EricMontreal22

Yeah, I know we've all covered the heavy exposition issue but it remains an issue for me. So much of the dialogue plays really well and then it just comes to a thud. I was looking back at early/first episodes of other soaps and none of them seemed this bad in that respect (ya ya I get that it's a different day and age, etc, although that also means that if people are curious about how characters are related and other issues, they could go to a well designed webpage.) Even on Monday when Nicole called Dani "little sister" at one point (and yes, I get that maybe they have a relationship where she always calls her little sister) it sounded forced to me. I have a twin sister who I never ever ever would call "twin sister" when talking to her. The Dana and Eva exposition dump scene also had these issues for me and just needed a bit more finessing because as it played I kept thinking "why is Dana telling her daughter all of this stuff NOW, especially since it's clear she already knows it? Isn't there some better way to incorporate this info into the dialogue" because as it was written it sounded like when a villain reveals their secret plan for the first time--and yet none of this was new info to Eva. (To be fair, that kind of writing isn't new to soaps--it's very Jim Reilly in fact, I just think this show doesn't suit that style and I don't like it )

I fully agree with all of these points (and have to say yes again about the men's haircuts-- I know it's much harder with men in general to do, but when each of the female characters seems to have such a distinct "take" to their hair, so much so that you can almost identify them by their hair alone, and of course the women also have relatively distinctive clothing looks, the men--especially when all wearing the same basic suit for a wedding--are much harder to distinguish.) They really should have decided against the baby in the elevator plot. I get that it was to have Ashley and Andre share an experience, but not only was it hackneyed, it was too soon for those characters if they were going to do it at all. I still want more of a sense of how Ashley knows these various characters (like did Andre even know her before he got back from Belize or wherever--actually I still have no idea why he was scouting the hospital--repeatedly--for photo locations anyway when Nicole's practice isn't there...) She doesn't seem to have come from money whatsoever, so where's the connection especially given they apparently double date at that bar regularly? Sure these are plot points that normally I'd sayyou can slowly reveal--but if you're going to do that, then don't throw the character into islanded random storylines beforehand (it's late, I'm not sure I'm even making sense anymore )

I've been out of touch about a lot of the creation of this show--I knew that Guza was on board as co (or associate?) HW so wasn't surprised to see his name today just below MVJs but did do a double take when I saw Ron C's. Honestly, I paid zero attention and knew nothing of his writing before he became a HW at OLTL so I don't know if he has a good rep for breakdown writing or anything (to use an example, I think very very lowly of Jean Passanante as a HW but she had a stellar reputation as a breakdown writer, notably I think during the first Gottlieb/Malone era at OLTL--so much so that she was the main teacher of how to do a breakdown when ABC had their daytime writer training program.) I suspect last week was largely the sample scripts too (adjusted of course.) Didn't one interview with MVJ say that because there hadn't been a new soap in so long, MVJ had no soap bibles to use as examples (which seemed odd to me given that I actually have copies of a number of classic soap bibles) and so didn't create a traditional one if any? At any rate, I believe the main technique with soap bibles was to provide, alongside them, a certain number of daily breakdowns as well as the first week of scripts. Will they use her longterm as a viewer recap character? Obviously her gossiping in this episode didn't really serve that function I don't think, since anyone tuning in for the first time today wouldn't have any idea who any of the names were, but Agnes Nixon used to always talk about "recap characters" who are largely there to have conversations explaining what viewers who missed a week might need to know. 100% Now Erica pulling a gun on someone in a PRIVATE situation she set them up in might make sense, but otherwise it's not an Erica move at all (even in her substance abusing phases...)

It IS refreshing to see the white characters primarily serve the "best friend" etc role--I feel kinda ashamed admitting this but for me, it's one of those things I had never really thought about until you see something different. If that makes sense. Dani and Pamela at the bar REALLY was a waste I think--I know they want to have a lot of action right now, but I think Dani could have cooled her heels at the bar a BIT longer before immediately going to her family (but at least Pamela acknowledged that very fact in her dialogue--pointing out she hadn't even had a drink, etc.) I'm catching up on what I can on ALL the talk here about the show (I only got caught up on Sunday) and I get the sense people are mostly really loving the sets. I'm really on the fence about them--they just don't feel at all lived in to me yet (and true, for some of the characters I suppose this makes sense but you can look like you have a rich house but still one that is a home.) THAT said, I haven't liked the sets on ANY of the US Daytime soaps in well over a decade (WELL over a decade) and by those standards I mostly like the sets...

I'll have to investigate and like I said, I didn't get much from Corley about it--but that wasn't the focus of my interview anyway. My impression was he was happy to be working with Broderick and FMB after what had happened at AMC and enjoyed the brief time there, but (and again this is PURELY my projecting and not based on exact quotes) that they maybe never quite got the feel of the show nor had the time to understand and learn the history of the show (and I don't think any had a history of watching the show, although I know Corley at any rate hadn't had one with AMC either when he joined either but he was part of the late 80s ABC writer training program which would teach at least some of that.) I did like (most) of the FMB/Broderick brief era at AMC so much that if I had been online reading soap opera groups at the time and knew they moved to ATWT I would have checked it out for at least a few weeks, but I was clueless (it was only a year or two later, when Nixon came in briefly to try to save AMC after McTavish's second run that I would start to really be aware of all of that, otherwise all I knew was from the little I would find in soap rags, which I rarely read anyway, and paying as close attention to the closing credits as possible on the shows I did watch...) Ah thanks Nice to see you here.

That makes sense date wise (that she wasn't involved with Port Charles) because FMB was at As the World Turns from Nov 1996 to June 1999 (PC premiered in 97). So she began getting credited at ATWT only 7 months once she stopped being credited after being fired from AMC in April 1996. I've always found the trajectory about this all interesting (when I was interviewing Hal Corley about his time at AMC he asked to only vaguely talk about his time at ATWT so I only have some details here.) Because, from all I gather, by some point in 1994 FMB was becoming increasingly unhappy with McTavish's work at AMC (and others in the writing room may or may not have been as well,) ratings were also falling (partly as they climbed at DAYS) and I think her belief was McTavish was starting to rely on stunts (doppelgangers, the infamous bombing situation) and running out of the ideas that made her early stuff work so well. So FMB had McTavish let go from AMC in Spring 1995. Corley, who was on the writing team, was an interim HW (and credited on episodes I have) right after until FMB convinced Lorraine Broderick to return, who was credited starting in October 1995. Though I think creatively the show markedly improved (even though there were some flubs during LB's run at that time, no question) ratings did not improve and ABC then had FMB fired, when ATWT picked her up. So Behr didn't have much of a chance to work with the writing team she had chosen to replace McTavish and Francesca James came on as EP (a creative choice at least.) At ATWT, Behr inherited the writing team of Stephen Black and Henry Stern who, while I was not watching, I think are among the show's least fave writers (hadn't they written a kinda soap opera for the Playboy Channel? Eden or something?) They were quickly outed and FMB had a number of HW teams though Addie Walsh was often a part of it (I wonder if FMB was aware of her due to her work with Agnes Nixon on Loving?) Then basically as soon as Broderick, Corley, and maybe some others, were let go from AMC, FMB basically immediately hired them for ATWT--the writers she wanted for AMC anyway--this would be February 1998. Broderic, Corley and Walsh then were ATWT's HW until June 1999 when FMB was let go as EP (and returned to ABC Daytime) and Goutman came in. I don't think ATWT think particularly highly of FMB's run at ATWT though I've never heard it spoken of as the worst--maybe there was a sense that with her as EP and bringing in the AMC writers she was just trying to make Oakdale more into Pine Valley, I admit I really haven't looked into her time there. Still, I just find the back and switch interesting.

I appreciate the suggestion, thanks so much! Yeah, one of the saddest things to ever happen to ABC Daytime was that apparently it was between Behr and Brian Frons to become the new head of ABCD (in 2002 I think?) And we know who they chose...

Not sure where to post this (I suspect someone wrote something elsewhere?) but in sad news, the children of Felicia Minei Behr have posted about her death on FB. As everyone here knows it was her run on AMC that made me a soap fanatic as a kid/young teen: We are writing on behalf of our mom, Felicia. She passed away peacefully on March 2nd surrounded by loved ones. We appreciate the love and support you have given our family over the last 5 years as she battled brain cancer. For memorial/viewing information, please reach out to us. - Francesca Behr and Kristina Behr Miller Some writers who worked under her, including Hal Corley (who was so great when I interviewed him for my MA) have posted replies: Hal Corley: Devastating news, Kristina Behr and Francesca. Felicia was my ally and sometime champion. I worked with her on AMC and ATWT and again when she was an executive at ABC. Nobody reveled in the form's glories - and meeting its considerable challenges - more than Felicia. She was a rare producer who had absolute trust in those on her team: she delegated with confidence, investment, and respect. She appreciated soap writers as foundational to the genre's success or failure, as few do. She was also famously unflappable: no crisis escalated into drama because Felicia left the drama to the small screen. A genuinely generous-spirited human being away from her tiered executive responsibilities, she was also my friend. She continued to stay in touch after we both left daytime, and a call could buoy me with nostalgia and wickedly funny memories of shared experience. And did Felicia have stories! I loved her dearly and send my heartfelt condolences to you both and your family. Millee Taggart Ratcliffe: I second every word Hal!

Not sure where to post this (I suspect someone wrote something elsewhere?) but in sad news, the children of Felicia Minei Behr have posted about her death on FB. As everyone here knows it was her run on AMC that made me a soap fanatic as a kid/young teen: We are writing on behalf of our mom, Felicia. She passed away peacefully on March 2nd surrounded by loved ones. We appreciate the love and support you have given our family over the last 5 years as she battled brain cancer. For memorial/viewing information, please reach out to us. - Francesca Behr and Kristina Behr Miller Some writers who worked under her, including Hal Corley (who was so great when I interviewed him for my MA) have posted replies: Hal Corley: Devastating news, Kristina Behr and Francesca. Felicia was my ally and sometime champion. I worked with her on AMC and ATWT and again when she was an executive at ABC. Nobody reveled in the form's glories - and meeting its considerable challenges - more than Felicia. She was a rare producer who had absolute trust in those on her team: she delegated with confidence, investment, and respect. She appreciated soap writers as foundational to the genre's success or failure, as few do. She was also famously unflappable: no crisis escalated into drama because Felicia left the drama to the small screen. A genuinely generous-spirited human being away from her tiered executive responsibilities, she was also my friend. She continued to stay in touch after we both left daytime, and a call could buoy me with nostalgia and wickedly funny memories of shared experience. And did Felicia have stories! I loved her dearly and send my heartfelt condolences to you both and your family. Millee Taggart Ratcliffe: I second every word Hal!

Awww JJ. I think this take is pretty spot on. I keep forgetting about FreeVee as we never had it with Amazon Prime in Canada anyway, and this was just up with their other shows (I only realized when I was at a conference last year in Chicago and was watching on my phone and started seeing ads--and realized I wasn't actually logged into my Amazon Canada account.) And you're right--I don't think the platforms right now are interested in constant programming like this. I take that back--they seem keen right now to try more game shows and reality shows in the format--but not scripted. It is too bad though because, for the most part, I felt like they had found a way to make it work.

Thanks!

I've mostly enjoyed the Amazon version, but I know this isn't really surprising to anyone and certainly I feel for a 4 times a week streaming soap I felt mostly satisfied with it--I don't feel the way I felt with my only other experience with streaming soap reboots (over ten years back) with AMC/OLTL where so many factors just screwed up so much potential. And I appreciate that we have months still to go (I think they film three months in advance?) so it's not one of those typical "well maybe it will be renewed, oh I guess not" experiences. I agree with most of your take (though now I've watched this week's too.) Fallon is fine, but I wish she wasn't tied into the whole Seb thing which doesn't really make sense (IS she actually over him or not, anyway? It seems to change with each scene and who cares now that he's off-screen anyway.) Jane's fling with Clint I like more or less, except when they show the characters truly being stupid. It's one thing to use the empty room at Eirining (or whatever) Rising, I can accept that even among grown adults, but not being able to control yourself and not be so loud that the other tennants can you hear you? And I'm sorry, even as a teen I would have made sure the room was clean and NOTICED a condom in the middle of the floor, let alone as an adult trying to keep this secret (how do you even forget to get rid of a condom is beyond me) and just yech. I have liked the stuff with Aaron EXCEPT my issue with Brett having a new BF was... No young gay guy suddenly is going steady with a new guy within, what, a week? They could have had some line about him reconnecting with an ex, or *something* to make it plausible for me. I don't understand if we're meant to even like Holly. I was glad that Taye didn't budge and give her his job (I honestly thought he was going to, and maybe he still will.) And I like Cara a lot--I even like her interacting with Nicolette, but I still have NO NO NO idea why she seems to think she has to keep her search for her sister secret. I know Remy doesn't like her, but regardless, it doesn't make a lick of sense to me. (And yet, I have been enjoying watching the show, despite my complaints with almost all the current storylines? So there's that. )

Yeah, I know this is a point that DRW50 and I have long disagreed on. I think that Erica as a character did mature, but only as much as I would realistically see her character do. That said, certainly making her a showgirl at 50something (a storyline I would have loved if they had actually shown us one of her routines!) wasn't the way to go. But... I think I'm in the big minority in saying I kinda liked her doppelganger storyline. Completely agreed. I think the most viable Tyler would have been Ann and I do wonder if Wisner Washam being headwriter, and married to the main actress who played Ann played a part in not wanting to continue her character after Judith Barcroft left the show. She would return to soaps later on (including filling in for Erika Slezak on OLTL in the 80s!) but I wonder if by that point they felt her character was too forgotten from AMC

Loving in general is pretty good to see the early work of future soap stars. I completely agree with you about Perry Stephens (who died tragically really young of liver failure) and Grant Show. I think what was most frustrating about Loving is there were numerous times where they seemed to be totally on the right track and then there'd be a shake up behind the scenes...

I mean it basically is still unfolding in the shortlived 2013 Hulu reboot so... yeah long lasting lol Yep one of those recurring characters I loved seeing still show up. Well she was HW for 8 months or something so that's not long enough to change things too much

As Vee said Trish and Trucker for sure, some of the rare times Loving got soap mag covers. Jack and Stacy probably came close too? And as much as I have a soft spot for Loving, "It makes it hard to get a feel for the show" is a problem Loving has in general throughout its short life (just check out its HW roulette.)

Thanks for this, always happy to see Michael clips I haven't seen since that storyline ended. I know it got some flack (and there was gossip that the acotr was not comfortablke playing gay, something the one actor and two writers, including the co-head at the time, I interviewed about the story said was completely not true) but I loved the whole 2 year off and on "gay" umbrella storyline that started with him and continued with Kevin Shefield (and not least because it ended up being a huge focus of my MA thesis interdisciplinary faculty presentation, which is why I had the chance to interview so many involved and which I did very well with ) It was overshadowed by Bianca's coming out four years later, but in some ways was better done.

Somehow being Erica Kane-style slapped doesn't seem like all that bad a thing to me... Interesting, Wiki of course seems off about the months as they say by March, Felicia Minei Behr as EP and Margaret DePriest were in for the start of the AMC overhaul but I see the credits for those episodes still have the old EP (Schenkel? He never seemed to get much love or hate--coming in between all time fave EPs Behr and Jackie Babbin. I know he was a producer at Edge and AW as well and apparently left AMC on his own terms due to health, which I'm not sure I buy since they were concerned about falling ratings and shaking things up) and Lorraine Broderick as HW although during the time that Victor Miller (creator of Friday the 13th! But of course he did a lot of soap writing) was her co or associate HW briefly. Also McTavish's name starts showing up as an outline writer... Despite those credits, I would expect that DePriest's stuff (and probably Behr's) probably is already airing. I believe during DePriest's run Broderick and Miller were simply moved down to associate HWs or whatever the official credit was. You're not wrong that DePriest, true to the style of soap she knew best from Days, even going back to creating the infamous Where the Heart Is (which I wish we could see some of) suddenly added a lot more... well, yeah, bad people and that style of soap storytelling. Behr though was an ideal fit with a long history with the show in various roles going back to the 70s, but, it turned out, the right person to make the show a bit more current, which is what it arguably needed though it took a bit for her to get there. And I assume Nixon swooped in when she saw what was happening, the way she swooped in (much more briefly) in 99 during McTavish's infamous second run. I wanna say Nixon's stuff starts with that fall's big costume party Adam has which lasts a week or so and is a lot of fun (well I love things like that) but a total attempt at a repeat of the 1980 Palmer Cortland hosted Masquerade (which I uploaded four episodes from years back.) But we know Agnes Nixon for all her strengths was NOT against repeating a story idea (this one isn't quite as successful because it doesn't have the epic reveal of Daisy Cortland plot to play off of.)

Yeah the scheduling just always seemed bizarre...

I loved that too. It really was a point that marked the slow beginning of the end for soaps--and shows why you need creative people in charge of the fate of these shows, not network execs. As is pointed out, these focus groups would often be women pulled off the street who were immediately meant to give their opinion on each character they saw on screen. And never mind that if they hated a character, that would be a warning sign to the execs who didn't seem to realize that you're not meant to like every character.

Someone (I'm sorry I forget who) asked what Wisner Washam said about Megan McTavish. I found the interview and... it doesn't say much. We Love Soaps: So you left the show at one point in the '80s? Wisner Washam: Sometimes I shared credit with Lorraine. I saw a crawl last night on YouTube and my name was underneath Lorraine's. That was during a transition period when I was about to given the gate. She had been there for a long time and knew the show and was my right hand. I never had any feeling of resentment toward her as far as taking over my job. We Love Soaps: After some time away, you returned to ALL MY CHILDREN then left again for good. What led you to leaving? Wisner Washam: Megan McTavish. We Love Soaps: Interesting you say that. Among fans online, she is very unpopular writer in ALL MY CHILDREN history. Wisner Washam: She wasn't a pleasant person to be with every day, I'll tell you that. She drove me away. We Love Soaps: What was her role at that point on the staff? Wisner Washam: She was one of the outline writers. But she has a big mouth. And a very domineering personality. I actually thought Wisner had passed away since the interview, but happy to see he's still alive (as is his wife, early AMC/AW/etc star Judith Barcroft.) The three part interview (which is a great, if all too short, read) starts here: https://www.welovesoaps.net/2010/02/wisner-washam-interview-part-1-of-3.html

Oh, I'm probably misremembering it and The City was still on, but just barely (at any rate, I remember thinking "why bother doing a cross over now when it doesn't matter if viewers go over" though really it does make sense to use Alex if they're going to New York...) If it was that would be The City's final month, so maybe why I thought that? That Peter Hall clip is wild (and again I'm always fascinated about what writing credits we'll get in 1983-84--interesting Don Wallace was still there.) As a Bacharach fan I had no idea Peter Allen ever sang Arthur's Theme (he's credited as one of the three song writers but only because lyricist--and Bacharach's then wife--Carole Bayer Sager had taken the one single line "when you get caught between the moon and New York City" from a song she had been working on with Allen some years earlier.

RIGHT! This was the one I remembered, helping Antonio with some crime thing (I think it had location shooting.) IIRC it happened just before The City was off the air so it seemed odd to me (in my mind it happened just after The City was off, actually, but that doesn't seem possible...)

Were B&E responsible for both the Dolly clone storyline and the time travelling portrait? I remember I had liked B&E's final months at The City so much that I did try to watch their GL to some extent, but that was such a busy time in my life, adding another soap wasn't really practical when I was a senior at a performing arts school. (Before then I had temporarily watched GL out of curiousity when McTavish was hired to the show after she was fired from AMC... But I don't remember much about that time except that it was pretty dark and mean--funny as I think Behr had been concerned that McTavish's AMC was heading too much in that direction already... Who wrote Ghost Reva?)

Yes, I should have posted those pages here, but I now deleted the pics I took from the OLTL Trivia book -- but you can check it out in the thread (and the AMC cross over section from the AMC trivia book--the AMC one is from 1998, the OLTL is from 2008)