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Another World Question

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  • Member

Back in '98-'99 or so prior to AW's cancellation, wasn't NBC trying to play mindgames with the fanbases of both AW and SuBe? Didn't it threaten to pit the fanbases against each other, even though there were many who enjoyed both shows? (and signed the petitions too)

Sunset Beach was a soap I did enjoy, because at best it could be very entertaining. But it also suffered from very uneven writing. At best it was a nice mix of camp and traditional soap- they had everything from the realistic to supernatural. However, its production values were excellent- location shots and all. It didn't help that it aired against top-rating soaps in most markets, and wasn't aired at all in others.

Days, AW and SuBe were all so different to each other yet so very worthy in their own way- that made a neat lineup. If only TPTB at NBC had their heads screwed on, it might have worked.

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  • Member

IMO, SuBe's primary ratings problem was NBC's scheduling. I've read many sources that state, while NBC had already ended the practice of requiring affiliates to air daytime programming at specific times and let the affiliates do whatever with them, the "official" timeslot for SuBe was noon - 1pm in hopes of drawing some early Days viewers. If that were the case, you would've thought that NBC would have learned their lesson over the years. They've NEVER had a successful soap airing at 12:30 and the last soap they had on at noon was 'The Doctors' (and we know what happened to that soap's ratings when NBC moved it there, they were nearly cut in half and the show was cancelled not long afterwards). NBC affiliates had SuBe all over their schedules. Locally, I get 2 NBC affiliates. One aired the program at 9am. The other at 1pm (at the time, this affiliate aired AW at 10am and Days at 11am. I personally loved this!). True, NBC re-aired SuBe as part of it's Late Night programming for a while, but it just wasn't enough. I know both local NBC affiliates dropped SuBe months before the series finally ended. NBC mismanaged that one BIG TIME.

  • Member
Believe it or not, I think that Susan Lee gets a little too much blame when it comes to how NBC cancelled both AW and SuBe. I actually believe that these decisions (as well as the disgraceful way NBC handled them) came from her higher-ups at NBC.

I still think she's a piece of work(to put it nicely).

Remember when Jonathan Reiner was doing the online stuff for TV Guide Soaps? He did an interview with her that was a fluff piece that was meant to make us feel sorry for her. WHAT-EVER.

Susan Lee recieving death threats and stalker-ish e-mails is wrong, but the scorn she has had to face from fans should have been expected. Especially since her fingers in were the pie during JFP's EP run at AW and Charlotte Savitz's run at AW also.

She's just a cocky !@#$%^&*]. Every interview and quote I've read from her just reads like that.

Hopefully, she's scraping gum off of someone's shoes.

  • Member

I've seen the ratings for the week of Luke & Laura's wedding on GH in 1981- it was a week of not only GH but total ABC domination with AMC and OLTL getting into the 10s. Even RH and EON got higher ratings than usual- in fact, that very week EON was above every NBC soap :o So it's clear that the rise to dominance of ABC Daytime in the period 1978-82 was likely a factor in NBC's collapse.

(It's as if the week of Luke & Laura's wedding had everyone tuning into ABC throughout the day, with GH being the "main meal" and all its other soaps being "entrees" or "desserts" :lol: )

Ratings 4 years later in 1985, however, showed that Days had shot up to 5th and AW would sometimes go as high as 8th- a miraculous recovery for both soaps if you could call it that. Meanwhile at ABC, Ryan's Hope was steadily declining after 1982 but took a big plunge after it moved timeslot- and Loving's own ratings improved with the move.

CBS on the other hand was seemingly steady comes as steady goes despite the odd tinkering, having a steady format of three hour-long shows and one half-hour show and all rating at least decently at the time.

  • Member

In 1980, one of the big factor in AW's rating decline was Days drop in ratings. AW was still pretty good that year, but Days was terrible. If people think Reilly's last stint was bad, they should have watched 1980 on Days. Days fired so many of their cast at the first of the year, and then filled the screen with all kinds of new characters that never caught on. Within a year or so all of them were gone except for Liz Chandler (played by Gloria Loring).

Days was lead-in to AW in most areas, and people quit watching Days to turn into AMC and just continued into OLTL instead of changing the dial back to NBC. I know that alot don't see that but it happens alot. A good lead-in helps any show.

  • Member

Lead-ins and follow-ups tend to- no doubt a main reason for B&B's success (and why it enjoyed decent ratings from the start) is because of it being sandwiched between Y&R and ATWT.

But when you look at the catastrophic state of affairs at NBC Daytime between 1980 and 1982, what factors were key in both Days and AW making a recovery (partial though it may have been) by the middle of the decade? For Days of course it was supercouples like Bo & Hope, and the "Slasher" and "Stalker" storylines.

  • Member

SUPERCOUPLES and the pursuit of supercouples have been what has killed soaps, IMO.

And no, I'm not blaming DAYS or GH, though they are the biggest offenders. Or maybe the biggest offenders are all the others who should have been trying for their own identity all these years.

  • Member
SUPERCOUPLES and the pursuit of supercouples have been what has killed soaps, IMO.

And no, I'm not blaming DAYS or GH, though they are the biggest offenders. Or maybe the biggest offenders are all the others who should have been trying for their own identity all these years.

Are you talking recent times, or at the height of that "phenomenon" in the 80s during which GH and then Days prospered out of it? Remember that the changes Gloria Monty and Douglas Marland instituted in the late 70s saved GH, and the above-mentioned storylines and couples were instrumental in turning Days around.

  • Member

Yes that saved those shows then, but the fan bases that they created are what is ruining the shows now. And not just those 2 but all others. Days is really experiencing trouble from them. With the creation of the super couple the show because about them and not about the ensemble. Now people watch for their couple, and only for their couple. And in many ways GH and Days are responsible. As much as Monty saved GH, in many ways she ruined daytime. Because she created a formula that every producer and every writer has tried to follow since then - filling their shows with super couples and action/adventure, and over the top villians. All the other shows lost any kind of separate identity, and many them lost a lot of what they were before.

And now the bad thing is that budgets are down, and there is not the big money to do the big action/adventure stories around the big super couples, and the fans want it. But they can't get it.

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  • Member
I still think she's a piece of work(to put it nicely).

Remember when Jonathan Reiner was doing the online stuff for TV Guide Soaps? He did an interview with her that was a fluff piece that was meant to make us feel sorry for her. WHAT-EVER.

Susan Lee recieving death threats and stalker-ish e-mails is wrong, but the scorn she has had to face from fans should have been expected. Especially since her fingers in were the pie during JFP's EP run at AW and Charlotte Savitz's run at AW also.

She's just a cocky !@#$%^&*]. Every interview and quote I've read from her just reads like that.

Hopefully, she's scraping gum off of someone's shoes.

She was fired from NBC on the eve of AW's one year anniversary of AW's finale. Infact, none of the execs who help JER's Passions concept work at NBC anymore!

Oh, and thanks for everyone's thoughts and comments, especially to Steve Frame. I'll try and get around to a full reply later this week hopefully.

  • Member
Lead-ins and follow-ups tend to- no doubt a main reason for B&B's success (and why it enjoyed decent ratings from the start) is because of it being sandwiched between Y&R and ATWT.

But when you look at the catastrophic state of affairs at NBC Daytime between 1980 and 1982, what factors were key in both Days and AW making a recovery (partial though it may have been) by the middle of the decade? For Days of course it was supercouples like Bo & Hope, and the "Slasher" and "Stalker" storylines.

I agree here too, and I think part of the reason behind Y&R's dominance over the other soaps in both quality and ratings over the past 20 years has to do with the fact it never followed the formula pioneered by GH and Days. Whereas all the other soaps, even AMC (which had a socially-relevant upbringing), jumped on the bandwagon and it hurt them tremendously in the long-run.

  • Member

I know what you're all saying, indeed it's exactly what B&B is going through right now. Some panned Y&R for killing off Cassie, but the storyline enabled the writers to show the reality of death and how it affects a family, as well as highlight the impact of irresponsible behaviour on many people. We have rabid fanbases demanding characters be brought back, or killed off, as well as trying to force the shows' hand regarding couples. And that's what's doing a great deal of harm to Daytime.

When we look back at things, Days turned the corner with the above-mentioned storylines and couples, whereas AW saw an almost complete turnover in the makeup of the show with new characters like Donna, Felicia, Cass, Wallingford, the twins Vicky and Marley arriving on the scene during the 1980s.

If you compare seasonal ratings fron 1982-83 and 1983-84, Days jumped from 8th place and 5.7 to 7th place and 7.1 whilst AW jumped from 10th place and 4.8 to 9th place and 5.6- and I've seen weekly ratings where either or both shows were rating even higher. Those numbers remained fairly stable for most of the decade, coupled with Santa Barbara's improving ratings. The only question left is, when NBC was so nearly getting it right with its Daytime lineup, why didn't it work out in the end.

  • 2 months later...
  • Member

Not sure if I should've dragged this one up, but I managed to put together (courtesy of soapoperahistory.com) schedules for NBC soaps. Here goes:

1974-75

1:30-2:00pm: How to Survive a Marriage*

2:00-2:30pm: Days of Our Lives

2:30-3:00pm: The Doctors

3:00-3:30pm: Another World

(3:30-4:00pm: How to Survive a Marriage)*

1975-79

(12:30-1:00pm: Lovers and Friends)

(1:00-1:30pm: For Richer, For Poorer)**

1:30-2:30pm: Days of Our Lives

2:30-3:00pm: The Doctors

3:00-4:00pm: Another World

1979-80

1:00-2:00pm: Days of Our Lives

2:00-2:30pm: The Doctors

2:30-4:00pm: Another World

1980-82

12:30-1:00pm: The Doctors

1:00-2:00pm: Days of Our Lives

2:00-3:00pm: Another World

3:00-4:00pm: Texas

1982

as 1980-82 except for:

11:00-12:00pm: Texas

12:00-12:30pm: The Doctors

12:30-1:00pm: Search for Tomorrow

1983-93

12:30-1:00pm: Search for Tomorrow (cancelled in 1986)

12:30-1:00pm: Generations (1988-91)

1:00-2:00pm: Days of Our Lives

2:00-3:00pm: Another World

3:00-4:00pm: Santa Barbara

1993-99

1:00-2:00pm: Days of Our Lives

2:00-3:00pm: Another World

3:00-4:00pm: Sunset Beach (1997-99)

1999:

1:00-2:00pm: Days of Our Lives

2:00-3:00pm: Passions

* How to Survive a Marriage change timeslot in January 1975, and was cancelled with Days expanding to an hour in April of that year

**FRFP was essentially a relaunched L&F. Created by Rauch and Lemay, it was an abysmal failure even by today's standards

In contrast, ABC Daytime's lineup in 1981:

12:30-1:00pm: Ryan's Hope

1:00-2:00pm: All My Children

2:00-3:00pm: One Life to Live

3:00-4:00pm: General Hospital

4:00-4:30pm: The Edge of Night

And CBS's lineup at that time:

12:30-1:30pm: Young & the Restless

1:30-2:30pm: As The World Turns

2:30-3:00pm: Search for Tomorrow

3:00-4:00pm: Guiding Light

  • Member

This thread kind of makes me sad and bitter. I'm still pissed over AW's cancellation, 7 years later! It would've been a great balance to have this show currently sandwiched between Days and Passions. NBC and P&G really screwed themselves over with this decision. AW was still winning acting Emmys during it's final years, look at NBCD now - it's considered a joke!

AW wasn't in the best shape in its final years, but given some time, it could've turned around. P&G and NBC didn't give it a chance, they canceled it 8 months into Chris Goutman's tenure as EP, when it was still in transition.

  • Member
I will disagree with you about the end. I loved the last year or so of the show. I felt it was really gaining momentum and turning itself around again. It was just a little too late I guess. Still I would gladly take it over most shows today.

I loved the last year of Another World also. I thought it was excellent!

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