IYO, what were Sami's choices, Skin?

IYO, what were Sami's choices, Skin?

I think Sami had a choice to refuse EJ's proposition that right then shows that it wasn't rape. She could of aslo sought an alternative way to get help for Lucas after dropping EJ off and after the threat was removed. She could of sought help from the police and gotten help for Lucas by Salem PD. EJ was not her only hope at saving Lucas. There are endless possibilites in which Sami could have gotten alternative help for Lucas. Sami is a very well connected core character who has attachments to virtually everyone on the cavanas in one way or another.

Edited May 13, 200817 yr by Skin

I get the gun portion of it. However there is nothing that implied that had Sami refused to sleep with EJ that he would have shot her or tried to kill her for refusing him. EJ did take Sami hostage so that he could flee the police. However he never threatened to shoot Sami if she chose not to sleep with EJ. That was never even expressed in the show. The director nor the writers used the gun as a reason for Sami sleeping with EJ. It's not as if EJ was threatening to kill Samantha if she refused to have sex with him if that was the case it would certaintly be rape, however that was not the case. Especially since the dialogue and direction even state that the entire reason Sami slept with EJ was because Sami needed EJ to lift the beam from on top of Lucas. So no the gun was not the catalyst for her sleeping with EJ. The reason Sami slept with EJ was for one reason and one reason only to save Lucas from dying as a result of the beam crushing him in the freezing cold. Not because EJ threatened gun violience. After dropping EJ off Sami could have had a number of different options to save Lucas. It's not as if EJ was her only option to save Lucas.

That's not true. It was just the most convient and the quickest. She could have found other alternatives. Sami's a resourceful girl, who has finagled complex schemes and mainpulated the entire town she could have found another way to save Lucas.

Perhaps he did take advantage but that still doesn't change the fact that it isn't rape. The fact that Sami was given the choice to say yes or no completely nullifies the arguement. She wasn't coerced, she wasn't threatened, she was put in an awful situation and she made a desicion but she could have just as easily made the other one. It's not like Marty Saybrooke who was viciously assaulted by three men, Bianca who was ruthlessly attacked by Micheal Cambius or Elizabeth who was savagely attacked and thrown into the woods by her attacker. None of them had choices. Sami did.

Laura was an entirely different case. Laura had a choice and she said no. Luke persisted. That was rape because Laura was forced and had no choice. You can't compare the two because Sami had a choice.

So you're telling me that if someone kidnaps you, waves a gun around your face and forces you to drive them through a police roadblock, 15 minutes or even an hour later you'd be okay having sex with them because there's no guarantee that they'll use the gun? What's that saying, oh yeah, the best indication of future behavior is previous behavior. EJ set a precedent by waving that gun at Sami and forcing her to take him through the road block. She had no way of knowing, and neither do we, that he wouldn't have held that gun to her head and still raped her even if she hadn't agreed to the "deal". btw, consent by coercion is not valid. Sex without consent is sexual assault, aka rape.'

Edited May 13, 200817 yr by electrorat

I think Sami had a choice to refuse EJ's proposition that right then shows that it wasn't rape. She could of aslo sought an alternative way to get help for Lucas after dropping EJ off and after the threat was removed. She could of sought help from the police and gotten help for Lucas by Salem PD. EJ was not her only hope at saving Lucas. There are endless possibilites in which Sami could have gotten alternative help for Lucas.

1) EJ had a gun.

2) It was EJ's car (if I'm not mistaken)

3) EJ threatened Sami if he didn't help her get past the police

So exactly what was she supposed to do?

The lack of valid consent does not necessarily mean that the victim explicitly refused to give consent. Generally, consent is considered invalid if it is obtained from someone who is:

* Under any kind of duress (force, violence, blackmail, etc.)

* Judgmentally impaired or incapacitated by alcohol or drugs (legal or otherwise)

* Mentally impaired whether by illness or developmental disability

* Below the age of consent defined in that jurisdiction

.............

So you're telling me that if someone kidnaps you, waves a gun around your face and forces you to drive them through a police roadblock, 15 minutes or even an hour later you'd be okay having sex with them because there's no guarantee that they'll use the gun?

btw, consent by coercion is not valid. Sex without consent is sexual assault, aka rape.'

Through both the direction and the writing the reason Sami agreed to EJ's terms was not due to the gun. We can put that to rest right now. The gun was not the primary factor that Sami slept with EJ. EJ was all set to leave the car until Sami pleaded for EJ to help her save Lucas. From that point on Sami's major factor in sleeping with EJ was that he would help save Lucas life it was NOT about the gun nor about Sami's fear that EJ would kill her if she refused. That is not canon.

More over the entire bit about "coercion" isn't valid either because EJ didn't force Sami to say yes and didn't threaten her to consent. Sami chose her choice because it was the fastest way to save Lucas. Not because of some underlying fear that EJ would kill her that was not the motivating factor and to say it was completely ignores canon and the storyline.

1) EJ had a gun.

After EJ was taken to the dropoff spot the gun wouldn't be a factor because the threat would have been removed. She wouldn't have to fear the gun.

2) It was EJ's car (if I'm not mistaken)

It was Lumi's car, EJ just hijacked it. It was the same car Lumi drove to camp out on thier honey moon I believe.

3) EJ threatened Sami if he didn't help her get past the police

After she drove part the police line she could of easily went back and asked for help from the police to help Lucas. It's not as if she couldn't of sought help from someone else.

He did none of those things. He didn't force her to sleep with him. He didn't blackmail her into sleeping with him. He didn't threaten physical or any kind of violience on her either. He did say that the only way that he would help her would be if she slept with him. That's basically it. That consititues none of the above. It certaintly isn't blackmailing her nor is it violience or threatening.

Edited May 13, 200817 yr by Skin

Now watch those clips and tell me he didn't rape her. Tell me he didn't blackmail her. Tell me Sami wasn't under duress. Tell me EJ didn't get off on it. Tell me he didn't taunt her. Tell me that wasn't rape.

^^^^Now that's what I'm talkin' about!

Not blackmailed? Not threatened? What show are YOU watching? Oh what selective memories we have.

Edited May 13, 200817 yr by SoapQueen89

Now watch those clips and tell me he didn't rape her. Tell me he didn't blackmail her. Tell me Sami wasn't under duress. Tell me EJ didn't get off on it. Tell me he didn't taunt her. Tell me that wasn't rape.

You can embed as many clips as you want. He didn't blackmail her into having sex with him. Blackmailing is when you threaten to reveal true information about a person if they don't do something that you want them to do in exchange for keeping quite. EJ did not do that. He didn't blackmail Samantha into having sex with him. Your only reinforcing what I just posted above countless times. EJ and Sami made an arrangement where Samantha CHOSE to have sex with him in exchange for helping Lucas. That is what those clips show. That is what your showing right now.

It wasn't rape. The fact that Sami agreed to have sex with him to help Lucas shows that it wasn't rape because she knew what the terms were had a choice and she chose to agree with the terms and chose to have sex with EJ. He didn't force her to have sex with him, look at the clip. He doesn't batter her, he doesn't shove the gun in her face, he doesn't threaten her, he doesn't blackmail her by saying he is going to revealing some truth about her unsavory past to her family if she doesn't sleep with him. NONE of those things are in that clip. None of those things happend.

Regardless of the taunting it wasn't rape.

I mean it's as clear as a bell:

"I'll help you with Lucas if. if you give me you"

Oh an by the way what the writers said in the show wasn't blackmailing, it could be called "extorting" but that's rather arguable.

Edited May 13, 200817 yr by Skin

I'm done....I honestly don't get it.

HUH? Blackmail comes in many forms, and he threatened her into doing something AGAINST HER WILL in order to save Lucas' life.

He wanted something in exchange for helping her......sounds like blackmail to me.......

Good post. I'm not saying you're "wrong" but I don't agree with certain things...

This is about a soap couple - and two characters on a soap. I don't take it personally. Sorry, I just can't do it. Or maybe I just don't and therefore won't do it. I control what I watch, I didn't learn morals from the media or a tv program, and I don't apply real life standards to Days or any other program. I don't expect everyone to agree with me. I don't expect to agree with everyone. I'm not trying to push my motives and agenda on other Days viewers, but I won't buy into selective morality and/or lose sleep over what's happening on Days. I don't get into the fanbase campaigns - too much time and effort that could be spent doing other things: things that matter in real life. Yes I love Days and I love to talk about the show, but once the tv and computer are off... life goes on... for as much time that I'm granted that is... and there's always a child who needs a hug, an animal that needs tended to, a veteran to thank, a loved one to say 'I love you' to...etc... real things, real people...

Thanks for being an adult when you disagree first of all. Once again this board is Freaking amazing.

Really guys, this is the best board on the net, hands down, no question about it.

BUT, I want to respond to this paragraph because it kinda got to me. Not because of what you said but because I want to clarify what I think the issue is....

First, I love escapisim. Thats why I watch Days in the first place. I miss the relevant seventies, when this show made it to number one by pushing the envelope of realism. HOWEVER, some of my greatest memories of this show were during the Prism storyline, the Cruise of Deception, Marlena's Possesion, Carly Buried Alive, The Salem Stalker, Kristen/Susan (the secret room), just to name a few. I love camp. I love over-the-top stories that leave reason behind, to an extent, and entertain me as a viewer.

BUt, BUT, BUT........When you decide, as a show, to have an event like what happened to Sami on Dec 29th, When you decide as an executive producer to OK a sexual assault by duress, you Better have the balls to play it out right. Sorry, but that's the only way I can put it right.

This is a soap. It's not going to be National Geographic or Law and Order SVU. But rape is a subject the entails a person violating another human being in the most personal and emotionally harmful way. It speaks to people and has an effect on the way viewers watch. It says EJ is such a terrible person that he would force himself on a woman as she has tears streaming down her face, and then vocally taunt her afterwards. It may be just a soap, but even just a soap has some sort of moral responsibility.

I have a wonderfully busy life. I have children, and a wife that watches Days with me (when we first met, Days was one of the things we had in common, and we still watch). I work as a director and Fashion Buyer for a young contemporary label for a major high-end department store. I have a career I love in an industry that fits perfectly with my personality and style. I'm not a little hermit crying "Poor Sami, and shame on you EJ"

Yes, life goes on, and Days isn't reality. But in reality, a story that involves sexual abuse deserves some respect, even from an off the wall soap like Days. There are too many women and men everyday that suffer at the hands of an attacker for me to just brush this off. Yes, it's just a soap and I'm taking this seriously, but the show told a story about rape, a serious and touchy subject. Corday and Co. made this the plot point that all others turned on. This rape kicked of a year and a half's worth of events that we are still seeing on screen.

It's one thing to deop the ball on the Serial Killer storyline, and leave holes the size of Texas in that. It another thing to drop the ball on sexual assualt. To me, it's a new low.

I don't take Days seriously, though. This whole post is to say that. Yes I'm a "fanatic" about the show, but really, this is Days. This show had a woman buried alive with an air conditioner in her coffin, and never explained how she used the restroom. This show had it's heroine(Marlena) floating over her bed and her eyes glowing green. Days is not taken seriously by me, and God help me if it were.

I DO take rape seriously, and this show went there. Since they went there, take responsibility. This isn't a fantasy storyline. It's a real horror that's happened to many of your viewers. Take a page out of TED CORDAY'S book, Kenny Boy, and treat a social issue like it matters. Why should he? Because social issues do matter, and they matter a great deal.

That is my opinion. This is my disclaimer. Feel free to disagree and think what you like. It's not for me to tell you how to feel, but I love expressing my opinion, and love hearing other's opinions, especially on this board.

All the posters on this board rock, simply because this is a soap board that thinks. It's incredible, and I love it!

Edited May 13, 200817 yr by DaysFanatic777

I agree Rape is a subject that could be taken seriously. AMC did the same recently by using Kendall's attempted rape as nothing but a plot point

Ryan & SoapQueen, great posts

Edited May 13, 200817 yr by Zendall Fan

he threatened her into doing something AGAINST HER WILL in order to save Lucas' life.

He didn't threaten her, where did he threaten her? He said that he was not going to help Lucas if she didn't have sex with him. That was all he said. He wanted to sleep with her. That's not threatening. He named his price and it was Sami who CHOSE to sleep with him to save Lucas. He didn't threaten to harm her nor did he threaten to harm her family. He said that in order to help Lucas she would have to sleep with him. There was no threatening there. He made a proposal. That was all. I am still not getting where you got "threatening" from. He didn't threaten anything. He just said he wouldn't help Lucas if she didn't sleep with him.

He wanted something in exchange for helping her......sounds like blackmail to me.......

That's not blackmail. Blackmail is when you threaten to reveal substantially true information about a person to the public, a family member, or associates unless a demand made upon the victim is met.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackmail

As to what he did being illegal. He wanted payment for his services. He wanted compensation that's about it. It was a deal. That's not against the law. He didn't force her to have sex with him he made a proposal Sami said yes.

Edited May 14, 200817 yr by Skin