GLATWT88

I've always read that there was a lot of behind the scenes drama and antics on the set of Beverly Hills, 90210. There seemed to be lots of tension in particular with the female cast members. I know Shannen had her issues with everyone which isn't a surprise and Jennie Garth had some issue with Tiffani. There was also lots of rumors of hookups and drug use, but I think when you have a particularly young cast those things were the norm.

On 5/26/2020 at 3:20 AM, Paul Raven said:

NOV 1985

A DAILY soap opera depicting the lifestyles of the black community is under development by O.J. Simpson's Orenthal Productions and Ralph Edwards Productions in association with Columbia Pictures TV. The serial, called Heart and Soul, is being developed for syndication. It will revolve around the music industry and will feature original music produced in stereo. Stephen Karpf, Elinor Karpf and Jason Karpf, whose previous credits include the daytime soaps General Hospital and Capitol, will serve as head writers and producers on the drama.

So Empire but for daytime. 

10 hours ago, te. said:

 

I think it's worth to remember that ABC had plans to cancel the entire soap block - they basically kept GH because they didn't want to get rid of them all at once, but if those shows that replaced AMC and OLTL had been successful, then GH would've been off the air within a year or two. As it was, it ended up being GH keeping the lights on in the ABC daytime block despite declining ratings.

I didn't realize that the idea of cancelling the entire soap lineup was floating around. Somehow, GH is still on 8 years later and the replacement shows for AMC and OLTL long gone, which really makes the death of both shows feel worse. Surprisingly, Days is also still on. After Passsions was off the air, it seemed inevitable that Days would meet its demise very soon, yet somehow it's survived numerous cancellation threats and out lasted 4 other soaps that have been cancelled since Passions. 

12 minutes ago, All My Shadows said:

I don't recall OLTL having plans to go west. It was said over and over and over and over again in those days that Franklin had the show "coming in under budget" while AMC was soaking up all kinds of funds.

I'm probably just remembering it incorrectly. If OLTL was coming in under budget why cancel it? It wasn't like it was worse off in HH and demos than GH. I wonder what made AMC so expensive. 

14 minutes ago, amybrickwallace said:

 

AMC did. OLTL stayed in New York.

You're right! I just remember reading around the time AMC was preparing to move or had already moved to LA that OLTL was supposedly moving also. I guess that didn't happen or maybe I'm just remembering this wrong.

32 minutes ago, Faulkner said:

I think he looks better than he’s ever looked with some age on him. He was always good-looking but rather blandly so IMO. Now he really pops.

I agree. I was never really into his look until recently.

8 minutes ago, Vizion said:

JY recently did an IG live where he confirmed he will not be returning to B&B. He moved away and it wasn't worth the commute basically. 

 

I wasn't crazy about his Rick but I didn't really like anyone in the role. 

That sucks. I didn't like him on AMC and it took a while to warm up to Rick, but I actually enjoy the character now.  

I don't know where to leave this so I'm just going to leave it here 

I'm just going to leave this here.

I was parched because I was feeling this thirst trap

I liked seeing Lucas and agree that he feels like Days to me as well. Pregnant baby Kirsten Dunst is just doing nothing for me. The character is just so bland that I really don't care - maybe if Sami comes back and gives her a good slap and we find out the father of the baby, I might be more invested. 

5 minutes ago, Forever8 said:

Wendy Moniz who played Dinah Marler from 1995 to 1999. She went onto Primetime and was married to her GL onscreen lover Frank Grillo who played Hart Jessup. They divorced this year after two decades of marriage. 

Ugh! I hate it everytime I hear that a couple that's been together that long is getting divorced. However, you don't know what's going on in anyone's life or marriage. But 20 years is a long time, but I guess if you're truly unhappy what's the point. 

Thanks for the info. I started watching later and I knew Gina Tognoni as Dinah. I personally enjoyed Gina, but I never knew any other actress as Dinah. 

Good idea. Get those podcasts out. In the meantime, all soaps need to be reduced to half hour, relocate to Georgia or somewhere cheaper than LA (didn't AMC and OLTL relocate to LA from NYC for budget reasons?) Shoot two episodes per day and film for only 6 months out of the year. Those ratings are not looking good. 

I found this as I was watching promos for GL from 1993 on YouTube. This was a special promo for the NYC area as Guiding Light was moving to its new timeslot at 10am. Weird how I've looked for this info in the early/mid 2000s as to when GL moved to 10am on my CBS, and recently have found two sources.

Who's the actress in the frame? She's the only one I don't recognize from when I started watching.

26 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

At the risk of sounding sanctimonious, I had little problem believing both Ellen Holly and Victoria Rowell's accounts when I first read/heard them.  Perhaps it was my own personal experience as a black woman, experiencing micro-aggressions before an official definition even came into being.  Experiencing condescension masquerading as complements. Being denied opportunities then finding out months, sometimes years later that my white male colleagues asked for the same thing and were granted their requests with no discernible reason why. 

 

My only issue with VR was that, I knew that the more she talked, the more alienation she would experience. Peter Bergman's insinuation about her mental stability, being just one example. I'd witnessed some women and black women, in particularly, being labeled either crazy or hysterical, if they were insistent in their outspokenness. It made me uncomfortable to watch this unfold because I recognized her talent and realized the penalty that she'd likely pay would blowback on her career prospects.  I'm so glad she didn't care what I or anyone else thought and kept speaking out. She has come out on the other end looking a lot better than many of her colleagues who criticized her.

I've said this before, I wish there was a like function because there's not much I can add but I agree with your post. I also feel VR has received so much backlash (more so) for speaking out because she is a woman and then the idea that she's just bitter because she keeps fighting the issue. 

I wonder what everyone would think if they did podcast/radio episodes to keep the story going when the new episodes ran out.

48 minutes ago, Darn said:

 

Soaps have been doing this for YEARS now! Always ahead of the curve daytime is.

25 minutes ago, Fevuh said:

I just don't agree with VR's take on her Y&R obsession and I don't even know why she would want to go back.  She's worked since.  Other actors haven't said anything.  She should be imploring them to say how bad their work situation is.  

If you just said this, you would have been better off. I don't understand why VR would want to return to Y&R if she was so mistreated. I wonder why other actors have not also spoken out. I believe VR should try and get others to speak out as well. She's also worked since leaving Y&R so I'm not sure why she asks to be brought back.

I don't want to make it seem like you can't have an opinion on the VR situation, because you definitely can and you are entitled to it. But as a white male (as you claimed), saying that you don't understand why VR is the only one complaining and that she must be a troublemaker because she's the only AA saying anything is problematic. Do you think that maybe other AA actors that have faced injustices on Y&R or other shows don't speak up because there isn't much room for AA on TV as it is and speaking up may cost them their career. Sure it's easy to say Shemar has been quiet but he's been working in pretty high profile jobs and being the outspoken AA might not get you the job. 

19 minutes ago, Khan said:

 

This one's for you, and for the others in the back:  WHITE PRIVILEGE HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH FINANCIAL STATUS.  You could live on the streets of NYC in a cardboard box, with an old pickle jar for a toilet, and you're still gonna be treated differently (and better) than a Black man living under the exact same conditions.  White privilege and economic inequality only intersect when White America tells us that the reason why we aren't as wealthy as our Caucasian counterparts is because we aren't working hard enough; when, in fact, it's because your skin color has allowed you distinct advantages in the business world that ours never do.

 

And for God's sake, PLEASE spare us ALL any further talk of how being harassed by law enforcement on account of your Black bf helps you understand our situation better.  If anything, your ex should be the one sharing these experiences of how systemic racism has affected his life, not you.

 

I don't care how many times you've seen one of us harassed and/or threatened by cops for no reason.  I don't care how many (Black) men you've dated, or how many Black families you lived next to while growing up.  You could be Navin P. Johnson, for all I care, but unless you were born and have lived your entire life AS a Black man, you have No. Idea.

This. This is what I was trying to explain to @Fevuh

39 minutes ago, Fevuh said:

I was just such a fan of hers and over the years her griping has started to bother me.  I don't remember KSJ or Shemar Moore or many black actors/actresses complaining about how they were treated on Y&R.  Something just comes across as a trouble maker.  Crystal Khalil (SP wrong I'm sure).  Mishael Morgan.  Whoever played Olivia.  And linking your former working relationship to Black Lives Matter is just weird to me when she had such success.  She was invited back for the KSJ memorial, and she's worked since Y&R.  Why is she so against Y&R? 

 

Someone will say this is white privilege, and I am white, but a gay male.  But I feel like VR could be the EP, Head Writer, Director, and own the show and she still wouldn't be happy.  

This is a clear example of white privilege. The fact that it bothers you that a black woman continues to talk about the injustices and poor treatment on a TV show because of the color of her skin. White people don't have to worry about finding representation on mainstream media, because they are well represented. They have plenty of space where they can find roles, where casting directors look like them, where execs look like them, etc. You have the privilege of being bothered by someone else's injustice instead of being directly impacted by it. 

Also, white privilege doesn't mean you didn't have a hard life or you didn't struggle. You can have white privilege and be poor, homeless, faced discrimination based on your sexual orientation, etc. There is a huge misunderstanding of the term. White privilege means that you didn't have to struggle or endure injustices because of the color of your skin. You yourself sad the cop only pulled you over because of your AA boyfriend, so you agree that race plays a significant role on the perceptions individuals have of certain people. America was a country founded on slavery and those roots of oppression have a hold on our country for its entire history and until there is healing, awareness and understanding things will change very slowly. Slavery and segregation didn't cease to exist in this country and then suddenly we didn't have a race problem. Forms of violence against AA people have been committed in more subtle ways or not so subtle such as disproportionate police brutality cases. 

32 minutes ago, janea4old said:

On June 17, 2020 in USA, (Tues June 16 Canada), they are going to air Episode #6164, Olivia and Malcolm's wedding. (Original US airdate Fri. July 11, 1997).

 

The soapcentral recap doesn't say much so I looked more into it. I found a few different recaps on "rec.arts.tv.soaps.cbs", an informal discussion newsgroup, later absorbed by googlegroups.

The first recap I found , posted in 1997, is here:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.arts.tv.soaps.cbs/uozG4TnxBrE/NN51AnRDQfIJ

And that doesn't say much about the wedding either, and then I saw that this thread was exactly the same wording as the soapcentral recap for that date, so maybe it was the source.  

 

More digging produced more info. More info is in a separate 1997 thread, where someone asked specific questions about the wedding and replies were made and discussed here:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.arts.tv.soaps.cbs/-ycSa98VXSw/6vcvKrBat4cJ

(that thread discusses the wedding episode, and also the reception which was in following episode).

The wedding party has Dru as matron of honor, Neil as best man, Lily as flower girl, and little Nate in a tux.  Mamie wasn't there. There were no other family members present. They didn't mention the bride and groom's parents.

 

 I found several other threads about the wedding where it was mentioned that all the guests were white except for Julia who is Nate's nanny. Comments were made about the wedding seemed so small and the show seemed so cheap. And they wondered if the show was saving up for Victor and Diane's upcoming wedding. And racism was discussed.

 

This 1997 thread is quite an interesting read:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/rec.arts.tv.soaps.cbs/0sPETfGmfRk/MbHiFqMyDgcJ

Seems like a lot of the complaints are similar to those we have now, except both budgets and diversity have gotten much worse. When I was reading the comment about the wedding looking cheap and not hiring extras, i was like just wait a few years and you'll hope you had the quality of that 1997 wedding. Also, read an interesting comment of the pairing being forced because there aren't enough AA cardmembers and the show being unwilling to have an interracial pairing. 

Bring back Generations. It's  time 

17 minutes ago, AbcNbc247 said:

Lmaooo.

 

GG said the words Mama and Papa in such a weird way on Passions. Maybe he finally grew out of it. 

Yes, he really did and I'm unsure what that was all about. Was it motivated by how he thought the character would say it, his own regionalism, use of an intrusive r. Either way, they had him say mama and papa so much that it always stuck in my head. 

I actually watched a full episode of Days today. It was nice to see lots of familiar faces. I need to read summaries, because I'm still unsure what's going on half the time. I think that's another issue with soap operas when you're not invested in the show or characters and watching in passing it can really seem over the top, ridiculous and confusing.

4 hours ago, titan1978 said:

I think her relationship to the show makes sense.  People are complicated.  She should be able to criticize Sony and Y&R, while also wanting to have a job there.  She clearly loved Drucilla.  She knows the character is important there and when best used is driving story, which means more time for her to act and be paid well while doing it.  I am sure without Kristoff she has less interest, but also a job is a job when you have need and desire for steady income.

Well said. She should be able to speak out about the injustices she's faced and those in the industry, yet still want to be on the show. These are complex issues and she can hold one opinion about the show and her character and another about what she's endured BTS. VR has a connection to the character and is loyal to the fans. It speaks volumes that she wanted to bring Y&R to all those displaced by the hurricane. 

Besides, she can make more change from the inside taking space at the table than shouting from the outside. The current climate has helped issues like this to get more notice and act as a catalyst and speed up the process, but in most cases change doesn't happen as quickly. VR can seem contradictory by asking to be back on the show and call out the unfairness she endured at the show, but when talking about race and issues of race she's up against an unfair system, besides everyone needs some coin. 

I have to agree with everyone on Tyler Perry's shows. I always thought most of his work resembled bad daytime soap operas, but he catered to an audience that was neglected for a long time especially when it comes to drama series/serials.

53 minutes ago, AbcNbc247 said:

Poor Rafe. I hope he gets a happy ending when he leaves.

 

Kind of glad to see the Orpheus family go. There was a lot of potential with that family, especially from Brock Kelly and Kelly Thiebaud's Zoey and they were wasted in what turned out to be a plot driven mess. 

 

Glad to see Lucas back too. I'm really looking forward to the scenes that he and Sami are going to have with Allie.

 

All in all, I still feel like that return to normalcy is still being played out on the show and I hope it stays like this for a while. I won't hold my breath though.

 

I wish he had said the baby's first words were "papaR" instead of "dada." It killed me every time Galen Gering said it on Passions. I was like where is this 'r' coming from. 

I think both actors have deep, monotone voices with limited inflection that it almost makes them seem worse. I don't think Ron Moss is a good actor however. They both also do that thing with their eye when they shout or have to express extreme emotion. It's like you can't hear it in my voice, but you'll see it on my eye. 

Bravo might want to look into its RH franchises - most are in need of some diversity. Most need cast changes but they keep bringing everyone back. Jersey brought the entire cast from last season back for the new season and there a few of those girls that are so boring they need to go or change their status on the show. 

Here's a clip from Guiding Light from 1967 featuring Dr. Jim Frazier played by Billy Dee Williams. Jim Frazier and his wife, Martha Frazier, were the first regular AA characters on a soap from what I've read. May have been posted on the forum before, but thought I'd share here. 

Dr. Jim Frazier was a hospital administrator at Cedars Hospital. Billy Dee fumbles his lines a bit at the 4 minute mark. 

Billy Dee has appeared in the Star Wars franchise, GH: Night Shift, GH, Dynasty and other works.

-----------

Brighter Day was the first soap to include an AA character as well as the first two have an AA on contract although short lived as the soap was cancelled soon after.

Mon, 09.17.1962

First Black actor cast in an American TV Soap Opera

Rex Ingram

 

 

On this date in 1962, the first Black actor integrated American day time television.  Rex Ingram, appeared as an ordained minister named Victor Graham on the show "A Brighter Day."

In August on that year, the show made history by creating the first daytime television contract role for an Black, but had no time to make much of an impact, as the show was cancelled two weeks later on September 28.

 

Source: https://aaregistry.org/story/first-black-actor-cast-on-american-soap-opera/#:~:text=On this date in 1962,show "A Brighter Day."