Khan

Poor COLBYS. The show had so much star power, and their production values made DYNASTY's look like THE WALTONS', but their scripts were just junk.

Like @te. said, though, CBS was still desperate to try, because FOX managed to score key demographic wins with MP and 90210 while CBS's own fortunes remained in the toilet. They might have scored a hit, too, if their efforts hadn't been so abysmal.

I feel like that line (of Sarah's) about people who write about women falling in love with their captors was some sort of meta-comment on similar stories frequently occuring on soaps. Say what you will about Rauch-era OLTL, but whenever it came to terror and suspense, he and his team delivered.

I wonder if "Renee" will host some shindig at Horton Town Square where she'll get to tell everyone that "RENEE DIMERA IS ALIVE!!" again?

KL's later seasons (with the Lechowicks as producers and show-runners) don't share the nuances that earlier, better-produced seasons gave us. Before, Gary and Val weren't just star-crossed lovers; and Karen wasn't just the resident Pollyanna. Things were much more complex than that. But, it seems, the Lechowicks, as talented as they might have been in terms of turning suspense up a notch or two in stories, also struggled in writing these characters with depth. Which is why, in recent years, I've gained a new respect for S14, because it seems like it was the first season in a long while to treat the characters as something other than plot pieces or avenues to spout off pseudo-witty dialogue or ponderous monologues about this-or-that societal ill. (If I never hear Mack recite that damn poem about children again....!)

Man, I hate how Stephen Burleigh (ex-Ray Conway) kept getting wasted in dead-end roles. Not the world's greatest actor, but definitely someone I wouldn't have minded seeing in a regular, "good guy" part that didn't end either with him dead or leaving town.

B&B: Gloria Loring (ex-Liz, DAYS) as the original Beth Logan.

I feel like the only reason why that scene was even written was because someone at ABC thought it'd be awesome to see the two female titans of daytime, (The Pop-Cultural Icon Forever Known As) Erica Kane and (The Pop-Cultural Icon Formerly Known As) Laura Spencer, go at each other.

In retrospect... 1. The end of Jill should have been the moment when Gary and Val finally reconciled. Ben was gone. Abby had moved on. Jill had died, failing in her mission to make Gary and Val's lives hell forever. It all should have ended with Gary and Val retying the knot (no pun intended); and if it meant the two had to move out of Knots Landing and seek their "happily ever after" in parts elsewhere? Well, as much as I would have hated to see Ted Shackelford and Joan Van Ark leave the show, it also would've been for the best. Because, what did we get instead? Danny Waleska, and Val's ridiculous "brain virus": two stories that only served to make Val, in particular, look like a bigger sap than ever. 2. I don't know what the show gained by resurrecting Val in the series' finale. David Jacobs and Ann Marcus might have agreed with Karen that Gary and Val were a forever kind of couple, but Karen also believed that Diana was a pretty, pretty princess, who was seduced by that awful Chip Roberts, because she was so young and so innocent and didn't know any better. And Gary and Kate's relationship might have been rushed, but at least it didn't feel like a regression for Gary the way Val's return and their quick reunion did (again, in retrospect). If KL had wanted to acknowledge Gary and Val's history in some way at the end, they could have had Val appear to Gary in spirit form instead and urge him to propose to Kate.

Was she right to terrorize Val the way she did? No. Forcing a woman to kill herself is NEVER okay. But, my God, could you BLAME the woman for hating Val so? I mean, all Val had to do was cut her finger on the can opener, and here comes Gary to the rescue! And it definitely didn't help to have people like Mack and Karen, proclaiming Gary and Val's to be the Most Fantastic Love Story Ever Told. Because, ladies and gentlemen, their twisted saga doesn't even come close!

I don't think the Lechowicks ever planned that far ahead. But they were right about "the first Mrs. Ewing" never going away, lol. That's the thing about Gary and Val: theirs was clearly a toxic, co-dependent relationship. Gary, to Val, was like a bottle to liquor to Gary. Most could probably see as much, but very few rational individuals had the guts to say it. The ONLY one who could articulate it without coming across like a total psycho was Ben -- and I feel like there came a point when he just resigned himself to that fact and made the best of his and Val's marriage (affair/flirtation with Cathy notwithstanding).

You've taken a peek at his story projections, haven't you?

Agree. Maybe Dorian could have surprised everyone (including herself) by siding with Andrew over her own daughter in the ensuing divorce. Maybe Viki could have struggled with remaining neutral while supporting all three (Andrew, Cassie and Kevin). Maybe Viki could have begged Dorian not to turn her back on Cassie, who was remained torn between her desire for Kevin and her desire to remain married to Andrew; reminding Dorian that there are no winners in situations such as these. Dorian could have accused Viki of hoping secretly that Cassie ended up with Kevin, and Viki could have insisted that she wanted what was best for all concerned, regardless of the outcome. But seriously, I don't think the show ever played up the fact that Dorian's son-in-law was a minister properly. As far as everyone in Llanview was concerned, Dorian Lord was the Wicked Witch of the North, South, East AND West; and now she's got a reverend in her family??

I gotta admit, @Franko, I have a hard time imagining Mari Lynn back with a Southern accent, lol. I think I would have brought KDP on instead as Asa's long-lost daughter - perhaps, the result of a fling with one of Renee's "girls"? - and Bo and Clint's newly found half-sister. (Eons ago, when the story about David Vickers' true paternity was still on, I wanted very much for Dorothy Lyman to play his mom, Emma Vickers. Lyman had been on OLTL before, back in the '70's; but as much as I STILL. HATE. bringing back performers in new and unrelated roles, I made a rare exception in her case...and I'd make the exception again. I'd bring Lyman on -- this time, in a recurring capacity, as Virginia, or "Ginny," Asa's ex-fling/Renee's former "employee"/"Betsy's" mother.) That way, you would have had an addition to the Buchanan clan that would have opened up more story avenues for the Buchanan men; Asa, in particular, would have had a daughter whom he'd be immediately protective of. "Betsy," short for Elizabeth, could have had a background as a country singer, which would have provided more opportunities for KDP to sing on the show. (I know they gave her, as Blair, several opportunities to perform, but for some reason, it never made sense to me that Blair could suddenly sing when I don't remember Mia Korf's Blair having that same ability.) And yes, you STILL could have had the relationship with Todd - I can already picture Todd, flush with Lord family cash, using part of his fortune to bolster Betsy's singing career, and the conflicts that causes between him, Asa, Bo and Clint - but I would have brought back Dan Wolek as well for a triangle with Betsy and Todd*, thereby bringing the Woleks back into prominence, and putting Asa and Larry at constant odds as fathers-in-law. (*Which could have expanded to a quadrangle with the introduction and arrival of Todd's scheming adoptive half-sister and Peter Manning's biological daughter.)

Okay, so I flew off the handle. What can I say? I’ve had a rough time of it lately; and for whatever reason, @Vee touched a nerve with me last night. Still, that’s no excuse. I behaved like a jackass, pure and simple. To @Vee and to everyone else on the board — well, ALMOST everyone else — I offer my humblest, sincerest apology. Come back at me after you’ve cleared up your syphilis, k?

#shrug By the way, I'm done with this board -- and this time, I will not be back.

Fine. I stand corrected. Craig Carlson wrote for LB's Cassie (for awhile) during the very final days of Rauch and during that week or so when Charlotte Weil was producing OLTL on her own as well. But "Incident at Loon Lake" WAS early Malone/Gottlieb. That's my bone of contention.

Look, @Vee, you've said so yourself: you started watching OLTL in '93, long after these stories were over. I'm older than you, and I watched OLTL (and followed all the latest in all the soap mags) a lot sooner than you did. So, with all due respect, shut the [!@#$%^&*] up. Rauch hired her, but neither he nor Carlson/DePriest/Laiman wrote for her. Michael Malone wrote for her first, starting with those scenes between her and Bo and the aforementioned meet-cute. How do I know? Because I was watching the show -- WHEN YOU WEREN'T -- and I was reading all about it (and the other shows at that time) in three different soap magazines.

Just as long as we don't have Wes Ramsey come back as yet another fraternal twin of Jason, Franco and Drew's. I mean, I can't keep 'em straight anymore, lol!

Amen! Y&R was BUILT on the idea of the haves versus the have-nots. It's time they get back to their roots.

I'm just glad they're recasting. To me, it seemed like TPTB were holding onto Hunter King (even though, IMO, she was awful) because letting her go would have looked bad in light of the Muhney thing.

No. I distinctly remember Malone (or Gottlieb) telling one interviewer how they were paying homage to APITS with Alex and Cassie in the lake (even though APITS was about a social-climbing jerk who drowned his homely, pregnant gf in the lake so he could be with Elizabeth Taylor). And I distinctly remember, too, watching Bo and Cassie's meet-cute scene (where Cassie's suitcase accidentally opens in front of Bo and all her underwear falls out) and hating Malone's work already. (He also wrote the scenes where Cord and Tina suddenly turn the tables on "Hudson King" -- a.k.a. Cain Rogan -- and I thought I would get whiplash from watching them, lol.)

Didn't Crystal Gayle (or her handlers) tell TPTB that she wouldn't appear on the show unless she had more to do than just show up and sing? Between Crystal Gayle (with Gary Morris) and Ronnie Milsap, it seems like AW was making a big push for the "Urban Cowboy" crowd, lol. That sequence was almost Hitchockian in how it stayed with Jill and Val throughout. I mean, you try devoting almost a half-hour to two characters on a network show nowadays and see how far you get, lol.

Yup. She went from another easily disposable DAYS bimbo to someone I wished was given more to do.

Didn't Alan kill Ray when the latter was beating up on Rhonda? IIRC, Alan threw Ray off Rhonda; Ray fell back into some window and he died. I also recall - for some strange reason - that that (the Alan/Rhonda flirtation) was the story where we had to endure Stuart Damon wearing western clothes and learning to line dance, lol.