GH: Week of September 10th

[Skin]

I don't remember seeing that. I know many posters feel that Elizabeth has no leg to stand on because she is lying about Jake's paternity. I know I feel that way. Elizabeth and her moral tirades are empty because she is lying about Jake's paternity. So all of her complaining and bitching and "honesty talks" are hypocritical and dead in the water because she is still lying and still weaving her web of lies. Lucky is wrong for sleeping with Sam, just like he was with sleeping with Sarah and Maxie. But that doesn't absolve Liz of her cheating with Jason or her paternity lie nor does it absolve her of her emotional cheating or her make out sessions.

That's actually one of the reasons that I want Lucky away from Liz. When he is around her he is this wimp that believes everything that comes out of that vipers nest of a mouth Elizabeth has. When he isn't around her he is enjoyable and actually seems like a virile man that he once was earlier on in 2005. Guza has hacked him up so badly so that Liz and Jason can look better that I just want him the hell away from her. Lucky is so much more enjoyable away from lying Webber.

What has Elizabeth sacrificed for Lucky? I am at a loss. Perhaps if we were talking about 2006 I could understand that was when I believed that Elizabeth still loved Lucky however 2007 has proved to me that she doesn't love this man at all. Her liasons with Jason prove that, her lying about Jake's paternity proves that, her lies prove that. What has ELizabeth given up for Lucky?

I don't remember Lucky excusing anything. I remember him taking responsibility and going into rehabilation centers to get better and trying to make up for what he did. What did he gfet in return? An unfaithful wife who had another mans baby and then lied about it for over a year and is still lying about it now.

[SeanM]

Yes I saw that too, but they also listed Scott and Mike without the family name. I guess it depends on what idiot is in charge for the end credits for the week. I believe we will see the family names again in the future.

[Wales2004]

I'm having the most problem with what you're saying because you seem to be making their screw ups equivalent and in doing so you are negating the sacrifices required in putting up with a drug addicted cheating husband. Goodness, don't tell me a ONS and a continual ongoing affair are the same thing coupled with the addiction. Don't tell me that Elizabeth didn't go through it when brainwashed Lucky showed up and she tried to help him. You make it sound as if one night with Jason totals up to all the hell Lucky caused whether intentionally or not. Lucky is no saint but it sounds more like Lucky had one slip up and Elizabeth was constantly up to no good. I don't think you should feel bad for her and I feel silly as I type this about a fictional character but to me she's no less sympathetic than he is, if you're doling out sympathy.

The writing indicates to me that she's sacrificing her own happiness for the sake of her children. It doesn't mean that her choices are correct but that she's doing it with them in mind. It's about her doing her parental duty and putting her children's needs ahead of hers, regardless of whether she goes without love or not. Obviously they have her making a bad choice but that's the way they're telling the story.

You must be referring to NS and I can't comment on something I haven't seen except to say that they're all over the map with the writing and lack of logic or consistency at times.

It doesn't matter if Lucky gave her a grand speech or whatever because he subsequently made statements to the contrary. They've since acted as if Lucky would break if he learned the truth and that is the basis for Lulu not telling him on their wedding day and robbing him of the happiness he can apparently only get from being married to Elizabeth. Sure it's a big joke but I'm basing my comments on that. And again Elizabeth is a coward for thinking she can't raise two kids on her own. I don't know why they couldn't have made her stronger about that but if she had been then they wouldn't have this story to tell. This is just a lack of creativity in terms of writing because they could have told this dramatic story without making the characters contradict themselves this much or I should say mainly Elizabeth who changes her mind constantly. She's wishy washy and Lucky is an idiot who is probably going to appear much more stupid in the days to come.

[Wales2004]

Again there's this litany of things Lucky has done or is about to and there are two things Elizabeth has done but she's somehow a horrible person. They're both wrong period. But if you're comparing wrongdoings then Lucky has her outnumbered. He's slept with two women during their marriage and her sister way back when Elizabeth was in love with him.

I'm sure honest Lucky will be better off with another lying woman or is Elizabeth the only woman that lies to him or ever will? How about it was a bad idea to try and recapture a relationship that died years ago just for the sake of dragging it through the mud?

Nothing at all. Apparently trying to stick with a drug addicted adulterous husband isn't hurtful at all and doesn't require sacrificing dignity because when he says sorry that is supposed to fix things. I look at their relationship as a whole and not the last few weeks or months.

He was excusing his adultery beforehand by blaming it on Elizabeth not having sex with him. But since you mention that he went to rehab etc, what should he get in return? Wasn't his addiction and adultery what caused the rift in the first place? Are you suggesting he be rewarded for getting himself back together after he caused so much damage? He got a faithful wife up until the point where he decided to bring his mistress into their home and bed. Please don't tell me that the reward for that is other than the satisfaction of knowing he straightened himself back up. I don't condone Elizabeth's actions but the degree of hatred there is for her versus what appears to be near sainthood for Lucky moves me to be defensive of the character because I don't agree that she is a worse character than Lucky.

[Skin]

I agree with you that they are both wrong. However if we are comparing their crimes I have to say that Elizabeth's paternity lie is worse then any amount of cheating Lucky could ever do to her. Why? Because Lucky has fallen in love with a child that isn't his. He has developed a bond and connection to that child and he has grown a connection to that little boy and truely believes that that boy is his and it was all based on Elizabeth's lie. That is going to shock and hurt Lucky more then anything Lucky could do to her at this time. That is why Elizabeth's paternity lie (along with her ongoing affair with Jason) is what makes her worse then Lucky's infedilites.

I am almost certain that Elizabeth will try and take Jake away from Lucky as soon as the truth comes out that Jake is Jason's son and that will tear Lucky apart his life more then the pills ever could.

Sam actually hasn't been lying to Lucky. Surprisingly Sam has been more honest to Lucky then any one else in his entire life including his ever loving family. Sam has been the one telling Lucky the truth and she hasn't lied to him once. (not counting the Jake parernity lie because she is being blackmailed into that one).

Elizabeth chose to forgive Lucky for what he has done and Lucky has begged on his knees for Elizabeth's forgiveness and has tried to do everything under the son to get her to trust him again. He believed in Elizabeth and has been the perfect husband to her and even put up with her friendship with Jason until he found out that she was unfaithful with him. No. I am saying that ever since Lucky has gotten clean he has done nothing that could even be considered "questionable". He has been faithful, truthful and a great husband yet Elizabeth has been the one in the wrong since then with her paternity lie and unfaithfulness.

I don't think Lucky is saint worthy. But I do think he has been better then Liz lately.

[Cheap21]

Im sorry. I copied and pasted the wrong item. here's what I meant to write

Actually had Maxie been pregnant, she would nto be a priority to him. When she was faking, Lucky didnt really want much to do with her. He used her for te drugs but after that was done, he pulled himself away from Maxie. He favored his child with Liz and blew Maxie off several times for her. Liz pointed it out and Maxie sure did. Maxie just wasnt on the top of his list

[R Sinclair]

There go those strange contradictory principals that totally baffle my ass! :blink:

Sam gets empathy for keeping the paternity lie because she's being blackmailed into it (blackmailed with the information THAT SHE WITNESSED JAKE'S KIDNAPPING AND SAID NOTHING ABOUT IT, mind you). Sam's using Lucky. Sam's trying to break up Lucky's marriage. Sam witnessed Lucky's child get kidnapped. Sam knows the truth about Jake's paternity and SAM STAGED THUGS TO TERRORIZE HIS WIFE AND CHILDREN IN THE PARK... But Liz is a horrid little bitch for keeping the paternity lie all because she's doing a selfish, disgusting thing as worrying about Jake's safety if his true paternity does come out -- which has been beefed up thanks to Sam staging the thugs to terrorize Liz and the kids in the park.

[Wales2004]

Well score one for Lucky. How yucky for a wife to be pregnant at the same time her husband's mistress is as well. At least that went away. But I'm not convinced that Maxie with a baby would have been smooth sailing for Lucky and Elizabeth because how could he ignore distress calls from his child's mother and Maxie would have milked that for all she could.

[Cheap21]

yeah good thing Maxie really wasnt pregnant as that would have definetly caused problems for LnL2. While Lucky didnt get another woman pregnant, Elizabeth did get pregnant by another man. Lucky for her she can lie and hide that and not face the consequences of it, unlike Lucky who couldnt fake things. She has it alot easier

[Wales2004]

And I have to strongly disagree with you because what he did caused constant turmoil and led to physical danger and was potentially dangerous for both children. Her lie is going to emotionally damaging not emotionally and physically damaging as his choices were. Not only did he place the whole family in jeopardy but he subjected them to Maxie, and he demoralized his wife by basically saying his pills and Maxie were more important than she. That was several punches to the gut a day. People get attached to children that are not biologically theirs everyday and that's not a horrible thing. The lie is a horrible thing but you can't honestly say that if Lucky knew that Jake wasn't his that he wouldn't have loved him anyway? Does Cameron ring a bell? Elizabeth robbed him of his choice and is being cruel for keeping him in the dark no matter what her reasons are, but no way does that even come close to what he's done and is doing.

If he tries to take her kids away from her then I don't blame her if she does what she needs to keep them. I wouldn't object to him having visitation rights but not sole custody or shared custody. I personally wouldn't trust a person like Lucky that soon after all that happened. He'd have been on year two begging me.

Being blackmailed doesn't absolve her of lying, it just gives her a reason or excuse for not telling him the truth. Now is someone blackmailing her into not telling that she hired thugs to scare Elizabeth and her children? Uh no. So how is she being more honest? Just because she is upfront about wanting to seducing him doesn't mean she's more honest. And if she hadn't stood there and watch an innocent child be taken in the first place without doing a thing to help, there'd be nothing about which to blackmail her. Please don't try to make her sound like some noble soul because she couldn't be further from it. She's just enabling Lucky's stupidity but let's call her his friend.

How long have they been married and how much of that time was he the perfect husband? He should still be on his knees as far as I'm concerned, but that's me. I might be able to forgive some things but that sounds too dreadful to just forget about like that. Did Mr Truthful come home and tell her he kissed Sam or that he fantasized about sex with her? He seems too insecure and kind of bratty for me to think he has been a great husband and he obviously is lacking in patience at the moment. I don't believe in the insta-good husband after whatever he did and I don't care if she said she forgave him. Trust can be destroyed quickly and takes time to rebuild. If Nikolas pointing out how he destroyed his marriage in round 1 didn't faze him enough to get him back home without stench then how good of a husband is he really. I wish my husband would come to me and tell me that if I don't sleep with him, I'll make him cheat on me. I'd give him the real estate section so he can go hunting for his new place and show him the door.

Really because she sat there and listened to him use her as an excuse to go out and sleep with Sam and she said nothing and will probably bake him some cookies after he comes home with the stench and miraculously dry jeans, yet he's the better person. Go figure.

[Wales2004]

Is it her fault Lucky is a stupid man? BTW being pregnant is a lot tougher and I doubt she will never face the consequences. She will probably end up behind bars since they made a big point of highlighting how she perjured herself unless Ric is either in a generous mood or too preoccupied with daddy problems.

[Cheap21]

Im not talking about pregnancy, Im talking about the aftermath. Elizabeth wont really have to face the consequences of her lie with Lucky as they will be over before that happens thanks to his cheating with Sam. That gave her her free pass

You really think Elizabeth is going to go to jail for perjury? Jason jsut got off on murder and tons of characters have done worse. She should go to jail based on the law, but this is GH and she wont face anytime. I dont think it will really be much of an issue

[Skin]

Sam gets my sympathy for several different reasons. Not all concerning this storyline. But that's neither here nor there. The bottom line is that Sam isn't lying to Lucky. Sam has actually been more honest to him then anyone else in his entire family. That was my point in stating that comment. Do you disagree? It's pretty much a fact that Sam has been the most honest person in Lucky's life.

Sam is using Lucky, Sam is trying to break Lucky's marriage. She is doing all of this. Lucky knows this. He's not a victim here. He knows what Sam is doing and Sam admits to it when he confronts her about it. They are both on equal footing in their relationship sadly that isn't the case with Lucky and lying Webber.

That's not Lucky's kid. That's Jason's kid. Sam did not terrorize anyone. She hired actors to scare Liz that's all. No Elizabeth is doing a horriable selfish thing by lying and telling Lucky that Jake is his son when he isn't. That fact is going to tear him apart more then anything Lucky has ever went through before.

I don't agree.

The fact that you believe that a child is yours and then after two years of beliving that it turns out that it isn't your child is more damaging then anything Lucky could come up with IMO. No one is saying that Lucky wouldn't love Jake because he isn't biologically his. But it would hurt him more then anything. It would tear him out and would hurt him greater then anything he has experienced. His entire foundation of soberity was for that child (his child) his entire reason for getting better was because he wanted to be better. He wanted to be a father to that child and finding out that he isn't the babies biological father would be more hurtful then anything Liz has gone through with Lucky's addiction.

I don't see Sam that way. She is clearly the "villian" in this storyline. I just like the villian who is able to admit she does wrong over the whoring, hypocritical lying Webber.

Did Lying Webber tell Lucky that she is in love with Jason? That she carried his child? That she made out with Jason? A big no to all of the above. Lucky has been more honest with Liz then the former.

That's why Lucky spent the better half of 2006/2007 trying to get Liz to forgive him. All the while she was lying to him.

[Cheap21]

Its not like Elizabeth hasnt done that before. Last summer she was fantasizing about Patrick and didnt tell Lucky. A few months ago when went to bed with Lucky and fantasized about Jason and didnt tell him. And more recently she kissed Jason and didnt tell Lucky. She is guilty with those as well

[Wales2004]

You've gone way beyond my simple little point in that Lucky is not totally truthful or honest. Elizabeth's deceit is not at issue because it's documented and we agree that she's lying and wrong. My comment goes to the fact that Lucky is not the picture of honesty and I don't mean it as a point of comparison but as a stand alone statement.