2008: The Directors and Writers Thread

[SOAPSFOREVER]

But why was she scorned? The show was rewriting history. Phoebe dumped Rick. Rick didn't dump her. And when she found out about Taylor and Rick, after the initial shock wore off, she gave her mom her blessing. The anger she came back with just didn't ring true. If the writers had given us more than a couple of days before Phoebe was killed off, the show could have explored Phoebe's unresolved pain and why she'd hidden it. Or that she didn't realize how much she was still hurting until the kiss Steffy told her about triggered something. Instead, we're "treated" to more Ridge and Brooke in the bedroom scenes, which we've seen a zillion times, instead of exploring the areas where the real drama is. Also in another thread, I mentioned the directing on this show, which I don't think is nearly as good as it used to be. The director should have pulled the actress back. She could have expressed her rage without the over the top hysteria. I wish the show had gone on location for the accident, too. The whole thing looked so fake. Or at least they could have shown some stock footage of a car veering off the road.

[SOAPSFOREVER]

A good head writer or breakdown writer doesn't necessarily translate into a good scriptwriter. They are three very different positions requiring three very different skills. Maybe Smith is better with breakdown or headwriting, though he kind of bombed at Y&R as headwriter, I guess. Or maybe he's just not as invested in B&B as he used to be. There could be all sorts of reasons

[SOAPSFOREVER]

Maybe it was the acting and directing, not the writing. Or maybe it was all three. But the actress was way over the top. The director should have pulled her back. Kyle Lowder is playing Rick like some mustache-twirling villian, too. It's very artificial and detracts from the story that's supposedly being told. Also, I wouldn't confuse a bad breakdown with bad story. Steffy clawing and scratching and going nuts wouldn't have come from the breakdown writer, it would have come from the story meeting. It's how the headwriter and co-'s would have talked it. From my source, I understand Alden approves all the "outlines" before they go to the scriptwriters, so she must have approved of the way this show (and the scenes in the show) were presented. She also edits, along with Minnis and bell, so they could have changed it if it isn't what they wanted.

I couldn't agree more. I just wish the was headwriting AMC. I don't know why they didn't offer him position instead of Chuck Pratt. He would have done wonders. That show needs his help, much more than OLTL.

[MarkH]

I'm still torn about whether Smith bombed as HW at Y&R. It if fair to say that I was finding myself progressively less interested as he went along...but still interested. I didn't realize how bored I was (well, I realized I hated hated hated Brittany Hodges, but that is another story) until LML started, and there was energy again. But, I didn't notice any major DISRUPTIONS or PROBLEMS at Y&R under Smith. It was just....less exciting.

(At the same time, I loved JT & Colleen, and I thought Cameron Kirsten [the story] and Bobby Marsino [the character, NOT the story] were shots in the arm). I hated everything Kay and Jill had...from maternal bond to Arthur Hendricks.

Still, the man wrote Cassie's death. And it was very, very good. What a shock that NONE of that richness could come to B&B with him.

Clearly, the over-acting was PLANNED at some level. They specifically scripted "Stephy claws Rick's face, leaving fingernail marks". So the only way that made sense was if Stephy went batsh*t crazy.

The problem, then, is that on top of it Mauzy was never very strong. She was not up to, IMO, this material. Especially since the backstory was so thin. So, we had bad backstory, intentional over-the-top writing, AND weak performances.

I can't wait (cynicism) to see

.

You know, if you look at Y&R Cassie's death...the ultimate ending was virtually wordless, and with a musical montage. The same was true (wasn't it??) of Storm's final moments. (I remember few words, music). That was a way to reduce the cheese.

They should have tried this here.

Car crashes always undo this show. Macy burned to death...but then she lived. Worse yet, I remember Taylor killing Darla with a car. That was so histrionic and awful...that is when I first tuned out B&B for many months and took it off my DVR. I could not watch the show again until Betty White came on.

[SOAPSFOREVER]

I don't know that Smith bombed, either, but he didn't raise the ratings (or should I say, stop the ratings slide, started under Alden). That's why they got rid of him, ushering in the LML debacle.

[MarkH]

No individual, living or dead, could have stopped the ratings slide.

Actually, the ratings slide started in the 1980s (yup, when Bill Bell was at the helm), and --like every soap-- has continued since then.

The trajectory of decline was roughly equal for Smith, Bell, and Alden. And, by the way, Latham and Arena Bell.

It is a global, trans-soap process, with a roughly similar slope across all soaps.

Dena Higley could be writing Y&R, and the rate of ratings decline might be the same :-). (I'm not actually sure I believe THAT).

If we focus on ratings, Maria Arena Bell had the steepest slope of decline in early 2008. Many blame that on LML's weakening of the show prior to her reign; others blame it on the ill-conceived Sabrina plot.

Ratings WAS NOT the reason to get rid of Smith.

[SOAPSFOREVER]

The issue is the RATE of decline. Bell's was very gradual. Alden and Smith's were much more rapid. If Bell had continued as head writer, the slide would have continued, but probably not as quickly, mainly because he had such a tight control on the show. After he stepped down, there was a power struggle by Ed Scott and Alden. The show lost its sole voice. I still argue that this is the problem with all soaps today, mainly, way too many cooks in the kitchen, especially people who don't understand writing. Arena Bell has the hardest job of all, though, in trying to win back the viewers Latham alienated. I'm talking all the loyal Y&R veiwers who drfited away as she rewrote history and damaged characters. If Bell can do that, and stop the slide, she's worth her weight in gold. I'm hoping she can.

[MarkH]

No, I disagree.

Rate of decline was comparable between Bell, Alden, Smith, Latham, and (for the most part) Arena Bell.

See below:

[MarkH]

That last figure was unreadable.

This does a better job (it is for Y&R only):

Sure, there are MINOR fluctuations in rate of decline, but the rate of decline has been essentially invariant and linear and negative since the 1992-1993 season.

We see the OJ effect in there (plummet, but then it bounced up a bit by the 1995-1996 season).

As the red line shows, though, it is a piece of cake to model that with a monotonic linear decline function. Moreover, you can explain about 90% of the variance in ratings with that simple function.

It is not statistically meaningful, IMO, to argue that the rate of decline varied by headwriter.

The MUCH more interesting story is what happened in the early 1990s.

Y&R started declining a bit later than some other soaps...but once it started...it has been unrelenting decline ever since.

[Toups]

I'm pretty much blaming the person(s) who actually decided what would happen in the scene. Phoebe's actions (the punching, the clawing, the grabbing on the wheel, the stepping on the pedal) that caused the accident soured her death for me because all I could think of was "Phoebe, you idiot! You killed yourself!" It was just a poorly written accident.

[MarkH]

Total agreement, Toups.

SOAPSFOREVER, here is the last Y&R ratings chart with key "TBTP" milestones superimposed. (I hope this is clear to see).

Bear in mind that the ratings decline rates are not statistically meaningful (so when the decline looks shallower or steeper, it really isn't...it is all fluctuating around a single regression line).

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Mark and his damn graphs....

[MarkH]

I'm sorry. I get obsessed when people try to claim that the rate of decline varied because of different creative people, or because of OJ, or because of changes in "quality'.

Statistically, and even by observation, it is easy to see that the Y&R decline can't be blamed on any one person. The two steeper periods are Jack Smith-as-EP, and MAB. But those aren't (as near as I can tell) statistically steepr than any other time.

More and more, I'm also thinking (for Y&R) these network ratings are useless. Live + 7-day DVR + Soapnet + all the online viewership = 8-10 viewers per episode in the US alone!

I'll stop with the damn graphs!

[Y&RWorldTurner]

I was kidding, I quite enjoy them. You must put a good amount of time and dedication into doing them.

[MarkH]

Not really, I have the data and I just use a program.

But I am a little obsessive about it.