P.J.

ugh...that name make my jaw clench. Katie---aka FlufferNutter. Exhaustion is an apt description. I at least stuck with their story until, gosh, the 2003? wedding. The one where they ended up honeymooning in San Cristobel, and they didn't even get to honeymoon in peace.

I think every show had that woman, the one every man just found fascinating. GL had Reva, Y&R had Nikki and Cricket, ATWT had Lily.

I guess my main critique of the "friendship" is that it tilts heavily in Reva's favor. Some of that is due to timing (as Reva's dead when Billy starts up drinking), but Billy's constantly her cheerleader. I know she rarely had a close woman friend to confide in (other than Abby, I could only remember her sisters.) While she and Vanessa are usually on good terms, (which is it's own WTF) I wouldn't call them close. I think Billy was just as guilty of seeing the Reva he wanted as opposed to who Reva was. He was hung up on "fun" Reva. (Nadine is the knockoff version.) SeriousReva need not apply. I think Billy always measured himself by HB and Josh. He wanted to fill HB's shoes, but he knew HB admired Josh's independent streak. So Billy came up short both ways.

LOL...that might've made sense re: Jon. You just know if the show had continued, they'd have found a way to give Reva some Amish kid. Or have another half-sibling of Billy's show up in town for Reva to swoon over.

the Kelly/Nola reveal seemed to go on forever, and was so delicious! GL completely chickened out and made them "friends" after that. Billy always should've had a certain level of disdain for that woman. But because only "bad" people would hate Reva (no matter how much [!@#$%^&*] she pulled)...*sigh* Ditto on ME. I can appreciate how much he grew, but he was written more like Josh's kid than Billy's.

I just didn't know.

Wait....what? Any idea why his papers are at Wisconsin?

Kelly and Morgan were on again/off again. They had sex shortly after she arrived in town , but she runs away and then gets raped. Nola manipulated Morgan while she's dealing with the trauma, and then slid into Kelly's bed.

I don't think Newman/Zimmer lacked chemistry, I think Reva/Josh was the same old story. Josh always ended up looking like a fool for falling for Reva's lies, then he'd fall for someone crazy and realized Reva's craziness was a lot more manageable. I think the difference between Billy and Josh was that no matter how big an [!@#$%^&*] Billy was being, you wanted to hug him. When Josh was an [!@#$%^&*], you wanted to slap him.

I can't speak for everyone, but as a preteen, it was Nola/Kelly/Morgan that got me hooked on GL. Granted, I probably didn't even understand what "chemistry" was, and maybe it was more the chemistry between the three of them that sold the story, but there had to be something there that drew people in. Of course, now I'm a little creeped out by the optics of it. lol And while we couldn't listen to GL, I definitely remember one of my classmates having a boombox and a bunch of us listening to Y&R over lunch.

Rebecca said they'd been trying to cast Trish for a while, and Betty Rea found her in CA and asked her to audition. She got the job and then shared a dressing room with Maeve. She and Jane started within a few weeks of each other, but the Andy story was wrapping up, so maybe they couldn't wait. Then again, maybe Jane wasn't interested in that role, and Doug came up with something she was. I know I've heard her say she was most proud of Carrie, because it challenged her as an actress. While Jane would've been completely wrong for the part, the idea of Jane and Jordan Clarke arguing in scenes fascinates me.

I just watched an older Locher room interview with Rebecca Hollen/Robert Newman/Krista T where Rebecca says she thinks DM wanted Jane Elliot for the role of Trish. The mind boggles. Jane would be completely wrong for the role as written. I can't see her fitting into the Lewises at all.

More 1981 *squeeeee* eeeee*

Man, I love me some early Ross/Vanessa! With apologies to Jane Elliot, I think Jerry and Maeve have more chem.

I did ask, but later found confirmation that it was 6/24. I'm not sure why there seems to be a discrepancy with the German episode dates. At some point, I'll try to dig into it a bit more. Yikes...I know Vanessa's a manipulative bitch at this point, but I'd never seen Maeve have anti-chemistry with anyone before.

I actually thought the timing for recasting Blake worked. Both as a soft reset for the character and a fitting end for Stringfield. Sherri deserved to play that climax after all her hard work. And honestly, I'm not sure I could've ever believed her falling in love with Ross knowing she set it up to hurt Holly.

I don't think the problem with Blake was Liz Keifer. Admittedly, she wasn't Sherri Stringfield, but those come few and far between. (We're not talking about a drop off similar to Melina Kanakaredes and Jennifer Rozelle, IMO) GL stopped writing rounded characters. Roger departed, so she wasn't daddy's little girl, she wasn't working (that I recall, other than the stupid romance writer) and she suddenly had three kids. And they completely lost interest in her after Ross's death. Didn't she spend a year in a coma?

eeee....I have read recaps about it, but I haven't watched that at all. There's a moment before the custody's resolved where he's having a court visit with Peter at Vanessa's, and he taunts her with "we could solve all of this---by getting married." and Van looks like she wants to throw up. I know it gets uglier with Ross and Vanessa once Dinah hits town. At some point, I did realize that Ross and Vanessa deal the most with Roger after his return. Everyone else capable of throwing up roadblocks, Phillip, Alex, Billy, Josh (who, let's face it, isn't a threat anyway) tap out at some point from '90 to '95-ish.

There's no need to be sheepish. I'm a tad obnoxious about Billy/Vanessa, but I've rediscovered my love of them/Maeve/GL in general in the last six months or so. I know Vanessa/Matt had their fans, and Maeve's said she got plenty of fan mail from people who connected with Vanessa picking up her life and moving on. I'm actually glad to have found so much Billy/Vanessa online. They kind of predate VCRs, fandoms and squish names. Hell, they don't even really have a special song that's identified with them. It is what I envy the Matt fans---that story is probably almost all online.

I just wish they'd found someone with some soap cred to pair with Maeve. Not someone with "himbo" as his wheelhouse. I don't know who else was available in '94-'95 (and honestly, for all I care, they could've blown up Ross/Blake and given Ross/Vanessa a real shot finally) but there had to be SOMEONE. LOL...as I was watching the custody battle, and suddenly Josh is all intense and defending Vanessa, and pissed at Ross ...I'm like---geez, OMG, would they have gone there? They were already taking enough heat for hooking up Roger and Holly at the time, so I don't know if they would've crossed that line. As much as Reva, Blake and Harley slept through families, it's not like GL didn't know how to write it. Vanessa always did have a blind spot when it came to her kids. She's always quick to defend Bill from any criticism, and she keeps defending WM's Dinah to the point of enabling her behavior. If there was anyone she'd really unleash on, it was a guy. Her fights with Billy could be brutal, and the best moment in the entire Vanessa/Fletch relationhip (imo) is when she rears up and tells him to never EVER make her chose between him and her son, 'cause Fletch ain't winning. Vanessa and Mindy were always close, but as Vanessa would swing in and out of Lewis sphere when not married to Billy. I watched her giving birth to Maureen, and while Josh and Reva finally show up as she's about to die (which really seemed like mostly an excuse for Dinah to bitch at Reva about Cassie), she's got flippin' Jenna moaning in her ear about their precious friendship. I'm like bisch, step back, you're boring the woman to death. Lonitrat? Is that when they were gaslighting Roger? Seriously---about the only people in town not involved were the Coopers. Even Tangie took a side (I'm not sure why, but she was on Vanessa's.) YES! another Ross/Vanessa fan. Maeve's smile always seemed a little more sparkly if she were smiling at Jerry or Jordan. Her face just lights up. I get a little sad thinking of GL at the end--it's like we only got Vanessa back because Ross died.

God Bless Jerry!! Talk about a class act.

yeah, just pretty much anything you can define. I've recently discovered I'm not fond of Fiona Hutchinson and her irritating accent, but that wasn't exactly a story. lol. Most stories at least have some promise to them--I know The Fishing Picture story gets hammered, but I give it points for being a huge umbrella story that didn't overly rewrite established history (Brandon had never been a huge character on the show, he's mostly the off-screen big bad that the Spauldings blamed for their dysfunction.) Obviously even when shows honored their history, they tweaked them. The way Henry talks about Brandon, you wonder why he ever considered them "friends". And somehow, I think Alexandra started out as Alan's older sister, but in the '89 stuff, Alan talks about protecting his younger sister from Brandon's rages.

I had not seen them since they aired! I've really always considered myself more of an ATWT fan, and I while I remembered the broadstrokes of what went on, I had forgotten so many of the details. And some of the early 80's stuff I'd never, ever seen because I was in school. God bless utube. I'd listen to any of them talk about anything from back in the day. I was so sad we'll never get Lisa/Michael/Maeve talking about the early 80's. I'll have to check and see if they did one about Jerry verDorn.

Challenge accepted: Dolly Chelsea's stalker The Dreaming Death San Cristobell Jeffrey O'Neill Reva the Amish Ben Reade Serial Killer Cyrus Paul Valere Infinity disHM, the two plots with Carrie Nye, the ridiculous Cottage from Hell and the mega-history rewrite of Billy/Josh/Buzz/Ed/Alan's pasts.

And yet, it was better than the years of San CristoHELL. A low bar, to be sure...