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Everything posted by EricMontreal22

  1. This was my thought--the Zoe/Zarf story 10+ years back was written better, and that was hardly a masterpiece (though I do think it had some built in obstacles like the opinion that they were trying to find a stealth way to pair Bianca with a man). But a lot of it in hindsight did work as did the classic Agnes Nixon technique (which I think Bradley Bell *has* used) of showing a meeting of "real life" people going through a transition interacting in a support meeting with Zoe. I just don't think Bradley Bell can tell stories like that. It's sad that McTavish can better...
  2. I had forgotten what was said and wanted to know for my essay--and of course no longer can find the video anywhere... The US airing of Cucumber/Banana was atrocious--wrong aspect ratio (I'm talking about Logo), edited for mudity of course (it always seems odd to me that Logo of all channels doesn't allow nudity) and the distinctive score was ripped to shreds for movie rights. The US release of the UK Queer as Folk had the same music issues (it's just not the same when, say, Sexy Boy is replaced by generic dance beats) but no content editing. I hope the streaming version is better. I hope Amazon is not the US TV edit of Cucumber/Banana. I mostly loved it (Banana, which Davies didn't write most of, is more hit or miss being more of an anthology show but is always interesting and it's wonderful how they casually integrate the character's into Cucumber). Without giving a spoiler, in case you don't know there's a scene in Cucumber that confirms that it exists in the same universe as QAF. A LOT of people didn't like it (bla bla bla, the characters are too unlikeable, who wants to see less than perfect looking middle aged men, bla bla) but I loved it. So much so that I found out it never got a BluRay release anywhere but in Germany so ordered (at a good price) the German BluRay (region free, uncut) which has both shows.
  3. Sussman started that story before she quit but didn't get to really write it, but in an exit interview she mentioned how she was warned repeatedly, while TPTB were all for it, that Y&r had the most conservative audience out of the soaps and basically told that it could be put to a stop at any minute depending on viewer reaction. In speaking online with Kay Alden briefly for my MA essay she basically flat out said that they were told during most of her time on the show to not even think to pitch a gay story. Right, I see both points. I guess in theory, too, I was thinking of the stereotypical straight female soap audience enjoying seeing all those shirtless men--if they could get past any prejudices wouldn't the shot of two shirtless men together appeal to them more than a lesbian romance? But of course that's a lot of presumption on my part and of course lesbians make up the audience too. I will say that I know one of the writers of the US Queer as Folk (which I wasn't a fan of) who said to me once that their show wouldn't have lasted as long as it did without the rabid "middle aged straight female" fanbase. He was being somewhat flippant as he always is, but... And when I was 17 desperate to watch the UK Queer as Folk which I had heard so much about (and do love) as it was just airing with no assumption that it would ever play in N America, back in 1999, a woman contacted me who was from my city and saw a post of mine. She had a British friend who was taping the show, sending her the tapes, then this woman was converting them to NTSC format all so that she could watch each episode ASAP and saying if I met up with her she would give me copies of them. I did and it was the most surreal thing--she was a middle aged, married woman and mother who worked at a tiny hair salon out in the boonies (I don't even remember where, except that I had to take several buses...) And she was incredibly sweet--the only payback she wanted was that I would spend a cup of coffee with her when I picked up each tape to discuss it with her. While I quickly loved the show I realized her top obsession with it, even more so it was for me, was the aspect of guessing who would pair up (romantically and sexually) with who--and I quickly realized she wasn't the only 40 something straight woman watching for that. So... Oh absolutely, and I hate to think that was the impression I gave at all. Sadly it's frustratingly incomplete on YT--partly because it essentially played to some degree (often on the back burner) throughout November 1995 (when Michael Delaney moves in with his sister and brother in law Trevor and starts teaching at PVHigh, with no one knowing his "secret" that Laurel is scared he'll reveal--conveniently ushering in a new :"teen scene" of SORASED characters) and, focusing on Kevin, goes on till December 1997 or early 98 when Kevin is just faded out of the show with the switch from Broderick's writing to McTavish's much loathed second tenure work. A lot of the early stuff through to the Feb 96 Cutting Edge show, shooting and trial are on in full episodes on YT but it gets more spotty following the later story points with entire months missing. But I do hope you track down some of it and enjoy it--I feel it's vastly underrated (and it's no wonder AMC won three back to back Best Writing Emmys apparently almost all related to material submitted connected to these stories). While I have a ton of fondness for the Broderick era of the 90s I will say it had some massive misfires (the Tanner Jordan/Hayley/Matteo saga anyone? The Infamous Erica kidnapping storyline?), but still holds up for me very well (the most dated aspect really is that that was during an era where it, like OLTL, used a nearly constant synth score that just would never stop--a bit like DAYS always does Drives me crazy ) Apparently ABC never felt like promoting the storyline or championing it much despite the wins, but were fine with letting it play out if it didn't dominate. I think there are a few reasons that, despite Kevin being one of the few gay characters at that time who actually lasted just over two years, it often gets completely forgotten when gay storylines are mentioned in magazines etc, is that for one thing it was sandwiched between two much more famous teen coming out soap storylines--OLTL's Billy Douglas one, which had more media attention, the AIDS quilt (Broderick purposefully wanted to NOT tell an AIDS story at AMC) and from a modern perspective had Ryan Phillippe, and then it was closely followed by Bianca's coming out
  4. That's why I thought the Kevin storyline on AMC worked so well and I appreciated how slowly it was played, coming out of the Michael Delaney storyline and the shooting (a true umbrella storyline). He was disowned, sent to deprogramming (tricked to it--I think the first example of that shown on American TV) would try to reconnect with his brother in jail who would constantly call him fag, taken under the wing by Opal who, despite good intentions, still tries to push him to be straight (and we have the "twist" that only Palmer out of those helping him seems to have any understanding of the situation despite at the time still being a pretty ruthless character), etc, etc. His mom did sorta come around but it took well over a year.
  5. I never thought of Making Love as a bi movie--at the time it wasn't marketed as such. But I do think it's actually pretty good -- I know it underperformed and for a while was kinda derided by gay audiences, but I think it succeeds at what it intended to do. Though in the past they've found ways to manage to make these stories WTD stories (kinda).
  6. Ah and then we can just get a series of rotating Lucky recasts, with Vaughan returning when Young tires of the role...
  7. Like a lot of the media, GLBT characters seem to be kinda treated all as one issue on soaps--but this raises a good point. Particularly when it comes to gay or lesbian storylines and how soaps don't seem capable of having both at the same time. But does one go over better than the other with viewers? It seems early storyline attempts involved lesbians (though some of this may have just been dictated--as I mentioned originally AMC was gonna do a gay storyline when ABC said they already had a gay male storyline on Dynasty so to make it a lesbian story). And subsequently it seems like gay male characters have been he focus, with the very major exception of Bianca (which was *partly* because the goal from the start was to make the gay character Erica's child so if she had had a son it probably would have been a gay son) and to a lesser degree the slow build of Olivia and Natalia on GL and of course whatever is going on with Mara now on Y&R. But I'm curious since you mention a primarily female soap audience--would they take better to lesbians or gay men? Is there a diff? On one hand soaps have traditionally been scared (like Hollywood) of even letting its female fans know that one of their male leads is played by a gay actor as it might ruin their fantasies (a crazy idea but one that I've seen actually play out time and time again with some fans). On the other hand there have been straight women who have fantasized about gay relationships since at least the Star Trek slash fiction days and with *younger* female audiences that seems to have entered the mainstream (though are younger women watching soaps?) I mean the only comic reader group that is still growing in N America are readers of YAOI manga translations (gay romances primarily written and targeted at straight young women). And soaps do have a small but not insignificant history of having a gay male viewership.
  8. I agree with all that. The only reason I tend to look over MHMH is it was under none of the restrictions (or few) that the daytime soaps of its time were. It was syndicated, and usually late at night, so had no network interference, no P&G interference, no assumption that it was playing to a conservative audience of housewives, no concern that children might turn the show on... MHMH sorta exists for me in its own unique soap universe and didn't have to play by the same rules, in fact part of its point was that it didn't play by the same rules. Speaking of I'm curious as to how Marland dealt with homosexuality (was it just to titilate? I think it was lesbian?) on Showtime's New Day in Eden. That sounds familiar--and I had forgotten about the whole Mel/Mel thing.
  9. That does make sense when you put it that way--I guess it's more that I'm not sure why Llanview suddenly would be so keen on a gay mayor. A pro-gay mayor I could see (even if still a bit of an idealized fantasy). I did like the woman who played her assistant/wife (who I think they quickly got rid of with the story)
  10. I haven't read these ones but do have some others--I have the three AMC ones from 1980 that covered 1970s storylines by romance novelist Rosemarie Santini: Tara and Philip, The Lovers, and Erica. Apparently these started the trend. Santini isn't a great writer but she's not bad either and they're a fun, quick read that seem to stick closely to the original scripts. (They go for 20 or so bucks even used so I better make sure I still have my copies as I haven't seen them since I moved in the Summer https://www.amazon.com/Agnes-Nixons-Children-Book-Philip/dp/0515048925/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1544916269&sr=1-2 In the mid 80s/late 80s Pioneer Books launched their Soaps and Serials label (they were a romance book publisher too) I have one of their Y&R books and that seemed to be their most successful with 7 or 8 volumes, but they did a LOT of soaps. I have their OLTL one, and I think in the back it advertises ones for GL, etc...
  11. Oh I liked it for what it was (even if the Dorian impetus to pretend to be lesbian made no sense--couldn't she have just instead gone on the platform of being pro gay--doing something good again for her own benefit--and gotten the same result?) I didn't mean to sound like I didn't. It was actually one of the few camp Carlivati stories I thoroughly enjoyed (and a Jackie Hoffman cameo as a homophobe no less!) It was just poor timing -- something Valentini probably should really be held responsible for.
  12. Although that has been a BIG issue with B&B for a while now (think of Thorne for years). Characters on recurring just NEVER come back even when they should. Young prob saw the writing on the wall.
  13. GH is in some ways the one that drives me the craziest for just that reason. I had heard that in past decades the writers were told to put a lid on how many gay characters--Bianca on AMC was extremely popular so keep her, give her a gf or two, but when she's on that means we can't introduce a major gay male character (and vice versa I assume). When Bianca hadn't come out Greenlee and Leo saw her in a lesbian bar--theyw ere slumming for fun or something. I always found it amusing that there was a lesbian bar in or near Pine Valley and that Bianca never seemed to hang out there again..) Carlivati of course showed what CAN go wrong when OLTL became the gay hour for a while--the Kish storyline was going on and at the same time was the Dorian pretends to be lesbian to become mayor (that makes so much sense....) and the mass gay wedding for all the apparent gay citizens of Llanview, etc--all played as camp. (That was not long before Kish were both fired and their story cut with rumours that viewers were uncomfortable with the gay stuff, but I suspect it wasn't Kish--who had a following--so much that all this stuff was playing at the same time). (Of course I can't blame Carlivati for OLTL's earlier gay serial killer mess) AGreed on both counts. A bi love triangle would have huge possibilities but none of the soaps are equipped to tell one right now (and they'd have to not make it obvious that the "straight" relationship is the end game) Me too!! Especially after attending a Q&A with Maupin in the Summer. I admit I hope they change some details of the last two books (which seem like where the storylines are going to be drawn from although they're going off on their own path)--I enjoyed them, though it DID seem like Maupin to some extent WAS checking boxes in a way he didn't use to--MtF character, check, asexual, check, etc, etc. If these characters are given more of their own identities in the TV series this won't be an issue.
  14. Reid was great. Unfortunately Passanante and crew didn't seem to know what to do with him and were too scared to actually break up Nuke for good (though that's become a common problem with soaps and "supercouples" not just gay ones--it's always obvious to the audience who the writers are keeping as endgame). The UK soaps, at least in the past ten-fifteen years (even the more old fashioned ones like Corrie) have been much better at exactly this--they have their own issues with gay characters (and as much as I enjoy watching Hollyoaks--at least occasionally--sometimes it seems ridiculous how many gay/bi characters come and go there) but have been pretty good at getting to a place where the gay characters aren't defined primarily for being gay. But I do definitely think we're well past the "honeymoon" period that all minorities seem to have to go through where, when they're finally accepted, they have to be saintly. I get why often that sorta has to happen--if you introduced one of the first gay characters to a soap in the 1990s and they were a villainous slut it... well it would have done no one, especially gay people any favours. But I mean that was ages ago. (That said an aspect of the gay press *still* complains when gay characters are presented in a "poor" light, as do some gay people I know, most annoyingly). I don't have much faith in DAYS or Carlivati, but I agree and I also agree that even if it alienates some of the audience, it IS something that has to be risked at now. Of course we all know that, as Michael Malone himself said in a recent interview, since the 2000s soaps, as ratings continue to plummet, soaps have oddly gotten increasingly conservative and less willing to take risks. It's interesting while writing my AMC "gay" paper I was watching some Bianca episodes and I forgot that for a few weeks they brought in Kelli O'Hara of all people (who I don't think was much of a Broadway name at the time) as a one night stand who becomes a threat to whoever Binks was seeing at the time... But they seem to chicken out very quickly and just drop it. Yep yep, I pretty much agree with all of this. And while it's easy to say "soaps are so crappy right now I don't even want to see them try" but, maybe I just can't be that cynical, I do think they should keep trying. (And while I think the case for minorities--by which I pretty much mean black characters--on soaps right now is dire--they also went through decades of this where it simply wasn't considered that a black character could become romantic with a white one...)
  15. I never really get that attitude myself, though it seems common. I mean I think Ron Carlivati mostly sucks at writing gay characters, but, maybe I'm just an optimist, that doesn't mean I wish he'd simply never try. It strikes me as absolutely ridiculous that any modern soap now wouldn't have gay characters and, I mean my current issue about the writing applies to all of the characters gay and straight. At this point I don't think poor writing for the gay characters is negatively affecting potentially bigotted viewers into thinking less of gay people in real life. I get that audiences still will stop watching. At the same time, say, "Nuke" on ATWT gave that show in some of its roughest, crappiest era some sort of zeitgeist moment and if they had just not had those characters on the show wouldn't have been any better.
  16. I'll let you know if those interviews ever resurface online I'm not sure, because Agnes was already preparing to hand over the reigns full on to Russell when Dorian was created in '73 (and he may have had a lot to do with her creation). She did help cast Strasser in the role when she was unhappy with her character on AMC and originally was offered a recast of Cathy Craig on OLTL (which woulda been a weird fit--funny to think how Cathy in many ways was the big 1970s OLTL heroine). I think they had a friendly rapport. They ALWAYS spoke highly of each other. They also seemed to always work on different Irna projects--Irna would split them off (for example Agnes helped create and shape As the World Turns but then Agnes was immediately moved to Guiding Light and Bill was brought to ATWT. Bill was working on AW with Irna but by the time Agnes came on to try to save it Bill had been moved to Days). There's a funny bit in All Her Children where the author is at Agnes' house and hementioned at dinner one of the daughter's says how a newer soap is copying AMC storylines--they're gonna have a facelift story, etc (the daughter also says it's unfair because that soap is done in Hollywood and so has all these beautiful actors). Agnes is quoted as saying that the writer of that soap is a very talented man so she trusts he'll do things in his own way. It's obvious who and what she means. I've always found it interesting that Bell and Nixon seemed to break off from the Irna tradition in different and distinctive ways and styles.
  17. Exactly. I can see him using gay characters only as a novelty plot point and I mean in the Passions examples I know and remember they very much were done as a joke (or threat)
  18. You mean JER completely botched his gay characters? *I* *AM* *SHOCKED* Ah right, the Tea and Sympathy storyline... Interestingly I just watched a 1983 AMC episode where Tad is in a cell with an older guy who was arrested basically for what anyone can see as soliciting--although he's very aggressive and not at all sympathetic. He keeps going on about how pretty Tad is and trying to get physical--it's very strange and I know it didn't go anywhere, but along the lines of prison rape... BTW VetSoapFan I owe you a PM! Sorry about that.
  19. I enjoyed it for what it was MUCH more the second time reading it where I could pick out what was really good about it and wasn't always disappointed with what was missing or incorrect. So I think if you go into it with, well I hate to say but, lowered expectations you'll get a lot out of it. Also, it's a very quick read so never a pain to get through. I forgot to say that there is. The 1988 Museum of TV (now Paley Center) 90 minute lecture she gives for OLTL's 20th, as well as part two of the massive five part lecture she gave there in 1997 for the World's Without End soap exhibit and conference are entirely focused on OLTL (the 1988 one makes it clear that--perhaps because she was still ABC head daytime consultant) she is still very aware of OLTL storylines into the 1980s although she's always quick to point out she didn't write them). Both used to be online--the 1988 one on agnesnixon.com in fact and sadly seem to now be only viewable at the Paley Center. So--I guess that's not much hope (I wish I had saved them while I could)
  20. Oh, I'd say it's even more true now--particularly because it seems like 70% of scripted programming (comedies and dramas) are serialized now, whereas in 1990 it was still something of a new thing. (Although on the other hand I think it's become a bit less of a stigma to at least claim that a lot of serialized TV tropes come from soap operas). Yeah, that kinda confused me--especially the argument about endless stories (with them claiming OLTL in the Rauch era didn't have these). I think most soaps have a mix of what they call endless stories and arc stories. But I guess soap opera is something that everyone has trouble defining, at least I come across diff definitions all the time. It seems like that attributed saying about pornography--you know it when you see it. I mean Dark Shadows is a soap--though if you described most of its storylines to someone they would never think it was. Primetime soaps often IMHO don't truly fit in with how I define daytime soaps, etc, etc. Victorian sensation serials read exactly like soaps (told in installments, cliffhangers, illegitimacy, doppelgangers, stories built on coincidence, tone switching wildly from melodrama to social comedy, back from the dead stories, etc) but even when adapted into a TV serial they're still never called soaps. Yeah, even then they were very keen to market it as a sort of prestige show. I think it's just a resentment that they see things soaps always did finally being picked up and used on primetime tv shows without acknowledging that soaps did them first. I kinda get that. But ultimately I agree that it doesn't matter. (It is interesting when I lived in England how there of course shows like Coronation Street and EastEnders are called soaps, but there is far less distinction between them and other primetime serials when you discuss them with the public.
  21. Right and famously networks were "wise" enough to forbid that (ie not letting Malone make Joey Buchanen gay on OLTL). I do think one gay storyline (and I made it the center of my essay) that gets ignored in a lot of the articles I found about gay storylines (including a number of academic articles) is the 2005-Michael Delaney storyline that moved to the Kevin Sheffield storyline and played out for a good 2 years--mainlyc reated by Lorraine Broderick and Hal Corley. Of course I was just the right age for it when it aired but often articles jump from the Billy Douglas storyline to Bianca coming out. Yet the Delaney storyline did a lot of first--he was tied to a core family (the Dillons)--they started it off with a Philadelphia like storyline of Trevor having to face his homophobia (eventually representing him in court against the school board that fires him) was involved with a ton of characters with the school holocaust/gay storyline, introduced Kevin Sheffield (though they hinted Scott Chandler might be gay) , then went to the whole Cutting Edge shooting of Laurel, then went into the Kevin gay stuff, and Kevin remained on the canvas including a gay conversion therapy storyline which I think may have been a first on American tv ever, and his friendship with Kelsey who was in love with him, etc (and just the fact that he remained a part of the youth scene and wasn't phased out was major). Of course with the writer change at the end of 1997 he literally disappeared from the show, but... Some clips of the later stuff:
  22. I just wrote my master's essay about this (well focusing on AMC and OLTL) so am too bored with it to say more But yah, I think Dr. Lynn was really the first major one--she was on for about 6-8 months (I haven't been able to nail down exact dates, because different people have said different things--). I also came across different reasons for the creation--several involved said Agnes specifically had wanted to tell a gay male story for a while--ABC allowed her a gay story but said that they already had a gay male on their network--Steven on Dynasty--so they should do a lesbian character(I guess one of each gender was all that was allowed). However Wisner Washam has said that the idea for a lesbian must have came, he assumed, from EP Jacquelin Babbin who was a lesbian. I think theyw ere ambitious--they hired Donna Pescow to play the role who of course 5 years earlier had starred in Sat Night Fever and was considered pretty glamorous (of course her SNFever co-star had left the role of Tara by then). The thing is she interacted almost only with Devon Shepherd--who was suffering from being left by her husband (I think) and had become an alcoholic--they met at a bar, Lynn was a shrink who had just moved to PV after breaking up with her partner. Devon begins falling in love with Lynn but Lynn gently lets her down revealing she's just experience transference and isn't really a lesbian. I've only seen some episodes but I remember one that I had a clip of on an old VHS I was given of 1983 episodes where around Christmas Lynn is lonely, packing up her apartment to move back (strikingly the other characters that episode are all with family, celebrating Christmas--I'm sure the intention wasn't to suggest gays are lonely, but...) Still they were careful witht he material--making it very clear that gay people are born that way, that it's not an issue, that hey're not predatory. Here's her coming out scene to Devon which sounds a bit like an afterschool special, but... (I mean to even have a lesbian on a tv show for six months was quite something in 1983 where on primetime tv gays were almost entirely relegated to "very special episodes" and never seen again). Here she is coming out (at 4:45). Significantly she seems to have only one scene in this VERY packed episode. The problem with gay storylines of course was they were treated like social issue storylines. However with most social issue storylines the issue would be resolved--for example you had Donna on AMC the teen hooker. Eventually, Donna's "social problem" is resolved, she is estranged from her pimp, and she is with Chuck and so can live a part of the PV community the idea being that for a character to be sustainable on a soap (this was the belief at the time) they had to be able to be a part of the community. But homosexuality (if they were telling the story responsibly) is not something that can be cured or change. And of course romantic pairings are usually the driving force of story and you need another gay character for that, and preferably more than one to create some tension, etc, etc. In my essay I then cover the Billy Douglas OLTL storyline which is more ambitious and more successful (his storyline affects and is intertwined with the broader canvas) but for a variety of reasons couldn't be sustained past the storyline (also of course they bailed on giving him a romance--Malone talked in an interview I found about a storyline involving a series of awkward double dates between him and his BF, who we saw briefly, and Joey and his girlfriend but ABC balked--also Ryan Phillippe's contract was already up and his agent wanted him on a hot primetime soapy miniseries--forget the name but it flopped--etc etc).
  23. I just recently re-read it for research for my soap MA paper. Damn it's a frustrating book as everyone here has said. On the one hand I understand why it is. The majority of it was written by her after her stroke--with the help of her son Bob Jr, who seems to have been the biggest support to his mom when her health deteriorated and in making sure the book got out but also seems to have no real experience of his own in watching and reading his mom's work so he'd fail to catch all the errors (surely there's someone they could have hired to do so?) She praises some of the One Life cast--of course Ellen Holly. And mentions a bit about creating it, but yeah... That said we have to keep in mind that she left One Life to Live in 1973 as HW and then was only a consultant for the rest of the 1970s. She'd have less direct memories there. YandR fan 23, there was no lawsuit. What happened was she was meant to offer AMC in 1964 to Proctor and Gamble, she's told this story many times but it's the same in the memoir--she even went to a meeting with P&G and the network and everything was OK and then at the very last minute they found out there was some conflict of legal interest with their sponsors and they had to keep a game show on so had no room for it. She then didn't bring it to ABC when they asked for a soap because she claims she had no confidence in it, feeling it was rejected possibly just because it was no good, and only used it at the last minute when in 1969 they asked for a new soap and quickly. I was also disappointed there was nothing about Loving. As for why it was created? Well because ABC wanted a new soap and came to her. But it also was meant to be particularly cutting edge when it came out with its social issue (the AIDS research, etc) AND the first soap centered around a college which was because of course OLTL and especially AMC had become such huge phenomenons on college campuses. Of course most of that was relatively quickly dropped, etc. It's funny as in the acknowledgements which were written pre-stroke she DOES mention Loving so maybe it was going to be discussed and after the stroke it wasn't. Another frustration of course is that Agnes still wants to come off as such a gentlewoman--which is admirable and surely one way how she managed to make way to the top among condescending men, but I wanted more JUICE finally (ie she could have explained what happened with Marland at Loving). She does drop her guard near the end--talking, albeit in vague terms about how network execs started sitting in on story meetings and would suggest characters they like interact even when there was no reason to, and deriding a certain writer who no longer made her "welcome" there and who wrote a big tornado story that cost a lot of money but the writers never thought of any follow through stories to come out of it (OBVIOUSLY this is Pratt). There are a few other tidbits that are interesting but then never fully elaborated on--like how Chris Bruno (Michael Delaney) didn't know he was playing a gay character and was homophobic but came around while playing his role and gave a very moving speech for GLAAD. Also the stuff about her pre post past is interesting--especially how much her first love who died in the war stayed with her and influenced story, and her lesbian roomate in college, etc. But yeah SUCH a very missed opportunity.Still I used a few quotes for my essays
  24. I found the article about primetime shows becoming more serialized and refusing the soap term interesting (especially the little bit with the cast of thirtysomething--I love thirtysomething but talk about being defensive. I don't even understand Ken Olin's comment, and Patricia Wettig's opinion that soaps have lesser writing and all melodrama is a bit ironic considering the TV movies and series like Alias and Prison Break that she went on to do.) I did appreciate the different terms though--they seem to think OLTL is more an "arc" show than a soap... hrmm
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