EricMontreal22

Great to see you here Thanks for detailing the blanks--and yeah, man, I'd love to see some of that. As you say, it should mostly all be there... Lisa Wilkinson as Nancy is one of the guests who came to Ruth and Joe's housewarming for the 25th anniversary week.

Nice to be back and see familiar faces (particularly yours!) I'll try to stick around for a while. Thanks for the correction--I see she gets a brief mention in the AMC coffee table book. Of course not a major storyline like Ellen implies... Loving didn't have any black contract players at first, did it?? (I mean Debbi Morgan had a somewhat important role in the pilot but that doesn't count...)

Ha, I haven't been here in a very long while. So to answer a year and a half later... Carl said in this thread I would know for sure--and yeah, this is from the Agnes Nixon return that I really like (Nov 93 to about Nov/Dec 94). I always wonder if there was any advertising at the time about her return--it doesn't seem like it. Her Loving return featured, as Carl also says, a large cast, but also is one of her several rather Gothic eras (I guess she had just written the whole Natalie in a well/Wildwind/wife in the attic stuff for AMC so maybe it was a phase in general), leading off with the whole Dante's "pet" story that introduced Tess (the pet being of course Curtis) and later going into the ridiculous but, I thought, enjoyable Gilbert--Jeremy's evil twin--story. I watched all this as it aired, but there used to be more of the Dante stuff on YT--it all seems to be gone, which is too bad. (Oh, I think she also introduced Jacob--speaking of doubles--but that may have been Addie Walsh's brief period after her which was an interim before Brown/Esensten came to close off the show). I really wish there was some interview or writing about why she returned and the stories, but of course it doesn't seem to be mentioned anywhere. Sadly that May 4th episode seems to be gone and I missed it--however a month back the same person posted the May 6th episode following the May 5th one which is still linked here, and I haven't seen it in this thread yet, so here ya go (the sound goes badly off sync in the middle for four or so minutes but gets back). Some funny stuff, even if nothing major was happening in these episodes.

Some of the audience seemed to catch on in general. Austin Texas of course pulled the show due to protests when Carla kissed the black doctor. And several sources have quoted this letter from a bigot (male) in Seattle: I protest that white woman kissing that black ape doctor. But I’m getting confused. If Carla turns out to be black, I want to register a protest for her kissing the white Dr. Craig Marcy, dressed as Nicki, was going to kill Vince and frame Vicki/Nicki. Steve confronted her and Marcy decided to change her plan to kill Steve (Vicki's husband of course). During the struggle Marcy dropped her purse (which had a note from "Nicki" talking about her plan) and a vagrant stole it--Steve lunged for the gun and it went off, killing Marcy. Ed Hall was convinced Steve killed Marcy and the only evidence that it was in self defense was in that purse. At the very last minute a stranger coming into town found the purse--it was Joe Riley. Joe was suffering from a fatal brain aneurysm and didn't want to reveal his return, memory gain, bla bla, so he sent the evidence to Steve's lawyer and Steve got off. And francesca James moved to Pine Valley The Marcy storyline always seems like one of those great, crazy-ass Agnes Nixon stories that I admit to loving, yet it rarely ever gets mentioned in soap books, etc--and yet every fan of OLTL I know who watched back then seems to remember and love it.

I know she was a producer for the final year of Search for Tomorrow--but that's all I know The 1/3 black audiences must have been some private poll or something. The Nielsens didn't take *any* demos at the time--that started sometime in the early 70s when they realized the "importance" of the 18-49 age range though I know nothing about them starting to keep track of viewers outside of gender and age. I wouldn't doubt it, myself--where else in daytime (and barely in primetime) could black viewers see black characters in an actual storyline at that time? But, I'm not sure how official we can take that number (and would it be 1/3 across the country or just in NYC?) Not that it really matters. AMC certainly did not have a "big black story" at first--in fact its original setup was very WASPish and traditional (ironic since Nixon so wanted to move out of, as she said, "WASP Valley" when she created OLTL--but of course she wrote AMC's bible--which she stuck to extremely closely--back in 1964-65). I *believe* (Carl can you correct me?) that Frank Grant joined in 1971 as a doctor at the hospital--basically a sounding board--and Nancy Grant, his wife, first appeared in 1972. In All Her Children, published in Jan 1976, author Dan Wakefield in his long interview with Agnes Nixon about upcoming stories tells him how she finally has found "the room" to tell their story that she's wanted to for a few years and that it should start soon--so... 1975 ish I guess?), and Dan mentions he's glad because Frank has had no life of his own so far and Nancy has barely appeared. She goes on about how the story will not be related to race but to gender issues--and I know the major story they got involved Nancy wanting to move to Chicago (?) to be a social worker or something but Frank not willing to relocate himself, even though he had a job there he could take, just for her sake. So she moved anyway and I believe had a non-sexual romance there, eventually Frank coming to his senses, etc. However as far as I know their next major story came with the introduction of Jesse. So long story short, she is mistaken there.

I've just finally watched these now. Great (and also depressing) stuff. I will say that as to Arley's firing, I think this is ONE instance where Ellen is projecting--I hate to say or suspect that, I can understand where she's coming from, but... In Llanview in the Afternoon the various interviewed people make it sound like ABC never had all that much faith in Arley (remember it was Nixon who hired Stuart away to Loving--I think too since he was starting there he said he would get a bigger chunk of the profits or something) and it seems like she was kinda a place holder, and as soon as Rauch showed interest they jumped at hiring this "super producer". For contractual reasons originally it was said Arley and Rauch would co-produce (has that ever worked? I guess technically DAYS has done that), but that everyone there knew Rauch would never go for that and Arley was just quietly dismissed. As Vee said, Marilyn Chris chose to retire. I do wonder if Malone et al. were considering doing more with the Woleks. The 25th Anniversary episode (which wasn't a clips episode) is anchored by scenes between Larry and Wanda talking about how great Llanview is, etc, (to... one of the kids who had just been rescued... CJ?) And then a month or two later Wanda, who was still being seen relatively regularly, left, and that was when we began to see virtually nothing of Larry except in the hospital (to be fair that started happening when his last Dan recast left in 1991). Maybe when Chris left they just decided to give up on the Woleks? I mean I know the Vegas became their working class family on the show, and were hispanic, etc, but...

Although Agnes Nixon kept ownership of LOV so she would have had final say--unlike at OLTL, so I'd like to think she wouldn't have allowed it (even if she appears to have only returned to actually do all that much with the writing during her first two (?) year stint when Marland left and then in very late 93-94. As for joining AMC--though ABC owned the show, of course at that time Agnes could have gotten them on it. I hate to say this, but it might have been felt (not necessarily by Agnes but by TPTB) that AMC already had its "fair share" of major black characters at that time?

Thanks! Really ANY critical reviews like this from AMC at ANY era (even recently), OLTL during the 60s/70s and the first Malone era and Loving would be of help for my focus. As you say somewhere here... most of the soap press really wasn't offering critical views at all, so I know it's pretty obscure stuff, but... Nice to see you again as well

I came here looking for this review as I wanted to pull quotes from it for a Masters thesis I'm doing about Nixon and AMC and soaps and critics (to put it in general terms), and remembered this being posted. Re-reading it now is kinda hysterical. She REALLY doesn't hold back in the second half. It's funny this was in 1974 and the excellent (my fave as everyone here might remember) book All Her Children by Dan Wakefield was written between 1974-75 and all about his immense love for the show and how new and different it feels--they sound like they're talking about completely different shows. I am biased towards AMC and AGnes Nixon but I admit that AMC in some ways felt like a throwback--it used the classic structure ATWT introduced of a rich but troubled family vs a middle class but "good" family which was very old fashioned compared to what Nixon did when she started One Life to Live with its four urban fractured families (as well as the Lords but they were different than traditional soap rich families)--though of course that became lost by the 1980s, and even more to the point Nixon of course wrote the bible for AMC back in 63-65, so first. However, I think the reviewer fails to realize that characters like Pheobe were *meant* to be somewhat caricatures in the classic Dickens sense--or that Nixon did use soap cliches but in a knowing sometimes even self referential way (although most people generally feel AMC didn't really come into its own--and gain better production values until the second half of the 1970s). As others have suggested this magazine also seemed to have an agenda against all the attention AMC was getting in the press compared to "their" shows. Anyway, thanks for posting this all those years back!

Fascinating--thanks so much for linking these.

Oh, I believe that!

I think because Y&R is seen as such a classic, traditional soap now, people forget that, according to the soap books and press, when it started some complained it was too youth focused. Both Schemering and LaGuardia write about the fact that Nixon's soaps, especially AMC, did focus on youth and bring in a youth audience but would routinely balance it out with only one youth related storyline--Y&R in its early days was criticized by some soap fans as having nearly all youth based storylines (of course, hence the title).

"I agree. ABC and NBC seemed to dominate for decades. Y&R kind of got neglected, especially for it's first decade. None of those early actors were ever submitted for awards to my knowledge. Even the covers of soap mags rarely put Y&R on it. " I think some of it had to do with maybe the fact that it was on CBS? CBS in the 70s, while still having a very large audience (with ATWT remaining the top soap in viewers until the late 70s I believe, despite not remaining the top in the most desirable demo) was largely seen as more traditional. If you read some of the early, then new daytime fan magazines in the very early 70s (I'm talking 71-72, which is where I've seen issues so before Y&R) there does seem to be an undertone of bias against the ABC soaps--at least the Nixon ones, and I wonder if regular CBS fans had little interest in Y&R in the early days when--at least according to the 1970s soap books like LaGuardia's ones (Soap World, etc) was seen as focusing more on the young, on Hollywood style production values, on the beautiful and often "nearly naked!" (which I realize basically meant they started having shirtless men which was still pretty rare on soaps) cast, etc. LaGuardia mentions (and he was a fan) that it mixed traditional soap elements with more fantasy elements (daydream sequences, musical scenes) that were more reminiscent of the Hummert's radio soaps than tv was used to. Whatever that means. Certainly Y&R quickly got good ratings in the 1970s--so I am going out on a limb here, but I wonder if there is some bias. I've seen very little 1970s Y&R--I remember when the pilot was on youtube, and an episode involving the Brooks' matriarch and breast cancer I think (I wish I had saved them). It certainly felt sophisticated right from the start. Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of the P&G soaps, but recently when I uploaded those two 1970 AMC episodes that used to be on Nixon's site I was also watching some early 1970s ATWT episodes. While it was solid soap opera, and the very early AMC episodes certainly feel less sophisticated than the show did by what I've seen of the late 70s, still, the difference between 1970 AMC and ATWT is very striking--ATWT with its organ music and writing style feeling far more traditional. While Bell's style is pretty different from Nixon's, I can imagine that fans of the traditional soaps may have had some resentment to his shows when they started, the way that some of them did towards OLTL and especially, it seems, AMC. (These shows also balanced characters well by age--unlike many soaps of the past two decades--but keep in mind that there was a feeling, I gather from all fo the soap literature of the 1970s I've read, that they were appealing to a new, previously not heavily tapped audience--by that time even the New York Times had printed articles about how big these soaps were becoming on campuses.) Just some rambley thoughts... And one more thing--as mentioned, at least in the 80s and since, it seems like the two soaps that did get featured on the cover, and apparently sell the best, for SOD were DAYS and GH--even when their actual ratings (especially with Days) were not so hot. So it might just be something about those fanbases.

I started watching Loving pretty regularly in... 92 I think when they had the week-long AMC cross over (I wish some of that was online) involving chasing Carter Jones to Corinth (Hannah and Dinah Lee had earlier encountered him while staying in Pine Valley at Myrtle's). There was some good stuff back then but yes, it was still suffering, as it mostly did, it seems, from too much turn around. But I have to say, I loved most of Nixon's 1994 (probably her last long stint as HW, excluding her co-HW AMC stuff in 99-2000). It had a lot of crazy Gothic stuff that Agnes likes to do--like Dante coming on with his "pet" who turned out to be Curtis in a cage, but mostly worked and she did good stuff with Angie.

I asked this in the Video thread--so excuse me for asking it again, but youtube used to have a 1969 episode of OLTL that's long gone. Did anyone happen to save it? I believe it had to do with Meredith Lord.

Hey

Yeah--as my work load/school load this month lessens, I hope to post more. I'll check out the videos--I have kept fairly up to date with Munecojim's Loving vids.

I've been so busy--I'll have to hunt them down!! For OLTL that would have been shortly after Russell died, right?

Apparently none of them bothered to youtube her name since September like I just did, I guess I agree with your post completely. It took me a couple of days to watch it all the way thorugh, though honestly I'm glad I did.

Brick Manrock also has had some major theatre success, though it's too bad his Sweet Bird of Youth with Diane Lane didn't move to Broadway (then again, I think she didn't want to do it that long.) I completely agree--the character was not exacly conceiv ed well but he was one of the last younger actors on the network version who could really act. I just stumbled upon this from the past September--apologies if it's been posted. And man, it was a bit hard for me to watch just because I have NEVER seen Agnes seem so frail

One of the main writers on the small writing team is Tanya Saracho who is latina (and I think a lesbian,) and she said in an interview that much of the Hispanic elements in season 1 came from her, but I tend to agree. Queer as Folk (the remake) suffered, as I've stated before, from wanting to represent "every gay--and lesbian," (something they failed quite miserably at, really, since it was such a white show.) And it didn't work. While I know this polarized people, part of the appeal of the series for me was the "indie film" style where agendas didn't seem to be particularly pressed. I'm gonna trust this will continue, but I understand the trepidation people may have to the news. (With the bumps in some of the cast going to regulars, it's not like, even with two more episodes, the show really has a ton of room to flesh out more characters anyway, but they are listed as supporting.)

Apparently at least for this season it is (even with more episodes, there are only so many characters they can feature.) Obviously, I cynically say, they felt the pressure from those who complained the show was not diverse enough (though I'm sure they will still get flack for not having a gay Asian in San Francisco...)

Looking has added a transgender character for its upcoming second season. The HBO series is expected to return in early 2015, and will feature three new recurring characters, TV Line reports. Sammie, a female-to-male transgender character, lives at a shelter where Agustín gets a job, following his crisis at the end of last season. Meanwhile, the new episodes will also introduce viewers to Malik, an African-American employee in the San Francisco mayor’s office, as well as Richie’s new redheaded boyfriend, Brady. Russell Tovey has been upgraded to a series regular for the new season, alongside fellow recurring stars Lauren Weedma, who plays Doris, and Raul Castillo, who appears as Richie. Looking received mixed reviews when it debuted in January, and attracted modest ratings, but eventually secured a renewal from HBO for 10-episode second season.

Ha! LOL *very flattered*