Why has NBC been such a screw-up in daytime?

[Max]

With the huge anti-NBC sentiment currently being felt by so many folks on this board, I thought it would be a good time to ask this question: just why has NBC screwed up so badly--throughout just about its entire history--with its soap operas?

A little history of NBC Daytime and its screw-ups is below:

1948-62: Since ABC is just a struggling newcomer, there are really only two fully established networks: CBS and NBC. Yet, all of the hit soaps from this period are CBS shows. Promising NBC soaps like From These Roots and Young Doctor Malone are cancelled pre-maturly.

1963-66: This was when NBC's only successful soaps ever--The Doctors, AW, and DOOL--premiered. Yet, during this time NBC nearly screwed up by almost cancelling AW and DOOL (and perhaps The Doctors) during their very early years. (I wonder what it was about NBC during this time that actually caused them to give AW and DOOL second chances despite the low ratings they enjoyed back then.)

Late-1970's: After doing well (for the only time in its history) with its daytime lineup for the past decade, the big three NBC soaps all take huge tumbles in the ratings. While the rise of ABC Daytime really hurt NBC Daytime, that alone cannot explain NBC's troubles since (1) CBS did not experience anywhere near the same ratings drop that NBC did and (2) NBC made stupid decisions of its own such as choosing to expand AW to 90 minutes.

Late-1980's: The quality of NBC Daytime is as strong as ever, as the network aired the critically acclaimed SaBa as well as the very rejuvenated versions of DOOL and AW. Yet, the network is unable to turn this gold mine into a hit lineup.

1999: NBC cancels both AW and SuBe, becomes a network with just a two-soap lineup, and introduces the far inferior Passions.

Circa 2003: NBC mandates that JERk take control of its entire daytime operation, as the network threatens to cancel DOOL unless JERk has complete creative control over that soap.

Of course, most of you already know this history. But, back to the original question of this thread, just why has NBC Daytime screwed up so badly? (Of course, they screwed up so badly because they are incompetent, but I'm looking for an answer that goes deeper than that; in other words, I'd like to know why NBC has almost always been so incompetent.) I've actually given this topic a lot of thought, and I still cannot figure out the underlying reasons as to exactly why NBC has screwed up so badly throughout its history. Further compounding this mystery is the fact that NBC has considerable enjoyed success (throughout much of its history) in its news, primetime, and late-night divisions; with the success of these divisions, you would think that NBC would also have been able to find success with soap operas.

[danthig]

I have wondered about that myself

[JoelMTL]

in 1989, NBC had four soaps on the air : GENERATIONS, DAYS, AW and SANTA BARBARA. I think this is around the time that NBC daytime totally went downhill. They debuted Generations in the 12:30 slot as a direct competitor of the #1 Y&R. In my opinion, Generations was an excellent show. Had it been given more than a year and a half to reel in an audience, I have no doubt it would be a high rated show today. It should have been sandwiched between DAYS and AW instead of being left to open the soaps lineup. Regardless of timeslot though, NBC had no patience. After years of having different head writers (several each year!) they axed AW to make way for Passions. The network shouldn't have played cards with head writers and should have just commited to one team's vision for AW. Sunset Beach was in the same situation as Generations. Three years and it got the ax. Don't put money, time and effort into getting a show off the ground if you don't have the patience to get it running.

[juniorz1]

In a word (er...2): Santa Barbara. I'm not kidding. They never should have cancelled it- instead, they should have put more effort into re-tooling it, got A & Marcy back, and promoted the hell out of their return. I can GUARANTEE that had they held out for the DAYS ratings spike that SB would've spiked along with it. NBC was never the same after 'SB' left the lineup. Honestly, I think 'AW' would have had a better chance of survival with SB on the air as well.

As for Generations, that show never had a chance. They didn't flesh out the characters properly and didn't have a major story to grab viewers that first year. What's sad about 'GEN' is it was the first multi-cultural soap (with core black families) and yet only the white characters caught fire.

After all that, NBC putting out soap 'parodies' (SUN/PSNS) didn't help matters, but they had lost a lot of credibility with their viewers by then IMO.

[Brandeis]

Between what my aunt has told me and what I've seen at WOST, AW was the gold standard for soaps in the 70's and DAYS wasn't far behind. Was it the hubris of Paul Rauch?

I can't believe how beautiful AW was in the 70's and how beautiful its theme was. I can't believe NBC would have thrown it away back then. It had to be idiocy on the part of P&G/Rauch.

[DrewH]

Ahh, Sunset Beach, how I miss you so...

Parody or not, SUN was amazing and is the only soap I would want to come back

[Brandeis]

I'm in complete agreement with this. IN fact I think we might be seeing NBC in No 1 if this had been allowed to happen.

[JoelMTL]

I have to disagree with what you say about Generations. I think the characters were fleshed out and although there was no major story, they had very good multiple stories going on in particular Jessica's alcoholism, crazy Aunt Mary and the extreme racism the Marshall's experienced when they moved to an upper class neighbourhood. The white characters as you say did catch fire more than the black ones but Jonelle Allen as lonely housewife Doreen Jackson who had an affair with Kristoff St. John's Adam gave suberp performances. If the show had been placed between DAYS and AW, it easily would have beat B&B in the ratings over time.

[DH23]

Oh yes ITA 100%! Sunset Beach is still my favorite soap of all time. I get a kick of it when the alums show up on other shows (ie. Kam Heskin - Passions; Christina Chambers - OLTL)

[Brandeis]

Sorry Joel

I hate to say it. Maybe this post belongs on the "unpopular opinions" thread, but my biggest turnoff for GENERATIONS was sitting through the annoyingly long opening credits voiced by Pat Crowley that were the same L O N G thing all the time, same voice, same images. Too much for a half hour show. If I'm not mistaken, all AMC had back then was still the stupid ALL MY CHILDREN book, but it only took about 15 seconds out of a 1 hour show (about 10 times but not all parked at the beginning).

[nassaunew]

I can't answer the question, but GENERATIONS was a great show!

*tear*

[sb84fan]

I still haven't forgiven NBC for cancelling SB!!! NBC also cancelled Search for Tomorrow and Texas. Soaps just don't stand a chance on this network. I don't understand it. I agree with Juniorz1 that SB just needed some fixing and not a whole onslaught of new characters that didn't fit in. NBC was losing money and they didn't want to give it one more chance as they had been threatening cancellation for years. All I can say is that Passions is probably going to be NBC's next fatality.

[SteveFrame]

The biggest problem with NBC in the 50's and 60's was that it had a daytime head who hated Soap Operas. He only put them on because of CBS having them, but he always put them in timeslots that he knew they would fail in. I forgot his name but this is all well documented. If it hadn't been for him From These Roots which is regarded by most critics as one of the best daytime programs of the 50's and early 60's - the show would have last well into the 70's and even 80's. But he did everything he could to cause it to fail.

It wasn't until the mid 60's that they finally set out to make their lineup work and they did. They were finally able to make a dent into CBS's hold on daytime.

Everything started to fall apart in the late 70's though. ABC set out to boost their faltering lineup esp. General Hospital. They stole the writing team of Eileen & Robert Mason Pollock who had made The Doctors such a hit. The Doctors hired the great Douglas Marland and he was doing a great job, but the Pollocks were a failure at GH and they set out to steal Marland and did. Monty & Marland established GH into the show it was to become.

NBC made their biggest mistake when they gave daytime too much of a good thing. AW was their gem. They had even managed to hold on to their great ratings even after losing their #1 stars George Reinholt & Jacqueline Courtney. But then NBC expanded AW to 90 minutes which was way too much. Fans were tuning out in the last 30 minutes or part of the show to watch GH too which was the phenom at the time. Then AW lost Harding Lemay and even though they still had fairly good ratings and stories until about 81 when Days faltered and The Doctors would falter AW started faltering too.

The Doctors was moved to a new time slot due to AW's expansion and it faltered bigggggggggggg time. It would never recover. Also many affiliates didn't like the time slot and quit airing it.

Days had lost it's headwriter William J. Bell in 1975, but his protege Pat Falken Smith had kept up the Bell magic through the end of the 70's. Then they lost her to GH. Days new headwriter (forget the name) decided to fire so many of the characters and actors Days fans knew and loved. This was referred to as the St. Valentine's Day massacre. All these new characters came on and none of them survived or were a hit except for Liz Chandler.

NBC ordered a spinoff of AW at this time but did the stupid thing of putting it opposite GH which was on fire at the time. Texas never had a chance - which wasn't helped by the very untalented and lackluster cast that filled it for the first 6 months. Finally many of the bad ones were written off. Iris was returned to her wicked ways, and the show got lots better. But it never had a chance in the ratings against GH and also GL which was doing good under Douglas Marland at the time.

ONe of the biggest things that hurt NBC was that for the most part they were worried about copying GH too. Instead of keeping each shows individuality they became imitations of GH. That hurt them big time.

Days was taken even more like it when they were able to get Pat Falken Smith back away from GH. She improved the show but she didn't write it the same way that she and Bell had written the show in the 70's. She started the action/adventure thing. She created the DiMera family which were just like the Cassadines she created on GH. The DiMera's were good then though. She backburnered many of the older characters especially Doug & Julie who had been the shows tentpole supercouple since the late 60's. She did do something smart in that she did give some of the older characters stories but her main focus became her new version of Luke & Laura - rebel Bo Brady and innocent teen Hope Williams.

Days rebounded and AW did some too, but neither one of the ever achieved the ratings they got in the 70's. And they never were given back their heart or the identity that they had in the 70's. Both were brand new shows very much in the vein of GH.

The final straw that killed AW in my opinion was when TPTB decided they wanted it to become more like Days with the supernatural and sci fi stuff. That wasn't the type of show that AW was and it ultimately turned many fans off even more, and ultimately led to it's death.

I never have figured out why not just NBC haven't learned that you can't take and pattern your show after another. Why do people want to watch a copy when they can watch the original thing. Each show needs to keep it's heart and it's identity and make itself unique.

William J. Bell knew that. He never let Y&R slip into becoming like GH when it was at it's most popular period, and he never bought into the sci fi thing when Days made it popular. All the other shows did. After the possession and all it seemed like every show had to get into those type of stories for awhile. Bell didn't let Y&R drift like the other shows did. And Y&R came out on top and have stayed there.

I may comment some more later, but that is for the most part.

My last thing I will say is that I never bought the Sunset Beach love. There were a few good things about it, but Santa Barbara was ten times the show that Sunset Beach ever was. And Generations was a good show too, but I did hate the opening. Generations time slot hurt it alot. Here where I am from it aired opposite Y&R and AMC which were both hot at the time.

[PhoenixRising05]

I totally agree about SB. If it was around during Days' ratings spike, I think things would be much different.

I miss Sunset too and AW. AW was finally getting back to what works and Sunset was so creative, entertaining, and original.

[tylerbo20]

i think days should move to an hour and a half if they cancell passions