will81

Thank you @victoria foxton Another solid episode

Interesting choice Bell made to have David and Susan loathe one another. It seems Susan simply hated David for getting her pregnant. I wonder if there was a moment when things turned between them, or if it was simply the situation that made Susan hostile towards David from the beginning. She can't seem to help herself but to always respond to him with vitriole.

What I find so interesting about older soaps is that you didn't need over the top stories to grab people's attention. You needed solid characters with depth to make whatever story you were telling fascinating. Ultimately we talk about Susan/David/Julie and not just the story, because they are why the story works. I do think this was a large part of why Bill Bell was such a good writer, he invested in his characters and cared about them.

4 hours ago, yrfan1983 said:

Really... how interesting... I wonder how he worked that out... he must have been in the Writer's Guild union and would have been tainted as a "scab" if he was writing during the strike.

I thought he had a falling out with the WGA or whichever union he was part of and left, so the strike didn't affect him. Much like Irna in 1973 he was the only HW still writing his show in 88. Maybe I totally got that wrong though. 

At any rate, even if he was on strike as a writer, he was still the Senior Exec Producer. So it would have been like he was still writing the show in many ways

1 hour ago, yrfan1983 said:

oh my gosh, thank you anonymous angel, YRfan23, and BoldRestless! The first full ep available from July '88. This is during the '88 writers strike, but based on Will81's review, sounds like it's still a good one.

Was Bill Bell out during that strike? I thought he was still writing during the 88 strike. Either way I loved 85% of it. Jill and Marc was only okay not great, Marc just didn't fit the show anymore. I didn't realise David and Marc had any real interaction, but seems they did. 

@BoldRestless and @YRfan23 Thank you so much for that episode

What a banger - Steven finally shows his true feelings about Victor. I don't agree with him, but he has a point. Victor wants Ashley in his life, he turns to her, and insinuates himself, only I don't think he does this on purpose or with malice or intent. That's why the scene with Leanna is so telling. She sees him a certain way and he sees himself quite another, she all but rolled her eyes at him. Steven sees behaviours in Victor that Victor doesn't comprehend but Steven held his feelings about Victor down and he lost the ability to convey his concerns to Ashley in a way she might understand. Ashley can't see what Steven sees, she has too much history with Victor and Steven is too jealous to communicate properly. Then we have Nikki once again planning to use her daughter to manipulate and try to hang on to Victor. All up this story is Brilliant writing. The kind of writing that takes years of story and character development to pull off well.

Brad confronting Lisa - the end was awesome. Brad trying to reason with her, Lisa being sweet and innocent and Brad threatening her. I like that Bell has Lisa firmly in control at all times. Brad is flustered and threatened but Lisa is chill af. Everything he throws at her she hits right back. Her smile in the end was like her knowing she is getting to him, and in her delusional mind it means he still has passion for her and still loves her. 

That last scene was tense and filled with anticipation. I wasn't sure if we would get to see it, but it was perfection. Paul walking around the house and the camera following him only added to the tension. When would she appear? haha. They don't make them like this anymore. 

Special note to Marc Mergeron - he sticks out like a sore thumb, he simply didn't fit into the show anymore.

@Tonksadora Thank you. I am a big fan of Bill Bell. I love the psychology of his characters/shows. 

I really enjoy the community here. Everyone is always full of information and opinions I hadn't considered before or things I hadn't known about. 

10 hours ago, carolineg said:

I know there was backstory there, but why the secret from Susan?  If they were bff Julie never told her about David?  It's not like David/Susan are a love match.  I don't see why they don't come clean with Susan.  Why all the secrecy?  Besides it being a soap.

Why is David hanging around with such young girls lol?  

I'm not sure why Julie initially kept her romance with David a secret from Susan, but I am pretty sure Julie didn't tell her later, after David and Susan had been together, because she didn't want her friend to feel worse than she did, by telling her she was dating David and was in love with him. 

Julie assumed the whole thing would be over in 9 months and everyone could be discreet and she and David would reconcile. She also blamed herself for what happened between David and Susan because it happened just after Julie and David were to elope. Julie changed her mind, David was heart broken and found Susan, who was equally miserable.

They consoled each other in the back seat of his car (I think) it was impulsive and driven by heart ache and lack of self worth. I think Julie didn't blame Susan for what happened, and just wanted to help her deal with the mess they had gotten into. 

@victoria foxton Thanks for tagging me

I always loved Denise in both Days and GH. She has such a natural acting style.

The scene with Susan and her mother Diane is well done. Introducing her to David for the first time.....as her husband, haha. Susan being mean to David, calling him lover - the way DA says it too is great. Julie still blaming herself for everything and David just wanting it all over with.

Bill Bell really knew how to build a character, so that episodes like this worked. The reason they can't do this sort of episode anymore is because there is barely any character building/development anymore. It is more story based, with characters servicing the plot. That isn't how a soap works best. 

3 hours ago, FrenchFan said:

On GH, Meg Baldwin was killed off. I wonder if the Hursleys went on strike. The Dobsons took over around that time : maybe after the strike. I hope we will find the missing issues. If I was better with computers, I would create a site to post all of them in a chronological way.

Oh yeah I meant more that I doubt much of Lesley's back story was brought out during those months. Could have been, but possibly not.

Not sure with the Hursley's and if they were in the union and went on strike. I was always under the impression Irna was the only prominent HW at the time who was still writing during the strike.

I remember Bridget saying her mother got cancer around the time Bridget had first planned to leave GH (I think for GL) and Doris' health was the reason she stayed and possibly why she took over as HW. I am pretty sure it happened around this time, maybe the strike delayed Bridget from moving over and then Doris got diagnosed shortly after. I have never been able to find a firm end date for the Hursley's and start for the Dobson's. Post strike of 1973 had a fair few writer shuffles happening though. 

3 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

I would love to see the stories that were used during that time.

I really want to see everything from any show from 1968 - 1983. Such a great period for soaps as a whole. 

3 hours ago, Dion said:

Thanks @will81 and @FrenchFan

Getting closer to learning a bit more about Lesley's first marriage and their child. This summary seems to confirm that the child died of crib death.

Sweet. Happy when gaps are filled for people. May - Aug 1973 is still missing, though the writers strike was on during most of that period so possibly nothing of note happened anyway.

13 minutes ago, FrenchFan said:

I can't thank you enough @will81 ! I will type it down.

No worries. We are just missing May - Aug 1973

Hopefully I will get some more months from 1974 as well soon. 

Sorry this is late - April 1973 (NOTE: The words cut off on some of the scans are like that on the copy I have)

5 hours ago, Tonksadora said:

Wasn't there some to-do about GH offering a lot of money to lure DA away? Maybe there were hard feelings @ the outcome.

I feel like Denise is a fairly straight shooter and I am pretty sure at the time her explanation was always that she wanted a better deal and GH offered it to her. I do feel she would have been more vocal if she had had a real issue with the story. 

If you look at the lead up to the events in the park, Susan was actually having a few flashbacks of David (one was actually newly created and not just a past episode), which adds weight to the way the story played out. 

However it reads in synopsis as if Susan was remembering things right and Eric was a rapist. Up until the end with the hypnosis. Susan's memory was that she consensually slept with Eric, saw David's face and was traumatised and ran off, now believing she had been attacked. As I said above, this makes the flashbacks seem like forshadowing and they happened about a week or so before the events in the park.  

Hey everyone I got access to March and April 1973. Here is March, I will put up April later today

8 hours ago, kalbir said:

I wonder if Bill Bell's health issues started in the mid-1990s, as that overlaps w/ him turning the reigns at B&B over to Bradley, and Y&R going off track in the aftermath of OJ.

I am fairly certain he passed from Alzheimers. From what I have read, symptoms most likely began around 94/95. Maybe he had minor things happen prior, but generally I think 85% of people pass within ten years of symptoms beginning. 

1 hour ago, YRfan23 said:

Bill Bell I think was able to not let any network interference ruin any of his vision. I think the CBS/SONY people have been the real villains of everything wrong with the show for almost 20 years...even if there have been a lot of talentless hack writers and EP's the last few years.

I am certain that the less Bill Bell was involved the more corportate interference crept in.

Spermgate, Michael and Chris becoming more than work collegues and Paul raping Chris was the point the show chose scandal to bring in or stabilise viewers and began abandoning subtstantive story telling and character development. The insemination story of 99/00 wasn't so bad that the show couldn't just move on and forget it to a certain extent, I hate the story and what it did to three characters, but it was a minor dint and I could get over it. John Smith returning in Jun 02 was the point that these types of stories were becoming more common. The 02/03 season was a travesty and for me it only got worse over the next few years until I stopped watching completely in 06. The other big one from that time was Sharon making the moves on Victor, the true end of Sharon. And another being Lorie's return, which did not respect the legacy of that character and made her a simp for Victor, like every other woman. 

Bell's foundations were so strong that it took years to really unravel, but 2000 onwards was the beginning of the end. 2001-02 is the point I can no longer keep watching the show anymore. I don't even watch episodes when they pop up from that era on. 

I think Bell's illness getting much worse, Ed Scott leaving and Smith taking over all happened during this same time. 

11 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

I've known some older people who become much angrier as they age, for various reasons (it's also what leads to radicalization in some older people), and which soaps rarely delved into. I can see why they did want to focus more on the kinder side of Alice, as Frances played this well and it was a tonic for viewers with all the upheaval on the rest of the canvas starting in the late '70s. Still, I hope we get to see more of this type of material for her in more '60s or '70s episodes that pop up.

I would love a character that is older and based off someone like Jane Fonda or Joan Baez. Someone who is still out there getting arrested for what they believe in. Even if people do or don't agree with her politics or idealogies, the Jane Fonda's of the world are fascinating to me. 

However I also loved having Grandma Alice on my tv too and I think there is a place for both types of people. Even in the 80's Alice was still mixing it up here and there. 

2 hours ago, DRW50 said:

That's very true, although I feel like this side of Alice is toned down somewhat later on.

For sure. Reading about her fights with Laura when Mickey was missing, I was like, who is this woman? Not the Alice I grew up with. She seemed much more well rounded and more full as a character and not just Grandma Alice.

I guess people in life tend to mellow as they get older. It would have been more interesting to keep the edge to Alice as an ongoing character trait.  

59 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

thanks so much for finding/posting this.

The original Horton house is seems quite different in detail than later years. I'd have to do have a closer look but that is my first impressiom

This is pre Bill Bell but it's interesting he didn't make huge changes, just polished things up for the better.

Alice comes across as quite harsh to me, underneath that caring exterior. Basically saying 'get it together Marie'-no daughter of mine will be weak.

I guess that was more the mood of the times, whereas now a daughter of that age would have anxiety and depression after being triggered by a micro aggression.

Also to see how they cleverly staged the car accident and restaurant scene . In the latter, a couple of extras , some tables and the hint of fancy decor. 

In comparison on Y&R today they just plonk 2 people in an empty restaurant set and it looks awful.

If you think about Alice as a real world person, she went through the Great Depression and WWII. You had to be strong to survive. There simply wasn't the space for weakness and examining ones inner self. 

Marie grew up in far more prosperity and a much safer environment, despite the lingering threat of war. I think this scene really demonstrates the generation gap of that era. Maybe without even meaning to. 

1 hour ago, allmc2008 said:

That was an ABC special

I know all about this.

It is horrific. It was apparently happening all over the world and who knows, probably still is. We only got access to about 20% of documentation on some of the experiments/abuse that occured, the other 80% was destroyed and plenty was probably never documented or was hidden. 

I shudder to think about the projects that happened or are happening that we have no idea about and the people that are unwilling participants/victims. 

7 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

@will81 Sorry I didn't tag you too. I always associate you with Y&R. Yes, this channel is a great resource. Hopefully they know you shouldn't upload DAYS content, but if this is rare then I'm glad to see it. And yes, this is much better visual and sound quality than a lot of soap episodes of this period passed around.

No worries - I am generally in the Y&R thread, though I lurk about in most of them. Y&R and Days aired together in my country, so they were always my main ones. 

Yeah I wanted to tell them Sony might hit them, but I am too paranoid about leaving a comment in case it results in the bot tracking them down, haha. 

@DRW50 Thanks for that! I follow this channel and they have a ton of rare early tv broadcasts which seem to be taken directly from the 16mm kinescope and are great quality compared to 2nd or 3rd gen I have seen, though I guess this ep is probably in a vault somewhere in colour. Not sure this has been online before to be honest. @JAS0N47 would probably know better. 

18 minutes ago, slick jones said:

@Broderick @will81   I did a profile for the SOAP HOPPERS thread on Robert Gibson.   Is this the same actor that played David Mallory, the man that received Bill Foster's eyes? I haven't found a Y&R related picture (so far).

A good friend thinks it was him, but he's admitted he could be wrong.  Thanks.

 

Is this from AW? If so then yes this is the same man as confirmed by this article (Jan 19, 1979)

14 minutes ago, YRfan23 said:

I kind of took that line as Jill being snooty. Like Nikki was still taking off her clothes when she met Victor, and Jill was already working in an establish company like Jabot when she started seeing John. 

Yeah true. I think Brenda just performs it like she has no idea who Nikki is - either she is playing Jill like she forgot they were in-laws, or playing her like she is distancing herself "I don't know her" Lol. 

23 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

Jill must have been at Greg's wedding to Nikki and surely has some interaction.

Bill must have kept it at a minimum.

I think so. In one set of synopsis Jill pushes Stu to let them have the wedding at the Brooks home, in other synopsis it is Chris that requests this. 

I assume she was there though. If it was relatively small, they must have had some interaction. 

It does seem he kept it minor. Considering by 1984 Jill seems to have forgotten who Nikki is, haha.