EricMontreal22

So what caused DAYS to go to number 1? Was that HH or demos?

Right--I saw that going through this thread. Wasn't there just a lawsuit settled to do about the writing credits for Family?? Maybe something to do with credited creator Jay Presson Allen? (Who has had some slight infamy with writing credits--the film screenplay of Cabaret is credited to her, however, most sources now acknowledge that playwright Hugh Wheeler did the final script).

I can't find the quote now, but yes, Ruth says something about how someone involved (a director?) pulled her aside and basically said that she should want the audience to love to hate her--not just to hate her.

Oh thanks! It drives me crazy that we never got anymore of it on DVD. I don't think it gets the credit it deserves--a lot of great writers came from it (Herskovitz and Zwick I believe met on it--nearly a decade before creating thirtysomething).I'll often see youtube and blog posts about groundbreaking "gay" themed episodes from the 1970s that mention stuff lie the gay bar on Taxi but completely ignore Family's Rites of Friendship episode from its first full season which is shockingly progressive in its take on homosexuality for the time (nevermind that Willie's "best friend" is never mentioned again lol)--or I believe there was a season 3 episode with Buddy having a crush on a lesbian teacher.

It's too bad he was apparently a jerk on set which is why Susan used her clout to get him fired....

I agree with everything you say Vee Didn't know that about Giles. I corresponded with him briefly after the book on FB and he seemed pretty laid back but every so often would take offense at seemingly random things. Regardless, the book truly is a treasure.

Thanks for posting that. This is my bias, but from all the interviews with Mulcahey I've read--he likes to come off as rather irreverent so I assume he's exaggerating (at least I hope so ). I guess my take away from that is not a very popular one--I think Nixon has every right to, well, micromanage her show (though I'm a little surprised at how involved, day to day, she was during the time Marland was writing--I can sure imagine this was a big reason why he left after a year). I completely get why for many that would be a horrible way to work, but... From my interviews I know that during the 95-97 Broderick era Nixon remained very hands on even if she took no official credit (though if I recall she did go up with the writers when they won the Emmy)--in that she offered her feed back on every script (apparently sometimes would even phone up one of the main writers late at night with a story thought), even though she wasn't credited *however* they have also said that--by that point (and Loving ten years earlier may have been different) she was also respectful enough that she knew that they didn't *need* to take her input and put it to use by any means. It's funny with Nixon and AMC in that I think fans tend to (myself included) both overplay her involvement and underplay it. As has been mentioned, a lot more credit--especially for the early 80s greatness--deserves to go to Wisner, but other writers as well, for creating fave stories and characters. On the other hand, by all reports, she was overseeing things (I suspect even, though to a lesser extent especially with her prolonged grief at the death of her husband, during the awful second McTavish run) and while her power greatly diminished, she seems to have been overseeing the show to *some* degree during some of its worse times (for me the solo run of Passanante after Nixon stopped writing with her officially being the nadir--others will prob pick a McTavish run)--the only time that she wasn't allowed to offer story input and advice being during the Pratt era. Again from her confusing memoirs it does seem that officially she was co-HW of OLTL with Gordon Russell from 73 (when she left the HW position) to 75 which is when she started to feel too occupied with AMC and "comfortable" leaving it with Russell, but she also claims to have consulted at least through the end of the 70s (I know that during the 80s and I think even early 90s she did hold an official post at ABC as consultant for all of their daytime shows but that could mean anything).

One brief comment about the original 1960s DID story--in Agnes' memoirs which I've just re-read for my thesis (and, I'll say it again, are a mess), she does make it clear that she took the Vicki part of that story , and her trauma, very seriously but also saw Nicki as the number one source back then for the comic relief element that Nixon felt was so important for her soaps (she mentions how she was able to first use comedy when writing Another World and she felt that was as responsible for the rating climb as the Rachel/Alice/Steve stuff). Nowadays I admit I always find it in poor taste when they use DID stories for comic relief (as arguably Carlivati did)--but I also understand things were different back in '68.... I must have blacked that part out because watching it when I was a teen, I got no sense that we were meant to find any of it funny. Of course I coulda been too connected to the material as it was the first time I saw on TV anything dealing with or acknowledging the long term effects of sexual abuse which, bla bla bla, is something I can personally relate to. Certainly I did think Higley made it distateful and Ron treated it as comedy (it's funny--again the Giles book--that the actors all praise Carlivati to the Heavens--and I think Giles is biased towards him as well--but then they have a random comment from Hillary B Smith where she says that the one time she basically wanted to disown her show she felt so disgusted with it was when Mitch was trying to "rape" his daughter while spouting bible verse and then the electro shock--however they don't make it clear to a reader who wouldn't know that that WAS during the Carlivati/Valentini era--despite the book, which I love, making both men sound infallible. I somewhat disagree--it worked for me and I think the show DID manage to get away from the Rauch camp under Gottlieb/Malone/Griffith into *some* semblance of a modern take on the 1960s version (at least kinda...) But I completely get your point (and remember, it was this era where I started to watch the show was a 12 year old--only seeing clips of older stuff thanks to the "Megan Death Flashback Week" ) and as I said, even St Nixon treated it as comedy when she was playing Nicki (although not dark comedy as Higley et al. would--Nicki just wanted to basically have the fun that Vicki, due to her father, would not allow her--nothing more or less). I would argue though your point that under Rauch, Nicki was "unintended camp"--I have to think O'Shea at least was aware of the camp during that era.

Were the O'Neil's introduced during that quick time Henry Slesar was co-writing with Sam Hall? it's too bad that no one asked Sam Hall about that confusing time (the Corringtons then coming in) while he was still alive. Of course knowing grumpy Mr Hall he woulda just said what a terrible writer Slesar was and left it at that (his comments about Gordon Russell in Giles' book are hysterical--implying he never wrote, he just sat around drinking and flirting with women and Agnes Nixon had a crush on him so let him get away with everything, etc... I mean the very fact that OLTL's style changed when Russell passed away proves that obviously he wasn't just HW in name only)

She only sent me one of the Another World scripts as I wasn't too interested in it or Somerset, but basically Canedella's notes were just VERY sparse and didn't feel too "involved". I will say that she seemed to love working with him almost as much as Nixon... Nixon's on the other hand, as I said, were just all over the place--but by no means mostly corrections. Lots of comments about what she liked (on one page she makes a note "And here is where people across America will start to cry!" ), they just seem really involved as if she was picturing the drama while reading the script and trying to see if it fit her vision--if that makes sense. They're not here at school with me but I've been meaning to scan at least a few pages as they're really fascinating (the three AMC ones don't really involve any big storyline though the OLTL ones are during the Marcy (Francesca James) gaslighting Vicki story.) I think DePriest can be a cold writer--I take that away from every era of her writing I've seen but she certainly made AMC a much colder feeling show in her brief time--she also really pulled it into focus (the final year of Broderick's run that time sorta became a muddle IMHO) and emphasized dramatic moments. It's purely conjecture on my part but I just assumed that maybe she didn't often do SUCH short runs (under a year) due to being hired then fired but rather agreed to them -- as at least in the case of The Doctors, AMC and OLTL she seemed to be called in when they felt the show needed sharpening up and more drive. I'm with you on the Cult of Marland. I admit, I might feel differently if I had watched his ATWT or his GL as it aired. And of course, to be perfectly clear, I do think he's a very strong writer. But from what I've seen comments like "he could do every genre and type of story" don't ring true...

Thank you! I'm glad to see you are still here

The abuse aspect made *complete* sense to me (if it hadn't been so well done, though, I probably would think differently). I can't fault Malone/Griffith for that personally. (I can blame Higley--well for everything but especially for making Nicki guilty for practically pimping young Jessica out, not to mention how Higley had a shrink say it was beneficial for Clint and Vicki to watch the kidding porn made from that session--NO shrink would say that--etc etc.) And let's face it to those who say it ruined Victor--he was already, well, a creep to put it mildly, especially after the 1980s "revelations". I guess some think molestation was a step too far--but is it really after him sleeping with Irene Manning and everything else? It seemed a natural further revelation to me. (One thing I find amusing is on in interviews Susan Bedsow Horgan stated how they consulted with Agnes Nixon who thought it was a great and powerful idea--then in the Giles book Nixon basically says it was a terrible idea she had no input in, I think with the thought that Victor was somewhat based on her father, and she wanted to be clear HE never sexually abused her. I adore Nixon as everyone knows, but she has contradicted herself before--especially later in her life--the Giles interviews were done post-stroke--so who knows where the truth is...) It DID annoy me how Joe (Kevin's father for [!@#$%^&*]'s sake) was essentially erased after the Heaven story really. On one level I get it--in All Her Children (back in 1975) Agnes talks about one dilemma with soap writers is how much of the character history should you keep referencing---her example was that Ann Tyler was a divorce from a wealthy European aristocrat, but that by this point in her history in the show--while that shouldn't be ignored--it just made things too complicated to ever even mention it. However, in this case fans knew about Vicki and Joe for more than a decade...

Thanks for making me aware this was posted! I know not every soap fan will agree but this is like perfect soap for me.

Rita Lakin wrote Peyton Place: The Next Generation, a TV Movie that was a planned pilot for an 80s prime time soap update of PP.

Completely agreed--and I wouldn't be surprised if Gottlieb had approved the story before she left.

Great stuff--I assume Susan Bedsow Horgan was in place as EP by then (which is funny as I used to always just assume the DID must have been another story under Gottlieb). Her first year was good, then (around the time Griffith left and Malone went solo) it became a mess--of course a mess that looked great next to the following years. Where is the Giles interview from? Having recently reread the Giles book they do mention how frustrated Roy was with the knowledge his character had a fatal disease but for whatever reason the writers hadn't seemed to have decided what disease it would be... So he had to play a lot of coughing, etc.

Well since he LOVES James Lipton.... maybe that's for the best.

Great choices, especially nice to see the Brits (I agree with your picks) and even some I wouldn't list like Sesentsen and Brown whose Loving and The City (after a very rough first six months) I particularly enjoyed. I guess I can see someone listing Reilly who I wouldn't but.... James Lipton? The ultimate hack? Has he EVER written decent soap opera (or plays or musicals--all flops) for that matter? And I'll say it again, while maybe he only had one great stint, I'm shocked no one has mentioned Michael Malone at all. Found the quote: PJ asks: Right after you left OLTL, Eli, the HIV-positive teenager Carlotta Vega adopted, vanished without a trace. If you had stayed, what story did you have planned for him? Claire Labine: I don’t remember Eli. I don’t think he was my invention, he was probably Jill's [Farren Phelps]. I wouldn’t have done another HIV story, I had done that with Stone [on GENERAL HOSPITAL]. I wouldn’t have touched another HIV story for a long time. I felt we had given that our all and I wouldn’t have gone back to that. Here's the link to her full interview--well worth reading when someone has the time--it and the Wisner Washam interview on the same site are essential (well essential to me ). https://www.welovesoaps.net/2010/02/claire-labine-answered-your-questions.html

This is the problem about talking about a headwriter. I know this is an old post but endulge me... Many of the stories you mention were not penned by Nixon. She WAS involved to varying degrees during all of the stories you talk about, but how involved is open to consideration (and from a technical viewpoint many of them were during eras when other writers--Washam, Broderick and McTavish) had the official HW credit. I have no idea what you mean about the Alec McIntyre being killed by Will story is lol but if you mean the Who Killed Will story (which I believe was before Alec was even introduced) it seems that was spearheaded, and the first major story by McTavish. As kid I found it riveting but probably would less so (McTavish repeated many of the plot points in her last stint when she had the Michael Cambias murder mystery). In Agnes Nixon's memoirs (which are unfortunately so unclear about dates and facts--like she talks about co-HW One Life to Live with the "great" Gordon Russell, and I agree he was great, but doesn't give what years, she sometimes calls various AMC writers she mentions co-HWs, she never really mentions when she wasn't HW of that show except to mention how Pratt was so terrible, though she doesn't name him, and that he pushed her out of the writing room during that time, etc, etc). The Michael Cambias/Kevin Sheffield storyline was instigated by the underrated Hal Corley who worked and ran it past Lorraine Broderick (who was official HW at the time) and Agnes Nixon did offer input. I know this from an interview I did with Corley and I have no reason to not take him at his word. There are other examples I can mention in your examples (like I think Taylor was probably created, as much as we wanna vilify her, by Megan McTavish--credit due). And of course as mentioned many of things we credit to Agnes were Wisner Washam, although I disagree with Khan--I think the Cortlands were all Agnes. She mentions basing Palmer in many ways on her father, etc. Plus she does have a penchant for the Gothic (she repeated much of it with the Natalie in the Well/Wildwind/Wife in the Attic story arc during her second last stint as official HW). When she wrote Loving in late 93-94 she did the very Gothic Dante with his "pet" Curtis in a cage story as well as the Gilber/Jeremy double. I know several here have dissed Agnes Nixon's Gothic storylines but I find them kinda endearing in their craziness, even if I admit they're not fully successful. Nixon was a fan of Dark Shadows afterall (hence her hiring their writers for OLTL) and loved the Gothic qualities of Victorian authors including the serials of DIckens and Collins. In fact she strikes me as truly the most Dickens (or more so Wilkie Collins) influenced headwriter. Her mix of tones often struck established soap viewers as odd when AMC started--even Schemering mentions this in his Soap Encyclopedia, but it echoes Dickens entirely. The sense of a community. The unabashed dependence on tropes that many mock like coincidence, characters leaving and coming back as quite different (new career, etc), near-caricatured rich as well as lower class characters with the non-caricatures "identify" characters tending to be squarely middle class. Somewhat bland but endearing young lover heroes and heroines. Amnesia. The use of psychological AND physical doubling. The use of HUMOUR--including villains who could be broadly humorous one moment and then genuinely scary the next. A huge reliance on revelations of a characters past. And, of course, the use of controversial and genuinely groundbreaking social relevancy and discussion in her storylines. I've written a lot in grad school about the Dickens and later "sensation fiction" serials of the Victorian era and the similarities to soaps, but especially Nixon's soaps is striking. One big complaint of critics at the time (aside from the familiar to soap fan complaint about how people were being mindlessly hooked on serials, were confusing fiction with reality, were wasting time obsessing and worrying about fictional characters, etc) was that a Dickens serial from installment to installment would move from satire, to touching sentimentality, to outright Gothic horror, etc. Guess what? Many 1970s critics of Agnes Nixon, and particularly of AMC (which is far more traditional in setup than her work on OLTL) was that the tone would vacillate sharply from scene to scene. And I love that. It's a cliche used to make soap opera writing sound "important" when soap fans mention their ancestry in Dickens' serials, but with Agnes Nixon it's true and this is where she is different from Irna, or Bill Bell, or more literary later writers like Lemay (I think Michael Malone, who shockingly has not been mentioned here, also has that Dickens influence and is very similar to Nixon albeit FAR more literary). In her We Love Soaps interview, Claire is asked about the Eli storyline and she claims it must have been before or after her time and to have ZERO knowledge of it, for what it's worth.

I think Canedella is the definition of mediocre. I've recently befriended a woman who was a sort of "pitch hitter" writer on soaps in the early 70s--she has copies and sent me several of her scripts which have notes from the individual headwriters, etc (apparently back then, when writing staffs were so small, HWs would call people like her when they needed a script or re-write fast and their team was too busy). She worked with Candella on AW and Somerset and Nixon on AMC and OLTL. Not to anyone's surprise but the quality of the work and the detail of the notes by the two HWs is so vastly different, it's shocking. I know one soap writer called working with Nixon and Marland on Loving Hell because Nixon would write SOOO many notes for revision in the margins of his scripts. That would be frustrating to work with, but it also shows how much she cared about the quality, and maintaining a voice and tone, she felt towards her shows. This brings up DePriest who, with her work at The Doctors (which at the least is more exciting than Canedella's) led me to a question. Most of her soap stints have been brief. Was that by design? At one point she seemed to be a go-to woman to come in when a soap was floundering and shake things up as an interim writer and then leave--specifically at AMC when it was slinking in the ratings just as FMB came in as EP around 1989 and she came in briefly (though of course it was Nixon herself who replaced her) and then she seemed to (less successfully) move on to do the same job at the very troubled OLTL. I will say I loved her work at Sunset Beach, the only time I can say that about the show--it was fun, soap parody (unlike the awful, insulting and just plain dull soap parody of Passions). And certainly her own Where the Heart Is is the one "lost" soap I'd most like to see (well along with Lovers and Friends) although she was quickly replaced there I believe and people liked it best when it was Labine/Avila's first writing stint.

Nixon's memoir is a mess of course (and for good reason--writing it--largely by dictation--post stroke, passing away before a final draft, etc) but has some great anecdotes. I believe she mentions Wood and might even go as far as calling him an associate headwriter with a little anecdote. It's around the section where she mentions how she met Broderick (although timeline wise that musta been ten or so years later) when Broderick was a university faculty member and had heard a male student bragging about being a writer on AMC (apparently he did a test script that was turned down) so Broderick wrote in that she wanted to try. I'll have to check on what she says abotu Wood but she clearly thought of him at some point as one of the top writers/collaborators. Pine Charles thanks for that clip again--I hadn't seen it since it was first posted and deleted--it's pretty great.

Ta! Nice to be back

Ha from Geri's Bag it Up video! I forgot about that, I'll have to pull it out again

Yes and (reportedly) even when AMC's ratings were declining in the late 90s it still remained the most recorded *soap opera* (of course I'm sure that didn't last...)