show. It obvious through fans of the show that it suffered from an identity crisis. 

[DRW50]

 

I don't get the feeling that Marland left Loving on happy terms whatsoever. 

 

I think that Nixon was a head and heart type writer. I think OLTL was her head (as she used that for many of her psychological explorations and setting a template for her soap work before moving on) and AMC was her heart. I think she was also fond of Loving, as she repeatedly got involved in the show again (and as mentioned by someone else I tend to wonder if she is one of the reasons ABC kept it as long as they did), but ultimately AMC was her baby.

[NothinButAttitude]

 

Understanable. I do get that AMC was her first love, but I do wish that she could've been more hands on with this show and even OLTL. 

 

Maybe it's just me and how I am with my own personal projects. I love them all equally. 

 

But speaking of Marland, does anyone else feel that the kitchen set that belonged to Stacey somewhat resembled the Snyder farm kitchen? The tones, the furniture, woodwork... Is it just me?

[DRW50]

Is it just me or is Kate a bit dowdier and older here than she'd be in a few years? I guess they may have traded her up from being Ada-esque as time passed. 

 

Always happy to see more of Roya's Ava. And Shana's husband Jim as I've mostly just seen photos of him.

 

The lengthy wedding flashback reminds us that this must have aired during the writers' strike. 

[BetterForgotten]

Marland likely found Agnes infuriating to work with. We know how involved he liked to be in the writing of his shows, and to have to answer or collaborate with someone like Nixon must have been hard for him. 

 

Patrick Mulcahey, who wrote for Marland at both GL and Loving, once mentioned how much he disliked Nixon's involvement in Loving's writing process:

 

How did you start in Santa Barbara ?

 

Thereby hangs a tale. After working with Douglas Marland on Guiding Light and then on Loving, which I hated (and where Agnes Nixon was like some psychotic schoolmarm on speed, making copious condescending red-pen "corrections" in the margins of scripts - "You used the same word on page 2 and on page 34 ! Too repetitive !") - after that, I decided I was done with writing for soaps. Douglas was the best. He'd taught me more about writing than any ten literature professors ever could have, plus I'd won an Emmy. I figured I'd never have another experience like that, so I decided go back to what I knew best : waiting on tables and writing plays at night and being a starving artist again.

Edited June 5, 2017 by BetterForgotten

[NothinButAttitude]

I love Patrick Mulcahey. He seems like a writer that doesn't give a sh-t. I didn't know that Agnes was that anal. But I guess when you wrote for Irna Phillips, you are bound to pick up some of her OCD ways. 

[Sapounopera]

 

No, I also think that everytime I watch the 1984 episode with the Donovan set 

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Doug Donovan and Seth Snyder from ATWT

 

Stacey Donovan and GL's Hilary Bauer, both secretly in love with a popular guy (Jack/Kelly)

 

Phillip Spaulding was a kid on GL during the Marland years, but Jack Forbes grew up as the adopted heir on Loving

 

Marland's first Ava (Patty Lutz) was a factory worker and a lot more similar to Nola Reardon than later Avas who were more like Erica Kane.

 

Lily Slater's story -which was dropped- was later told on ATWT with Angel.

 

 

I am sure Marland was not happy to see the Donovans written out so quickly. The show gave up on its original characters way too soon.

 

 

 

 

[NothinButAttitude]

 

OK. I am glad it wasn't just me. That set heavily resembles the Snyder farm kitchen set. I'm wondering if Loving had the same set designer and he/she possibly moved to ATWT with Marland. 

 

I am also glad that you broke the rest of the similarities between Marland's previous and future shows with Loving. I knew that Ava was mean to be a carbon copy of Erica but I didn't know that she started off similar to Nola. I am guessing that it was Agnes who decided to shift her from Marland's greatest vixen to her own. Just goes to show that even great writers borrow and recycle their own material but tweak it for other shows. Don't blame 'em as if it broke, don't fix it. 

[Sapounopera]

 

 

I kind of like that 

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 It is interesting to think that Rachel Davis and Erica Kane started out as the same person and that they followed different paths over the years. The Horton brothers both in all with Laura Spencer, the Foster brothers in love with Chris Brooks and the Forrester brothers will Caroline Spencer -all stories written by Bill Bell- didn't end the same way. This is the beauty of soap opera. 

[NothinButAttitude]

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[DRW50]

Aside from a dubbed clip I put up months ago that's the only bit of Pat Barry Isabelle I've seen. It doesn't really seem like Isabelle...

[GH_Girl]

 

Was she high when that happened?? I'll never see her in anything without thinking about the child she killed. From what I recall, she was behind a car that stopped at a crosswalk, she pulled out around the car to speed by him and that's when she hit and killed the child. Incredibly sad, incredibly preventable, and I don't know how she lives with herself. Especially now that she has children of her own.

 

More on topic, I never watched Loving, but I saw most of The City's run and liked it a lot. Recently I've gone back and watched Ally/Casey clips on You Tube and I love them, but the real stand out to me has been Lisa Peluso's Ava!! I loooooove her.  Anyone know if there are any of her storylines up on You Tube? Or what her best stories were? Also it cracks me up to like Ally and Casey as I hate LW's Carly so much my skin crawls at the thought of her, and PAS's Danny was not my cup of mobster tea on GL.

[John]

Gayheart was in the accident not Collins

The City was really good