EricMontreal22

Fascinating--I dunno why I haven't gotten around to tracking down a copy of that book yet. Hubbell was actually Chuck number 3 http://www.pinevalleybulletin.com/Quick Guide/BiographiesWeb/TylerChuck.html

😮 When was it shot?

You don't recognize sorta-almost former teen idol Jay R. Ferguson? (He was Ponyboy in The Outsiders TV series...) I loved him as Stan on Mad Men, his most significant role and I'm glad he's on a hit after being a lead in several sitcoms (The Real O'Neals and last year's Living Biblically) that went nowhere. Apparently he briefly dated Sara Gilbert--in this stylish ensemble

I'm glad you enjoyed! Interestingly a year later there was a major shake up (even if the actors themselves seemed to want new writers, I'm glad TPTB didn't replace Gordon and Hall who would go on to write some of their best work.)

That's my fault but I know at least one major writer who I've chatted with a fair amount--a lot of stuff had to be completely off the record, certain things they wouldn't answer, when I did an official interview with them that I could pull quotes from for my grad essay, I had to agree to let those quotes be reviewed, etc--and that seems pretty typical of the majority of the people who were in the bizz. I guess it's just about not burning any bridges cuz you never know what connection you might have for other possible jobs?

I'm actually still watching--God knows why (just like God knows how this was renewed). And... I think I like this season a lot more than the first season. Maybe I just now like the characters? It's not great TV, it's definitely a show that I watch while doing other things, but... *hides*

An online "friend" of mine who used to be involved with AMC has mentioned and recommended a book to me that I'd never heard of, though with the caveat that he thinks the gossip and talk in it is only about 60-70% right (but that seems like a decent ratio for a very biased tell-all). Has anyone else read it? I'll probably eventually get a copy with hopefully some Christmas money... Apparently it's filled with details about the turmoil behind the scenes on AMC (and a bit at OLTL) in the second half of the 1990s--including the firing and rehiring of McTavish and the EP shuffle... http://www.mondocult.com/articles/makeup.html http://www.makeupandmisery.com/ SOAP OPERAS ARE DYING OFF. But years before the funeral began, veteran makeup man Norman Bryn was embalming Divas in front of the camera, while dueling with some behind it too! Makeup & Misery: Adventures in the Soap Factory relates Norm’s five-year cosmetic chronicle doing simultaneous duty at All My Children for Disney/ABC and NBC’s Saturday Night Live. Stars including the late Phil Hartman, Susan Lucci, Sarah Michelle Gellar and Kelly Ripa appear in this frank behind-the-scenes look at network TV production from the viewpoint of the makeup artist. Facelifts and friendships, hirings and firings, death, politics, Emmys, unions, and the rivalries among cast and crew drive this story of the decline of Daytime Serials right up to 2009. Slashed budgets, falling ratings, the threat of Reality-TV and the internet paint a vivid picture of the changing fortunes of soaps and the TV business in general. This “makeup memoir” is a must-read for would-be cosmeticians, actors, and of course soap fans.

I guess Taggert really (with different other writers) has the most accumulated years writing for Loving--four or so? I find her late 80s stuff with King has good individual scenes but kinda dull stories--a lot of corporate world based stories which never seemed to be what Loving should be about. I agree that Babbin helped them create their strongest work. In a soap rag interview I found with her when she came on, she has a clear vision for the show--unfortunately she also says she has only agreed to join on as a "favour" (I assume to Nixon after their time at AMC?) and will ONLY be there for a year, which in soap terms isn't really all that long as you know... (Ironically though Fran Sears stayed on as EP after her for even less time, and I doubt the year commitment was one of her conditions) I forgot that Ceara interacted with them--well I mean I know she stayed at the Rescott's in that first AMC crossover in '91, but... That sounds fair--I probably hold Walsh's Loving to too high a standard because it's when I started to watch the show as a kid (I was an AMC nut and only became aware and started watching Loving with the 91 AMC crossover, and only started watching daily the following summer with the full on Carter Jones AMC/LOV crossover). It was 1986 wasn't it that the snake happened? I adore the fact that Agnes Nixon always maintained that was one of her all time favourite storylines I mean I've tracked down very little of it, but just due to the rep it has, etc, it kinda makes me happy that Agnes stands by it. I would love to know more details about why Granger and Walsh disagreed so strongly that Walsh broke her contract leaving the show without a headwriter for four or so months (and that woulda been just when the AMC Carter crossover was revving up *I think* if I have my dates right--I always wondered who wrote what for that--Agnes Nixon had just passed the official AMC headwriting reigns over to McTavish but she was still involved obviously in both soaps... I assume you're not at those episodes yet (and I may have the dates wrong...) Agreed about the parent/child stuff... Agnes Nixon probably had no interest in trying another gay storyline--while researching my MA essay about gays on her soaps I found a brief interview where she mentions how little story they were allowed to tell with the 1983 Lynn Carter lesbian storyline on AMC (and of course Agnes originally wanted it to be a gay male storyline but ABC said they already had a gay male on TV--Stephen on Dynasty) and finally realized it was just "too soon" to tell that story, so diving into a gay story on her new soap right around the same time probably felt useless. But it's not a bad idea. Early Loving certainly wanted to push the boundaries (and they could have tied it into the AIDS research story which really went nowhere even if it was even just groundbreaking to mention AIDS on a soap in 1983). I'm not saying Doug would have AIDS but... (And I see you just had the same thought lower down in your post LOL sorry I'm replying as I read...) Agreed there. I wonder if that was partly Marland's fault. The Donovans seem to want to fit into his Snyder prototype sorta boring lower middle class family slot that he's so attached to but I find kinda dull...

I'm sure there is much more "embarrassing" footage from his career out there... Sigh. It is crazy how quickly most of the Donovans were written out...

What was great to read though was all the transcribed conversation between Gordon, Sam and Gordon's secretary Joan--which gave you a sense of listening in on them. While you can tell there might be already some mixed feelings between Sam and Gordon, it also seems like grumpy Sam exaggerated his feelings for the lack of work and talent Gordon showed in his interviews much later for Llanview in the Afternoon--that's just a guess, but (or maybe he grew tired of Gordon later on). They also imply that Gordon hired Sam... And of course it's interesting to hear Agnes' role--that she will consult if they need her and she's *required* to consult if ratings are in trouble--one such rating slip seemingly leading to her suggesting that they kill Victor off. Also this seems to prove that Wiki is (what's new?) wrong and Doris Quinlan was EP at the show at the time (I know she also worked in that capacity at AMC with some overlap there--I think with Agnes and Bud Kloss playing much of that role at AMC).

I mean I assume Ron would have had access to the ABC archives which go back to 1978? (77?) with a few earlier episodes and MAYBE they made him copies but even so, I bet it's more just key episodes from his time at the show. Isn't it bizarre?! This was for a PHD it seems, not just a MA paper. He goes from very jargon filled pages and pages about methodology, etc, and then weird stream of conscious narration about his experience. Still, it's pretty amazing that apparently he traveled to New York and was granted access to the writers for an entire week. It does list the readers and it was signed off and stored at the school so I assume he did complete his studies, though... But yeah, you're not kidding about padding--I mean is there any reason he has to say that attendance in the last class was low, or he was also going to spend some time visiting his family, what the lighting was like, how "fine" his stereo back at home is, etc? (Funny as I've been writing my MA paper on soaps--and grant you it is much much shorter with a requirement of under 10,000 words which came to about 35 pages, the emphasis with each submission has all been about editing as much as possible).

While writing my MA essay on Agnes Nixon and gay storylines in soaps, I came across this--has this been discussed and I missed it? A VERY analytical dissertation on OLTL from the mid 1970s but it has fascinating stuff--script excerpts, a hint that Sam Hall and Gordon Russell did not get along (*shock* ), confirmation that Agnes Nixon basically suggested the death of Victor Lord story, etc... https://etd.ohiolink.edu/pg_10?105547168403::NO:10:P10_ETD_SUBID:132868#abstract-files (scroll down to the download links)

Are these episodes on YT? I only vaguely started watching then. Man it still amazes me all the turnaround Loving had despite staying under (to some degree) Agnes Nixon's control.

In soap trivia books (which often get details wrong) AMC's honeymoon in St Croix is listed as the first international location shoot (apparently the show was so popular there that they aired in prime time). (Although technically St Croix is a constituent district of the US...) It seems like it was a particularly popular tourist place for Americans around that time--you don't hear about it nearly as much now...

I completely agree--I think McT (during that era anyway) and Broderick would have balanced each other out well. And yeah--it got very one note and bleak.

It started to fall apart near the end of McTavish's run at that time--so many doubles, got very dark and violent, etc--which was why FMBehr fired her, but I still strongly agree.

I attended a conversation with Maupin a bit back where he hinted at some of this casting (well he told us one bit outright and then said we better not repeat it since it wasn't official yet...) but I'm really pleased with everything I've heard about the miniseries so far. And I'm thrilled that Paul Gross is back as Brian--one of several recasts for the later season where I didn't much like the new actor (I know Gross was busy with his TV work at the time) Story wise it sounds like it picks up with the 8th book, Mary Ann in Autumn which age wise makes complete sense and casting a young Anna makes me think it'll also use elements from the 9th, final book, The Days of Anna Madrigal which is largely a flashback to her childhood, but I know we're meant to get new stories, etc, along with these. Maupin isn't writing any of the scripts (which is fine by me--Richard Kramer did the first series script which was great--Maupin did the not as successful later adaptations) but he is mapping out the new storylines and is fully on board. It's too bad this means we'll miss some of the bits I liked best in the 4-6 books (I assume some of the Michael Tolliver stuff will be incorporated from the 6th book which is, unlike the soap structure of the others, all his story), but they would have had to have recast all the roles realistically (Maupin did write a script for the fourth book, Babycakes, which was briefly in development at Showtime 15 years back).

Yeah, Malone didn't seem to fight for it too much to be honest--or at least he was resigned to the issues at the time. In interviews I found from the time he admits how pleasantly surprised they were at how much audiences like Billy--saying originally the focus was gonna be on Andrew. He's quoted in a Michael Logan article on Daytime Taboos from Sep 1993 saying that "it's one thing to do a story abou t homophobia but it's quite another to explore the life of a gay character or couple a life that includes sex and such problems such as gay adoption. I doubt that day will ever come. :

SOunds right. Interestingly the same article said that even if they were brave enough (their words) to keep Billy on, it would have to be recast because Ryan had just booked the NBC primetime "soap miniseries" The Secrets of Lake Success which they hoped would be successful enough to be a series (I'd never heard of it--though I see it's on DVD so I guess it wasn't.) Variety's review starts off: When the Atkins family patriarch dies, the town of Lake Success is inundated with more gold diggers than a Dean Martin roast. Resultant fast-paced soaper may be -- however inadvertently -- the funniest series on primetime TV, with florid acting and script on a campy level that makes "Dallas" look like "King Lear." Pity it's only scheduled for three two-hour installments, concluding Oct. 15.

I'm not sure and though I was watching, I don't remember and YT is little help. When would the bachelor party have been? I found the mention of his one off appearance for AIDS day (when all the soaps in 1993 agreed to do something for that day--June 21) in an essay on the storyline.

WHich was basically the end of the story (I think they had a bit more with Billy and Ricky his bf, etc but then it faded away--his dad never even "came around"--I found one interview that said Malone had a story with them going on a double date with Joey and a girl but for whatever reason it never happened) Thanks!

A question as to dates that I need for my grad paper and can't nail down--does anyone have the dates, even months, that the homophobia storyline played out on OLTL? Even just down to appearances by Billy Douglas. I know it was over several months during the Summer of 1992 (and that Billy showed up once more the following year for AIDS day *rolls eyes*)

Thank you so much!

Does anyone know the date, or week that Michael Delaney was shot on the Cutting Edge? I'm trying to find a better copy on youtube than the clips with the Turkish (??) subtitles but even that doesn't give a date...

Wow I had no idea that Don Wallace was on the writing team in 1986.