EricMontreal22

I wasn't here (I don't think? COVID is kinda a blur to me) but will have to look those posts up. I think you're right that it had that element from the start (I wonder if some of that is Marland's influence. As much as we associate him with families, etc, in ATWT he always seemed to have that angle--as of course New Day in Eden makes clear.) And that said, I do think the show still had moments of heart (I mean The City now)--like Angie and the baby storyline, etc. I also thought that it had one of the better realized younger casts on a soap at the time (of course I was 15-16 watching 20somethings so am not sure how much of that would have actually been realistic.) DC your point about Tracy's storyline missing the beats about how she genuinely was upset about being cut off from her family make sense. I admit, I wasn't (and have never really been) a GH watcher, so the character was new to me when she joined The City--it was only AFTER The City's cancellation that I saw her on A Daytime to Remember. I think this is a fair take, although I will say as a teen viewer I found it riveting. And part of that was because Loving had never gotten any love--as I've said already I didn't even know it existed until the Carter Jones crossover with AMC--Growing up in BC Canada, we used to get ABC via the Seattle feed and Cindi Rinehart (who I just realized recently passed away ) used to cover all of the soaps. Except Loving--even though it aired on her station. The only time I remember it coming up was when the AMC crossover happened (and back then for some reason our VCR couldn't record KOMO--I was fine with AMC and OLTL because they were simulcast on CBC in Canada. So I actually reached out to the mother of one of my brother's friends who I knew was a big soap opera watcher and asked if she would record it for me--so for a month she recorded every episode...) Anyway where was I

I mean people do age differently now (I even read a scientific study that said part of this has to do with the increase in life expectancy.) There's a reason no one would cast a modern production of Sunset Blvd with a 50 year old actress. But I admit I still was surprised to look up just how old both actresses were... Was that after Robin Strasser was cast? Because I was gonna say with Claire Mallis' Dorian I would have had no doubt she'd sleep with Matt.

Wow I wish this had been filmed and released. Agnes Nixon briefly had a website with videos of her talks at the Paley Centre (I believe one was for OLTL and one for AMC) that I wish I had thought to save like I saved her AMC episodes that were uploaded. Grr Certainly the early 90s under Nixon. I also think highly of the mid 90s when Broderick returned as HW although there are weird stories in that midst--95-97.

Thanks for doing this--Chris himself didn't seem to know when they were from! I agree with your last statement. And... I agree that Brown and Esensten's stuff WAS nihilistic--by design, I would argue. I ended up really liking The City in its final six months, but I completely understand your sentiment.

I completely agree. I guess they were replaced due to Brown/Esenstein already taking over with The City, and I admit watching the Loving Murders, for all its issues, *was* exciting. It's frustrating because Chris Marcantel was by far the better actor--and on a superficial level, I think pretty cute. But it sounds like ABC wanted "soap opera hot" which they did get with Robert Tyler. Curtis was always meant to be the anti-hero anyway, as written, so I'm not sure why ABC didn't see the example of Tony Geary as someone worth casting.

I love you forever for this quote. You're right! I'm just glad I managed to save some of the WOST rarer releases. Lance is the best!

I was lucky to be a fly on the wall for many of those Loving zoom meet ups--but it was clear how much everyone involved loved Loving (and seemed clueless about why it wasn't catching on, though they mentioned how erratic the writing was.

Thanks for posting these--I'm not sure why YT wouldn't let me. They were given to me by Chris Marcantel himself, who during the pandemic was such a cool guy, trying to bring together the Loving cast, etc. Unfortunately I had hours of episodes from that time that have been lost with my old laptop So I'm happy these are out there. Chris Marcantel says that Agnes Nixon asked that he return to the role when she took over as HW in late 1993. Before then he had resigned himself to not being "hot enough" to be a leading actor on an ABC soap. Which says a lot...

Thanks! I actually have a question which can probably be easily answered... Before ATWT stopped being live, what was the previous soap opera to stop airing live?

As a big fan of The Best of Everything the novel and movie, I always wished some of that survived. I admit, I never got why noon was an issue. West coast All my Children aired at noon and growing up I knew so many people who would watch it on their lunch breaks--which is how I discovered it because I went home from school for lunch. Her Stories is a great book, and its author Elana Levine was a lot of help when I was doing my MA. And you're right to point out that even back then they were distinctive brands. I remember back when there was the WOST site, people laughed that the creator refused to call LA filmed soaps, well, soaps... But I kinda get it. I will add that I just found it really illuminating to see those early 70s P&G soaps. When I read all the articles about AMC and OLTL taking off on college campuses, I honestly wondered if the college people were deluding themselves--all the talk about how "these shows aren't remotely the same as my mother's shows"--but in a way I get it. If you were just flipping channels some afternoon they would come across differently.

In hindsight I think it was a great year. At the time, I believe the network was concerned as ratings were dipping a bit--a bit why they insisted on hiring outside the show and making Margaret Depriest HW in 1989 and hiring FMB for EP (of course she had a great history with the show.) And we know how that went--Agnes Nixon insisted on returning as HW herself later in 89.

Totally agreed!

No, I know that. Trust me, I'm NOT a fan of ReRon...

I just wanted to echo what you say--such a great depiction of a grandma. I wonder when soaps lost this? I guess I know but. I'm lazy with my broken leg trying to catch up... But can anyone fill me in on this guy with the hand issue?

Yeah call it me being dumb but I don't blame her for any of that--it was all Ron's writing.

Could you imagine her working under Valentini? That said, I've always been curious about her co-writing stint at OLTL and if there were issues... As much as I worship Broderick, she wrote a few dog stories at AMC (Maria's baby comes to mind.) In general it's such a depressing, and annoying situation. Just six months later, I am convinced they would be able to have handled it.

"(She's back in 2025 doing a one woman show onstage these days at like 87 or something - and what a treat to see her young too in these '70s eps! Makes me wish we could see Wanda visit Llanview one more time.)" Yeah my friend who knows my love for One Life and All My Children, and is a regular theatre goer in NY sent me a text with a pic of the program for her show asking "Do you know her?" Apparently she's amazing in it. I was always team Karen Witter as Tina, but I admit that;'s because she's the Tina I was introduced with. But, I remember when I started posting on Usenet I was surprised that she was doisliked. And you're right--Malone DID bring Larry back for that story. I wish he had been asked to somehow be a part of the ABC finale as well.

"Luna guiding Tina through 'visions' of her past life with Cord as a pirate, etc. as early as fall '91, and Kevin's wild visions of Lee Ann around the same time." Wow I don't remember this at all. But it totally jives with some of Malone's fiction I've read which can go on tangents about past lives, etc. I DO remember the Midsummer Night's Dream moment. I do love that Virgil moment too (I recently revisited all those Megan episodes)--I like how Malone and crew did acknowledge all of OLTL's history but in a way that never felt like paying lip service, the way a certain later HW would. Really, one of the few mistakes the first time around I think was not trying to up Larry into the role of a patriarch (even flirting with him and Vicki?) Turning the character into someone who only existed as a doctor was a big mistake I think, and it would have been nice if they had built up his character after the final Rauch years (where he was barely a player in the storyline involving Dan his son, from what I can see.) Of course keeping Wanda around would have helped with that, but I understand it was her decision to leave.

Woah, I hadn't ever thought about that--definitely character changes towards the more Southern Gothic. I admit at that point I knew nothing about Another World except for its fabled history I had read about in books, but I decided to check it out because Malone would be writing. I remember--like what often happens--at first everyone seemed excited by the energy he brought to the show, but pretty quickly the lustre wore off and it was clear he was a bad fit, or P&G weren't allowing him to do what he wanted to do (or probably both.) I remember Connie/Marlena wrote an article about it

Aww I've missed your posts. I think this is all spot on. To be honest, my memory of the Heart of a Lord story was that it was partly undone by really poor casting. No, a Mists of Llanview approach to OLTL was probably not what was needed or wanted for the show at the time, but at least the ideas were interesting (and, at least as a concept, less schlocky than when Rauch-era OLTL went into fantasy and sci-fi.) I wish someone interviewing Malone had called him out on that aspect and asked about the approach (I suppose someone could still ask Griffith about it but, even if Griffith did apparently create himself key stories and characters during their run as a duo--the development of Todd especially--and I think Malone's work at OLTL was *always* better, during both runs, when Griffith was co-headwriter, I think his main strength was just helping Malone develop his ideas into the soap mode.) And of course you're completely right that the Gothic element, while I'd argue not the focus, was always prevalent during the first run--Hell, I think if it wasn't Billy Douglas that got me watching it was the whole "Max/Luna/Death" storyline. Given Malone's interests, it's no wonder why he was such a natural fit for an Agnes Nixon soap (and it's amazing that Gottlieb thought to ask him, especially since she came to the show--it would seem--with zero prior knowledge about soaps.)

I joined Rumble and found you! Thank you, looking forward to checking the videos out, and certainly looking forward to revisiting this episode of Tomorrow. James Lipton is a joke. My number 1 love and where my work focus has been is on Broadway musicals (I teach a Sondheim history course) and James Lipton has infamously had several disastrous attempts at Broadway musicals. Like much of his soap writing, I think the man was a hack who was never very good at anything he attempted to do (obviously I never saw his acting on GL so maybe he actually could act). Certainly, he earned his name as a soap killer IMHO. What he WAS good at was self promotion and making people think he knew his stuff--an image that he polished with the creation of Inside the Actors' Studio where he seemed like an authority just because he was talking to so many greats. BUT my idea about how Bell and Nixon both took separate aspects of the Irna soap and then took off from there goes to just what you were saying actually how Bell saved Irna's (well as co-creator) Days and Nixon saved Another World. I think even if you look at HOW Nixon "fixed" AW and how Bell "fixed" DAYS you can see the start of how they were going off in two different directions. I love the bit in Wakefield's All Her Children where Dan is having dinner at Nixon's home and he talks about how her daughter brings up a new soap that is also targeting a youth viewership (obviously Young and the Restless) and the daughter says there's one storyline on it (something to do with a gun? I can't remember) that is ripping off a story her mom has written for AMC (I think, it may have been OLTL). And Agnes Nixon is quoted as replying she knows the writer of that show and thinks he is extremely good, and that it isn't a rip off because he will have his own stylistic take on a similar idea.

Yes, and I felt like Andy was so worried about time that he cut it short--they didn't even go the full hour But, I can't complain in the end because we got more than what I'd expect (usually these kinds of fan reunions wouldn't even think to invite people like Francesca James or Lorraine Broderick let alone Judy--speaking of, she said she was casting agent for 22 years, what exactly were her years at the show?) And you're right about Susan. I love that she speaks out about the show, that she speaks out about Agnes, and that she does (in a coy way) mention how aware she was about some less than great writing (I remember on the View anniversary special when Broderick was about to come in to replace Pratt and Susan Lucci actually said how they were all aware that they had had bad writing for a while now but that would change...) But she also is known to stumble on her actual facts (on that same View special I think she said Agnes Nixon created... I don't remember, but some soap she wasn't even involved in.) I did find it weird that Andy Cohen asked Broderick if they felt competition from the other ABC shows, but not the NON ABC shows which I assume would have been a more direct issue (I mean it was under Broderick that we got the voodoo story and the gossip at the time was it was being pushed to compete with DAYS' increasing craziness.)

In the early 80s ABC owed Agnes Nixon a LOT--I believe she was still overall consultant for ABC daytime, but either way daytime, largely due to her work (of course not discounting GH.) And yes, much to the understandable frustration of Ryan's Hope fans, they gave Loving its slot. But regardless, I have no idea why they didn't just agree to her request to have Loving sandwiched between AMC and OLTL. It just seemed like such a no brainer. RIGHT the fertility statue or whatever on Another World. I'm convinced too that when Malone and Griffith returned to OLTL they were cribbing from ideas for Bourbon Street--which is why unlike most of their first run, suddenly they took an extremely Gothic approach (the Baghara Diamond or whatever it was, Heart of Lion, the Lord secret mansion in the fog, etc, etc) All that stuff felt kinda WTF and not what we were wanting from their return at the time, but in hindsight I kinda liked that they were trying different things and of course it was MUCH more interesting than what we then got from Dena Higley (which was either drawn out and boring or actually offensive.) And no, I have never seen the infamous pilot that those who've seen love so much... It's like the one piece of lost media I'd most like to see.

I saw some of it years back... How do I access this site? Awww Where in Canada are you? Yes, but DAYS wasn't a P&G soap I agree though that it always seemed quite contemporary, something Bell certainly was influenced by when he conceived of (with Conboy) Y&R. The Bell style of soap always fascinates me, because from the way I see it you can see the Irna Phillips classic soap--and then how her two proteges Bell and Nixon took aspects of her "classic" soap opera she had finetuned but each took different aspects and went in different directions with it. And then, of course, P&G felt in many ways that they had to play catch up with BOTH of those. Thanks everyone for the welcome (backs!) It's nice to be back

Right. I suppose ATWT and GL are the two soaps that are most identified with Irna, so it makes sense that they'd hold on to that classic Irna feeling the most (even if this ATWT I guess was immediately after Irna's disastrous return as HW.) I love Anthony Crivello due to his musical theatre work--I was 13 when I saw him in Kiss of the Spider Woman and he's one of my fave voices on a half dozen cast albums I know. I really think he's one of the best modern leading men Broadway has produced. And it was only when I got to email him about an obscure musical he did that I was presenting on for a conference (the 1965 Arthur Laurents/Richard Rodgers/Stephen Sondheim hidden gem Do I Hear a Waltz?--Crivello was in the premier of the revised version in Pasadena in 2001) that I suddenly put two and two together that he was Johnny Dee!! (granted, Johnny Dee was two years before my time, but over the years I had seen enough of him that I shoulda put two and two together...)