will81

3 hours ago, Broderick said:

Aside from Paul, Nikki's "friends" were always mainly people she felt could propel her into the spotlight, and Jill's "friends" were mainly people who could provide her with financial security.  A friendship with Jill wouldn't have benefited Nikki's goals for stardom, and a friendship with Nikki wouldn't have furthered Jill's goals for a big house and a maid.  So they'd have just been wasting time with each other, lol.  

I will say, it seems odd if Jill didn't confront Nikki during the whole Walter Addison story. Especially when Liz got shot. Maybe there was a small interaction, but as far as I can tell I don't think there was. I know Deb Adair was in the role by that point, so maybe Bill was re-establishing Jill in her new Abbott sphere. I believe Terry Lester's first scenes involved Jack rushing Jill to the hospital (which I understand where some of Deborah's first scenes as well). Still it would have been great to have had something between them while Nikki was married to Greg. 

I also found it odd that Brenda's Jill refers to Nikki as a former stripper when she is about to go to her wedding to Victor, almost like she had never known of her before. Despite the fact Nikki was her sister-in-law. Though from a character perspective, I guess it doesn't surprise me too much. 

6 hours ago, Khan said:

Agree.  Like I said upthread, Jill strikes me as the type who wouldn't make friends with other women, at least not easily.  She'd have more of a kooky sidekick, like Erica had Opal, or DAYS' Anna had Calliope.

True. I guess it says a lot that the closest woman friend she ever had was her mother.

I honestly feel Jill would never have liked Nikki, tolerated and been nice to her, but that's all. She may have thought she was okay enough to marry Greg, but I just don't see them being friends. Jill may have been poor, but she believed she was rich and cultured. She aspired to it. I think she would have seen Nikki as a little beneath her. I actually think it made sense for Jill in 1979 to really never even try to be friends with Nikki.

A scene here or there, maybe. Brenda had chemistry with everyone, so I think both women would have made it work if they had to, but character wise I don't see it happening. 

24 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

Chuckling...

I can literally see Jeanne delivering those lines.

Again without that vulnerability Kay/Nikki wouldn't have worked. If Nikki was just a dumb slut, Kay wouldn't have given her 5 minutes.

At what point did Nikki mature somewhat?

I think during her marriage to Victor and then affair with Jack,OG Nikki was still present.

Was it the marriage to PB's Jack that started a change? I can imagine Nikki married to Terry Lester's Jack would have had a different quality to her and the union. But Peter Bregman had a different essence and Bill wrote to that, changing Nikki a little in the progress,

What do you guys think?

Yeah I'd say the divorce from Victor and marriage to Jack changed her. Peter always acted like he was doing Shakespeare and I guess his overly serious tone as Jack, as opposed to Lester's boy in a man's body performance, probably pushed Melody to step her game up. However, I do think the pill and alcohol addiction story would have happened and Melody would have still pushed to act the hell out of it. Plus we head into the 90's at that point and acting on soaps was changing. So I think Melody would have had a similar trajectory with Nikki anyway. 

I also feel Lester's performance would have changed too. He may have started things with Jack being far more out of his depth and I feel like he would have played Jack as simply not wanting to deal with Nikki's issues. So he gives in to her over and over, he is still that boy prentending to be a man. However, I think whether intended or not, Jack still would have left that marriage far more grown up, especially if Bell still had Nikki lose their baby as a result of Victor.

I think it would have been amazing to watch if it had played out that way. I feel with Peter Bregman we skipped the part where Jack grew up, as he always played him more as an adult. 

20 minutes ago, Broderick said:

I think Nikki just slowly evolved into someone worth keeping.  As mentioned earlier, the emphasis (at first) seemed to be on Casey, and Nikki was almost an afterthought -- Patty Minter's lazy sidekick at the Allegro.

Erica Hope played Nikki as trashy and slutty, without much depth (which is the way the part was written).  When it became evident that Erica Hope wasn't working out -- and I was never sure what happened backstage, but I sorta suspected she was coming to the studio unprepared and hungover, lol -- the recast started things moving in a more long-term direction. 

Melody Thomas brought a certain "scatter-brained stupidity" to the character that made her sluttiness FUNNY and sort of ENDEARING, instead of just provocative.  She still wasn't anything to write home about, until she crossed paths with Victor and Kay.  The depth and maturity of Eric Braeden and Jeanne Cooper really HIGHLIGHTED the immaturity, impulsiveness, and air-headed characteristics of Nikki, and that's when I believe she broke-out of the "sidekick" role and truly became an ingenue in her own right.       

I am pretty sure, without naming her, Kay Alden mentioned that Erica was too much like her character and often wouldn't even turn up and they had no other choice but to replace her. Probably why they went a slightly different direction with MTS being cast. Once bitten, twice shy and all that

41 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

So what did Greg get to do throughout 78?

Was that the Linda Larkin story?

And thanks for your response(s) .Can always rely on you and Broderick to dig deep about various Y&R eras.

I honestly enjoy discussing these type of details.

Linda and Larry Larkin was his first real story, besides minor supporting role stuff. 

After that wrapped up he had little to do until about Apr 79 when Greg and Nikki began dating, which led to the Nick Reed confrontation. 

10 minutes ago, Khan said:

Linda Lavin Larkin on the same show with Lance, Leslie, Lucas and Lorie.  God, so many L's, you'd think Laverne DeFazio was the HW.

I do wonder if Bill was a Superman fan or something. Lois Lane, Lana Lang etc...

1 minute ago, kalbir said:

There was a 1978 episode on YT where Casey mentions her kid sister but Nikki wasn't seen in that episode. I think Casey was introduced as the new doctor in town, and troublemaking younger sister Nikki arrived shortly after.

Casey came in almost as a replacement for Chris when Trish Stewart left in March, I think Casey popped up the following week. Not sure if they always intended to replace Trish or not. Her first story was a sort of romance with Snapper, then Chris returns (now Lynn Topping) and Snapper has to decide.

Nikki came on in May. So it is possible Nikki was always intended to be part of the show or Bell quickly created her once he saw Roberta as Casey. There isn't much of a gap between them

1 hour ago, Paul Raven said:

I wonder at what point Bill decided Nikki had some potential as a longer running character?

Was she at first one of his Summer teens who would highlight a social problem eg STD's and then learn her lesson and disappear?

The difference with Nikki ,unlike Jody before her, was that she was related to another character, so had more presence on the canvas.

Did Bill bring back Greg with the intent of him hooking up with Nikki and thus anchoring her onto the canvas?

I'd say in terms of Greg, I doubt it. Wings was on by very late Nov 77 and I don't think Greg and Nikki interacted until early 79. Fairly sure it was after Melody was in the role, around the time Nick Reed showed up. Pretty sure Bill Bell never really thought out such connections a year or more in advance, so I assume he got Nikki and Greg together as it suited the Nick story, of him being jealous of Greg dating his daughter, and maybe MTS and Wings had chemistry that Bill thought was worth exploring. I could be wrong though.

I do get the feeling Nikki was possibly a character that he thought had some potential, but was easy to dismiss if she wasn't working. Of course why go to the trouble of recasting and remaking her if you aren't at least somewhat invested. If I had to guess I would say Bill Bell was more invested in Casey and wanted to expand her sphere by bringing in her sister and father, then it went from there and once MTS was in the role he saw the potential. No doubt by 1981 Bill Bell made Nikki a much larger focus of the show. 

I think it is worth reiterating that Roberta had auditioned as a sub for Jaime Lyn Bauer and wasn't successful but the show told her to hold tight because they had a longer term role for her. So I do feel the idea that Roberta and Casey were seen as important is probably more true. I think MTS probably made Bell take more notice of Nikki.

2 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

Y&R created a set for Jonas' club located in Wherever USA.

Up until then the meeting spot in GC was The Allegro (formerly Pierre's) When Pierre died in 74, did Leslie buy the restaurant from Sally or Pierre's sister?

Les was an up and coming concert pianist, how could she afford to buy it?

Was Leslie's plan to be hands on, or was it  merely an investment?

Anyhoo, Brock started working there at some point.

Back to Jonas' club. Leslie decided to revamp The Allegro by magically redecorating it identically to his wherever venue.

So the set for Jonas' lived on in GC. Did he sell the other club?

Jonas' got renamed Gina's and lived on until it was burned down.

Gina then shifted to GCAC. Why didn't she rebuild her old club?

So many questions but I'm sure we can piece together some answers.

Leslie realistically probably couldn't afford the place, but Bell seemed to fluctuate the Brooks between well-to-do (upper middle class, a term I'm not sure was used in the 70's) and very wealthy. In the first or second episode Stuart makes a point of saying his family isn't rich, just well-to-do. I think this was abandonded at some point or whenever Bell needed them to have a lot of money for story purposes. 

Leslie bought Pierre's after her breakdown and I get the feeling it was a place for her to hide. There was a short story of Maestro basically forcing Les to perform again and Les being resentful of him pressuring her. I think they have a confrontation about it at one point. I think story wise it was her way of having a musical connection without performing on stage as she was too frightened to.

In Dec 74 Greg goes to Leslie and asks her to rehire Gwen at Allegro, so I guess she was hands on when it was needed, but I am pretty sure she really didn't run the place and by 1975 Brock was running it. 

The Edward story ended in Sep 81 and Jonas was there and by New Year of 82 I think Leslie went to Lucas and told him to get his sh*t together and run Jonas'/Allegro because Jonas had left town or something. I am sure I remember reading a quote from Jerry Lacy that he hadn't been on screen much before they let him go, so his last appearance was probably sometime before Jan 82. 

2 minutes ago, YRfan23 said:

He exited the show very early in January 82 Also. I’m guessing he Wes Kenney wanted him gone post haste like Cash! Lol

Lol writing at the same time. Synopsis is confusing. He may have been there in Jan 82 to hand over the club, but it also reads as if Jonas is already gone.

1 hour ago, Broderick said:

It really seemed that way.  A Chronicle arrived with a headline about Leslie's disappearance, but Jonas's concubine (Gloria, or whatever her name was) threw it out without reading it.  And Leslie managed to get there with no identification or money.  Those two things seemed to indicate it was "two towns over".  But when Lorie, Lucas, and Stuart "discovered" Leslie and started making trips to visit her to check on her condition, they acted like she was WAY off somewhere in never, neverland.   

She travelled through time at some point too. By 1981 Leslie went from missing for 6 months to being gone for 3 - 5 years. 

1 hour ago, Broderick said:

Sometimes he seemed to take a rather "fluid" approach to time and space.  He'd have Lorie and Lance eating lunch, and a few scenes later it would be dark and they'd still be lingering over their food, then dancing the night away and entertaining the crowd with an impromptu midnight concert, indicating their lunch had turned into dinner without them ever taking a break from the table.  And I never figured out where the hell Jonas and "Pris" were supposed to be.  In some scenes, they appeared to be on the outskirts of Genoa City, receiving the Chronicle with pleas about Leslie's whereabouts ("Have you seen this woman??"), and in other scenes they seemed to be a million miles away somewhere, and Lucas would have to board the Prentiss jet to visit Jonas's club.  

Jonas' Club was both two towns over from GC and at the same time somewhere in New York, haha. 

2 hours ago, YRfan23 said:

I feel like it might have been her first real appearance? Maybe we saw Katherine the first couple months at the salon, not really having much dialogue and just being studied by Jill? She was probably built up more in the dialogue by Jill and maybe her colleagues at the salon, kind of like how we see Jill talk to her boss Hazel about Katherine in the episode, before we see her.  Jeanne herself said William Espy welcomed her, the first day, but Snapper is not part of that January 28, 1974 episode. 

Bill Espy may have been on set that day but not taping, he and Janice Lynde were already dating at that time apparently. So he may have been just there to see her, or Jeanne could be remembering wrong. Maybe he welcomed her that week, or maybe she was on set prior to actually taping her episode for whatever reason. 

I just feel Bill Bell was firm when he corrected Jeanne and said Jan 1974. I always felt prior to his illness he had a pretty sharp memory. Plus in 2004 she celebrated 30 years on Jan 28, 2004 with Joe LaDue there, though many said maybe it was a delayed celebration. Variety also doesn't announce Jeanne as joining the show until Feb 1974, though they may have been delayed in announcing it. 

This is also why I really want to put it to rest. There is at least some circumstantial evidence for Jan 28, 1974. Nov 1973 has never had any strong evidence at all. Even Jeanne said she started 6 months after everyone else, even with pre-emptions that would put her first air date in Oct 1973. She goes to say this again on Donahue in 1990 and that is when Bell cuts in and says "You started in January 1974"

I don't care which day is right, but it annoys me, haha. I really want to finally figure this out.

1 hour ago, BoldRestless said:

Yes! I'd also like to see the debut of Col. Douglas Austin. In the recaps some references were made to him and Victor having served together, and I've never seen Victor otherwise mentioning any military service. I'd like to see how that was explained. And the duel! Imagine how they wrote the stage directions for that! Haha.

I'd also like to put to rest Jeanne Cooper's first air date. I am 99% sure it is Jan 28, 1974. But there will always be a tiny bit of doubt in my mind. Bill Bell himself said she started in Jan 1974 when they were on Donahue and it makes sense that the reason the Jan 28 episode is out there is because it is her first. However, Nov 73 has been said so many times that I would love to finally clear it up. 

@allmc2008 Understood. It is difficult to feel willing to share things if you have been treated poorly and disrespected

27 minutes ago, allmc2008 said:

 

 

 

I'll risk uploading these. I'll provide more all the information you all desire, I'm sure @slick jones is eager to record the cast data.

 

I'll only did so if I get an apology from @SFK@kahn @Vee @KhanDue to the bs from the oltl thread. I showed the messages to 10 different people and all thought I was ganged up on. I also didn't like the offensive remark regarding autism.

I have a great deal of other sources of gladly share such as the bible to LIAMST and the first few scripts of ATWT amongst other documents. I even have the bible to Ma Perkins.

 

12 hours for the apology.

Sorry if anything bad happened. I hope it gets resolved (not just so you'll share stuff) I put my foot in my mouth in another thread and still feel bad about it. So hopefully they will be good enough to apologise if they did something wrong. 

1 hour ago, ltm1997 said:

Thank you for mentioning this...I, too, have some scripts coming from the same place (only the first page of each) from the 1979-1983 era and it didn't even cross my mind about possibly getting caught by uploading them. I'll definitely keep this in mind from now on.

Yeah I probs wouldn't scan and upload, but just writing out the the info in a post shouldn't get anyone in trouble. 

5 hours ago, allmc2008 said:

Again, I will be very frugal when it comes to posting here as I really don't want to be on their bad graces.

Totally understand. I shared a few 1977 scripts in the Look into the Past thread, but wasn't sure about uploading the scripts directly. So I just did a synopsis and gave the front page details (Cast/Writers/Tape and Air Date) If that isn't too much trouble, I would say that would suffice and wouldn't land anyone in any hot water. Totally up to you though

22 hours ago, allmc2008 said:

I have the first 15 scripts. I would be fun seeing how that would work.

If you feel like sharing them, that would be awesome. Even if you can give us cast/tape & air date/writer info and a synopsis would be amazing too

On 3/27/2022 at 8:58 AM, ironlion said:

2005 is often cited as the last classic year, but there was a marked decline after 2001. The camera angles became less ornate, the clothes and sets became even less glamourus, and the storylines started going off track. 97-01 was the Silver age, with 02-05/ early 06, being the bronze age of the show for me.

2001 was solid with Matt Clark & Tricia, Diane, Isabella, the Walnut Grove teens, and others. 

I believe Ed Scott left in Dec 2001 and I am also sure Bill Bell's health was very poor by that time. John Smith became a co-HW with Kay Alden and Trent Jones in Jun 2002. 

By 2003 Bill Bell was no longer an Executive Story Consultant and in 2004 he was no longer Senior Exec Producer. He was now a co-exec producer with John Smith.

I am sure there were power struggles over the show starting in 2002. Interestingly 2002 is generally considered the last really solid year of B&B as well. I'd say Y&R and B&B had smiliar trajectories. This makes me think Bill was more involved with B&B post 1993 when Brad officially took over. Both had a drop in quality around 94/95 both regained in 97/98 and both were done (for me anyway) by around 01/02

I'd also say Bell not really being in LA until 1986 was part of it too. He may have had a zero tolerance policy, but he wasn't there to enforce it. As has been said, once Lauralee was there full time and the Bell family had moved to LA the drug use would have stopped. At least anywhere near the work place.

It was probably still being passed around at other celeb events though, not much Bell could do about that. From what I have heard coke was everywhere back then. You couldn't avoid it, even if you didn't use it. 

Next set of Lorie edits are up

I think the last clip is from summer 1982 when Lorie was about to marry Victor. I don't believe they ever entertained the idea of marriage during her trial

1 hour ago, carolineg said:

Agree. They based the whole thing on a before and after photo.  Everyone should be embarrassed.  I think everyone just liked John better and went with it.  Including Marlena lol.   I think it's obvious she liked some physical differences.   

It's sorta funny that you think Stefano made him practice to have sex with Marlena.  If I am going to go even further into all this-why did Stefano even make John faux Ro?  What was his point?  Especially after he kidnapped Marlena as well?  Was there an end goal he was looking for like John to turn on all the Brady's at some point?  Or was it just for like shits and giggles?  Have they ever even tried to explain it?  

As far as Eric he got kicked out of the priesthood for Kristen seducing him.  I don't even want to talk about it.  He always got in a drunk driving accident and killed Daniel among the other lesser sins.  I honestly didn't even hear his excuse about why he went back recently. 

My feeling was Stefano really hated John and wanted to torture him to no end. My idea would be that John was an MK Ultra victim, considering that is a real cover up that many know about and how popular conspiracy theories are it would fit well in today's show and still sort of honour the history. They should have pulled it back to that and had Stefano have links to dirty government officials. The story is that John was supposed to infiltrate the police or some other agency and go rogue. Hence why they brainwashed him to be Roman. 

I guess Stefano in retrospect kidnapped Marlena because he was obssessed with her. There was never more said about it. 

I do think successive writing regimes were probably building to something with John, but the constant writer change built to nothing. It is hard to have a story with so many twists and turns that get scrapped and retconned. I can't keep track of his back story.

1 hour ago, carolineg said:

I think Kristen's view of religion was just so strong at that time (and completely abandoned post-Possession lol) that Marlena's "I support you no matter what" attitude came off more natural.  I just always thought she was okay with it and maybe pro/pushing is too strong of a word, but she wasn't against it and didn't want him to turn his back on it necessarily. 

So do you think Marlena realized if John was a priest brainwashed out of the seminary that meant John was probably a virgin when she met him and she was embarrassed she couldn't tell the difference between him and Roman?  Lol.   I know it's completely retconned out of existence now, but at the time..

I don't think JER ever left his vision of John/Marlena even if I suspect the network and other PTB wanted John/Kristen more when ED first arrived, but JER was never going to truly let that happen.  Aremid is where John/Marlena stuff becomes really clear, but I think the true turning point is when the devil starts using Marlena to actively seduce John.  You truly get the idea that's the endgame couple

Anyhow, Eric's priesthood journey confuses me more than John's.  Eric can leave, have multiple relationships with women, have a child out of wedlock, and get married and DIVORCED, and just go back to being a CATHOLIC priest?   I know women used to join convents after they were widowed, but I feel like Eric's life is not the same at all.  Maybe they just keep him around in case an exorcism needs to get done.

Marlena seemed more on John's side "You do what you need to, I'm here" Kristen was more like "You have to stay a priest or the gates of hell will open up" I do think there was foreshadowing at that point. 

I don't think Kristen's religious devotion was that strong prior to John finding out he might be a priest, she was religious but not that devout. It ramped up when it needed to and disappeared when it needed to. 

I think the whole town should be embarrassed about mistaking John for Roman. They question it for a split second and then just accept it. Despite the height and build difference. At least facial surgery is plausible, somewhat. In terms of him being a virgin. He probably wasn't. I'd say DiMera probably had him in a trance sleeping with women he thought was his wife Marlena, to get him ready, lol. I do wonder if there were any other physical differences Marlena noticed, haha.

Eric - I haven't watched the show much since Kristen was dropped in the Harem, and I only returned to watch ED's first come back. So I don't know his story well enough. 

4 hours ago, carolineg said:

You are probably right.  Maybe I was just confusing the fact that Marlena was generally really pro John finding out his past, which was fair, but never cared much about the 5 years she was kidnapped lol.  I remember her urging him to find out as much as he could about the priest stuff. 

I would say, IMO, that John was still really into Kristen until Aremid and that's when he saw something 'more' again with Marlena.  But obviously, the audience would see it better than them and knew there was unfinished business with them even at Maison Blanche.  

On a sort of unrelated priest note I always thought it was funny John decided to re commit to being a priest and all of sudden he was performing weddings and had these duties.  Does it even work like that lol?  I know very little about this, but isn't it difficult to go back after you had a wife and children?  How does Eric go in and out as a priest as well?

Maybe Marlena had some moments when she pushed John to the priesthood, though I get the feeling they may have been moments when she was feeling guilty about her affair. Not sure.

Yeah I don't think John was aware of his own feelings, but it seems JER was setting up that John and Kristen were not 'meant to be' and his beloved Doc knew him. I agree it was not until Aremid that John started to realise it, somewhat.

Lol John going back and forth is a bit odd. No sure it does work that way. My uncle is a priest and has never had a relationship. He is very much 'married' to GOD. I think if you leave, that's the end of it. Not take backs, haha. 

On 3/23/2022 at 6:25 AM, carolineg said:

Isn't it Gabe that convinces John to be a priest?  Wasn't pre-possessed Marlena pro John being a priest as well?.  I remember her and Kristen saying it was his 'calling'.  Which, no it's not, if he doesn't remember it.   Instead of Tanya I guess John was off screen knocking Tori up.  

I didn't think Marlena was pro priest. Only because I remember it being the first time John looked at Kristen (who was pushing him to stay with the church) like she didn't understand him, while Marlena was simply agreeing with whatever John wanted and thus he felt this stronger connection to her. That they knew each other and she understood who he was.