will81

Thank you so much. Love all of this, even for soaps I'm not into, love the 70's regardless so this is gold.

Interesting ABC chose to air a 13min episode of OLTL - not sure why they didn't just pre-empt it

GH doesn't air its first 1 hour ep Jan 16 but the following day which must have been annoying as I assume ABC promoted it a fair bit. 

For those needing information on writers, here is some info I captured from Newspaper articles, can post articles if people want

Tony Converse (Producer) and Lou Scofield (writing with John Hess) came on around December 1968

Gillian Houghton was listed as new HW with EP Charles Weiss and Assoc Producer Bernie Sofronski - From an article dates Aug 23, 1969. I believe Gillian Houghton is Gabrielle Upton and she did return to the show at the end

Gerry Day and Bethel Leslie are announced Sep 06, 1970

Feb 01, 1972 The HW is listed as Bob Cenedella with Frances Rickett and Joe Caldwell. Producers is Joseph Manetta

Bell also had cast issues too in 1980

David H wanted out but agreed to stay basically as a guest star

Lynn Topping was mostly off due to a difficult pregnancy and then maternity leave. She refused to sign the same contract as David and walked

Jaime-Lyn Bauer also had a difficult pregnancy that slowed certain stories and ground to a halt others. She ended up leaving on maternity leave early and was off for over two months

Brenda Dickson left and her replacement Bond Gideon was let go after six months and replaced with Deborah Adair and the Jill/Jack/John story was pretty much a non starter that would result in Brett Halsey being let go

John McCook left which mostly resulted in the 4 L's drama falling apart.

In 1979 the two biggest stories were the Prentiss family drama and Jill/Kay/Derek with Stu/Liz/Suzanne. Both those stories suffered as a result of the above cast departures. Basically half the show was in trouble.

The Santa Leandro/Leslie's amnesia story fell flat, the cult story fell flat and Jill's stories were in stop start mode. On top of that Bell seemed to feel April/Paul and the Stevens/Williams were the future of the show and I don't think audiences agreed. 

4 hours ago, lucaslesann23 said:

I guess I should ask this in the old articles page but since you brought it up, how long was Bell writing with alzhiemers for? Ik he retired in 98 but was that his actual exit year or was he gone before than?

I can only say the stats which are that people rarely live ten years beyond symptoms developing or becoming noticed. This means around 94/95 would be the point Bell might have started becoming more affected. 

I do think he was HW of the show until 1997 and then shared duties with Kay Alden until 1998.

He was still the Senior Exec Producer and a Senior Story Consultant after that. How long he was contributing though, my guess is a couple of years after he stepped down as HW. 

She was Mrs. Chancellor for the longest time. Even Liz called her Mrs. Chancellor for ages. I don't think Jill ever called her anything but Mrs. Chancellor until she married John in 1982 and felt she was now Kay's social equal. Very few people ever referred to Kay as anything else. Except whomever she was married to at the time. 

In the early to mid 80's Jack didn't really like her, John found her annoying even if he was nice to her and most others feared her or were intimidated by her except Nikki, as Kay was like a second mother to her (except for that period where Melody gave Jeanne the silent treatment)

I think by the late 80's It is obvious Bell and co were elevating Kay in GC society and she was becoming an elder stateswoman of Genoa City and the show. Marrying Rex really softened her, even though she continued to cause trouble for Jill. Taking Phillip and by extension Cricket, under her wing helped to reshape her for the younger generation. 

By 1998 Jill was seen as an outlier in her hatred for Kay and usually in the wrong and a horrible person. Everyone else loved Katherine, respected her and saw her in a virtous light.

Calling her Katherine instead of Kay cemented that respect. Jess did always say Katherine but often with bitterness in her voice or tension. It did work but also added to the formality in a way. 

2 hours ago, Broderick said:

Jazz was interesting, but honestly Jon St. Elwood was more of a "character actor" than a lead.  Phil Morris, though, was a leading man whose time on the show seemed short-circuited, due to the nature of his storyline (the crime syndicate).  And I've always believed dropping Stephanie E. Williams to recurring was one of the biggest mistakes Bill Bell ever made.  Obviously an attractive young lady with her smile and her talent was going to snapped-up by another show; she wasn't gonna wait around indefinitely.

I *suspect* Bill Bell's intention was to give Stephanie a little bit of a rest and then bring her back as the "offset" to Victoria Rowell's Drucilla character.  He CLEARLY intended to contrast Dru with an upper middle-class female rival, which ultimately turned out to be Olivia Winters.  But in his early planning, I'll bet you anything her rival was going to be Amy Lewis.  (You'll recall that Stephanie was brought back to the show following a few months off, then she was snapped-up as Simone on General Hospital, just before Victoria Rowell's debut.)        

I have always thought this too. It would have made more sense, since Amy and Nathan had a history already. Bringing in Dru as either non-related to Amy or a cousin or sister that the family never talked about and bringing back Loretta and Frank would have worked well. 

I'm wondering what the timeline was. Tonya Lee Williams said she had read for Dru, but wasn't happy with the idea of representing as a Black woman who couldn't read. So Bill Bell created Olivia. I wonder if Tonya read and turned the role down, then maybe Victoria was offered the part and around the same time Stephanie took off for GH and that's when Bell created Olivia and reached back out to Tonya. 

I totally agree, losing Stephanie was a big mistake on Bell's part. She had it all, great acting, charisma and chemistry with her co-stars, even those her character wasn't romantically involved with. Plus history and an already introduced family that were established.

To add to that. Tyrone and Jazz could have come back too. Tyrone could have joined Jabot's legal department, Bell already had a triangle with Tyrone/Amy/Nathan and then you add Dru. 

I think he still could have brought on Neil and Olivia and had them be a married couple who are ultimately split apart by some new start at Jabot or something. Just off the top of my head, not sure what I would do with Neil and Olivia, though would still want them and Malcolm on the show. 

3 hours ago, yrfan1983 said:

https://twitter.com/yrvault

 

Also I think when Lynn Topping was pregnant in ‘80 - Chris Brooks gave birth to baby Jennifer

Yes and there was talk that Chris might have twins as Lynn gave birth to twins, but the show kept it to one child. 

I found some more details around Y&R going #1 in 1984. Seems it was around week of May 14 - 18 according to the first article

The second one from June 22, talks about GH being in fourth place. Y&R was still the #1 rated soap.

Then ranks for week Jul 02 - 06 that I found

#1 General Hospital

#2 The Young and the Restless

#3 All My Children

#4 Wheel of Fortune

#5 The Price is Right

#6 One Life to Live

#7 As The World Turns

#8 Guiding Light

#9 Days of Our Lives

#10 Scrabble

15 minutes ago, kalbir said:

In My Sister's Shadow was first, then Naked at Dawn.

I just checked. She wrote and published Naked at Dawn in September 1974 while Leslie was still in Fairview.

Maybe it tanked and she re-released it like In My Sister's Shadow which was released first in 1975 and went nowhere (Vanessa re publicised it and made it popular in 1978) 

Or maybe Bell forgot about the 1974 book and they named her later book Naked at Dawn by accident. Lorie clearly states in September 1974 that her book is Naked at Dawn. 

21 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

I had not caught this interview until you pointed it out to me. Thank you so much @DRW50! It was a treat!

I also wish we could have had some interactions like this with their characters on the show.

Acknowledging Victoria Mallory with such respect was sweet.

I found it amusing that Jaime Lyn Bauer mixed up Lorie's book titles Naked at Dawn and In My Sister's Shadow. I instantly caught her error. Die-hard fans can remember even the most obscure details.

I don't believe there's bad blood with JL and Tom Hallick. She's in the classic Y&R Facebook group, and she has often posted very glowing comments about Hallick, their characters' storyline, and working with him.

 

Naked at Dawn was her first book from 1974 right? Impressive that JLB remembered that one at all. 

I'm betting the party was hectic and Michael just managed to get certain people together and not others for no other reason than it must have been difficult to co-ordinate.

5 hours ago, j swift said:

Watching the new intro gave me flashbacks to the sets of the 1980s and I was hoping that someone with expert recall could fill in some of the missing pieces.

IIRC Paul had his offices (with the slanted window) in the same building as Victor Newman.  I don't remember them referencing Newman Towers at the time, in fact, I have a vague memory that George Rawlins developed the building for Ra-Tech, and Paul moved in when he consulted on security for George. 

Jabot was across the street in another highrise

Then there was the building with Top of the Towers (or maybe that was at the penthouse floor of Victor's building?)

And finally, there was the highrise condo building where Victor lived with Leanna, and Jill moved there after her divorce from John.

All of which is to say that Genoa City had a limited number of high-rise buildings in the 1980s and did not resemble the bustling metropolis shown in the most recent version of the opening - correct?

 

I'm pretty sure Paul mentioned Newman Towers for the new offices and yes it had Penthouse apartments there as well. Nikki and Jack meet in one and Victor spies on them in 1987

Jabot was in its own building and I don't remember any other company being mentioned there

Victor and Leanna, I thought also lived in Newman but maybe not. I don't remember Jill living in the same condo building as Victor. After her 1986 divorce she was in the Genoa City Hotel Penthouse and I thought she pretty much moved in with Keith after her second divorce, which is why when kay ruined that relationship Jill forced her to let her move in as she had no home to go to.

Did Jill have another residence after her second divorce? I don't remember that

2 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

That Jill scene was just shown in Tracey's 40th anni episode, which again leads me to believe that production suggested a scene and the actors went along with it. Shows alack of interest from all concerned.

I also wonder if, given the option, most of the actors would have chosen 80's or 90's material. Leaving little of post 2000's to be shown. I bet TPTB would hate that. They want 2010's Y&R to considered classic just as much as any other decade I think and probably pushed more for later years stuff. 

I know we will never see a Brenda Dickson scene, but the one before Christmas 83 where the Abbott's are arguing over whether Dina should come for Christmas Day was awesome. Really showed the split in the family and Jill finally feeling like John was taking her side for once. Jill felt she had triumphed, while Ashley, although hating the idea of her mother being there, still felt bad for Traci and Jack who wanted her there. John who was torn and Jack and Traci who went from happy to miserable. 

10 hours ago, depboy said:

Hello! As I continue to research the effect of 1967's AFTRA strike on the broadcast pattern of GH, I'll continue to post the log lines from the summaries.  In my previous post, I edited the dates with a strikethrough from the April 5, 1967 (tape date March 29, 1967, which would have been the first day of the strike) episode forward.  I've learned that 'Father Knows Best' reruns aired in place of GH during the strike, but I am still gathering information on when they went back into production.  We join the staff of the seventh floor in the spring of 1967:

Tuesday, May 9, 1967: Phil tells Audrey that Dr. Jones is not washing her hands of the case, and advises she tell Steve about the artificial insemination.

Wednesday, May 10: George Morton tells Lucille his troubles and protests to Steve that they are keeping Alice Seaton in the hospital without cause.

Thursday, May 11: Celebrations as it is revealed that Prentice doesn't have congestive heart failure and the wedding plans can go forward.

Friday, May 12: Lee helps Iris move to a new apartment.

Monday, May 15: Audrey is trapped into telling Lucille the truth.

Tuesday, May 16: Lucille acts tragically at Audrey's admission. Alice tells Phil why she is afraid of Morton.

Wednesday, May 17: Iris remembers the start of her romance with Baird Roberts.

Thursday, May 18: Iris gets a call from Baird Roberts and is badly shaken. Morton learns Alice told Phil about him...and is enraged.

Friday, May 19: Lucille urges Audrey to tell Steve the truth before Dr. Jones comes to town...she is due to arrive in a week.

Monday, May 22: Lucille intercepts a call for Steve or Audrey from Dr. Jones.

Tuesday, May 23: Phil tells Alice they must release her from the hospital.

Wednesday, May 24: Audrey meets with Dr. Jones, who is outraged by learning that Audrey forged Steve's name on the consent.

Thursday, May 25: Alice is questioned by the ADA Walter Thompson.  Baird makes an ardent appeal to Iris.

Friday, May 26: Longworth takes Morton's complaint about Alice to Steve. Audrey can't face the moment of truth.

Monday, May 29: John Prentice receives a telegram from Polly.

Tuesday, May 30: Morton comes to the hospital to see Alice and learns she has been released.

Wednesday, May 31: Iris reveals to Meg that Baird Roberts has asked her to return to him and she is shaken.

Thursday, June 1: Lee tells Phil that if Alice is in danger, so is he.  Audrey confesses to Steve, who is shattered.

Friday, June 2: Iris won't be tempted to return to Baird Roberts. Prentice is worried that Polly will return to an empty house while he's in the hospital and Jessie says she will invite Polly to stay with her.  Steve returns to Audrey and tells her he's moving out.

Monday, June 5: Lucille leaves work to be with Audrey.  Steve tells Jessie he feels like a failure as a man.

Tuesday, June 6: Alice, who is hiding in Phil's apartment, is scared into letting Morton in.  Dr. Jones apologizes to Audrey for insisting that she tell Steve the truth.

Wednesday, June 7: Morton threatens to ruin Phil if she doesn't agree to marry him.

Thursday, June 8: Prentice tells Jessie that Polly is coming home.

Friday, June 9: Morton probes Alice about what she has told Phil about him...and forces her to write a farewell note.  As they are about to leave, Phil enters and Morton draws a pistol.

Newspaper listings show Father Knows Best began airing Monday April 03, 1967 and General Hospital returned Tuesday April 11, 1967. Maybe ABC was not allowed to air the show at all during the strike or thought it best to just replace the show immediately rather than wait for episodes to run out. Not sure. 

My other thought, do actors get paid if the episode doesn't air? Maybe ABC didn't want to pay actors on strike. 

22 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

Re April Stevens

I have always seen Janet wood as originating the role and playing it for a short time before Cynthia Eilbacher took over.

Now it appears the original April was Patricia Allbrecht. Jon Michael reed reports the casting in a December 79 column. Maybe Allbrecht was only on for a day or two.

 

Patricia Albrecht was most likely there until Christmas 79 as Janet Wood was announced in Jan 1980 and her first appearance is likely Jan 21, 1980. Cindy Eilbacher took over sometime in Spring 1980. 

The other two big changes I noticed. Story over character and JER's Days and Melrose Place turned Daytime from drama or high drama to scandal. By the mid to late 90's soaps felt more like tabloids

On 2/14/2023 at 12:27 AM, Tonksadora said:

I just want to say how refreshing it was to read commentary that was not the usual total hero worship of "Gloria-Monty-Saved-Soaps". All too often i find myself in a Minority Opinion of One who sees a downside to her actions. 

Also the loss of unique identity of the soaps replaced by corporate copycatting. 

Thanks, folks. 

I agree and everything I have read suggests that from the writers strike in 1981 until spring/summer 1982 when GH lost up to 2 million viewers, was all Gloria Monty. Pat came back after the strike but walked almost immediately and Monty didn't bother hiring a new HW for several months after that. 

It was that period that had the most impact on all the other soaps. 

On 1/23/2023 at 5:45 PM, Broderick said:

We used to laugh about this at my house -- Mister Abbott would've never married Brenda Dickson's Jill, but she was ideal to play the divorce storyline with the lurid photographs and adultery.  

As someone said above, Deborah Adair played the character as more "flippant, but always with an ulterior motive", while Brenda Dickson imbued all the hurt and anger that Jill had endured at the hands of Kay Chancellor.  

Adair's Jill could be comically callous and calculating, with a shrug of her shoulders.  Like at one point, she tried to sell Liz Foster's house to drum-up some cash, and she dragged the New Greg into the middle of it. Liz Brooks made Jill apologize to Greg for wasting his time.  Jill had no interest in apologizing to Greg -- because his time meant nothing to Jill, but once she found out John Abbott was in town for a conference, she called Greg and arranged to meet him for lunch to offer her apology, but really she just wanted to park her fanny prominently in a spot where John Abbott would notice her and start thinking of her again.  (This is while she was engaged to Andy Richards.)  With Adair's Jill, it was easy to forgive her for these types of stunts, because she always played them as though it was just a way to "get ahead", but if it didn't work, aw shucks, at least she tried.  

Brenda Dickson was always more "focused" and "calculating" in her conniving.  

I will say though that there are scenes out there that show Brenda could have played the more vulnerable and loving Jill to John. The first being after her affair, when she returns home and is distraught about what she's done. Jill and John have a rather tender and loving moment in their room.

The other is the June 11 1985 episode. One of the few where John and Jill are really connecting. I think while Brenda and Jerry's chemistry isn't off the charts, they had enough there to make it work. Plus Jill is rather charming and seductive. I think this is closer to what the courtship would have been had Brenda played that aspect. Much like Stuart Brooks, Jill would have been the woman to help John feel alive again. Not as much romance and sweetness as Deborah's Jill had and more John being slightly lured in by Jill with a touch of romance, which ultimately makes more sense as to why their marriage fell apart so easily, even before the affair was discovered. 

Who knows, maybe Jerry and Brenda were getting along that week, lol. Maybe they both knew the end was near and were happy

12 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

I was going to make a note of that . I assumed Clare was a woman until an article established that was not the case.

You have August 72 as Bolen's start date, which doesn't tally with my research. I have found it difficult to get clear dates for some of those appointments.

One of Clare Simpson's projects was a daytime version of Ben Casey.

First mention of Bob Aaron I have is Dec 1960

I have Larry White beginning January 1966

Bud Grant January 1969

Clare Simpson January 1972 which matches Bud Grant going to CBS and taking over from Fred Silverman

Lin Bolen August 1972 as seen in the article below

I think the issue is the press never refer to the position in the same way twice. Was Lin Director but Clare was still VP. Were they two separate positions or the same? Maybe that is where the confusion lies.

6 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

CBS dominated primetime and daytime in the 60's. By the late 60's NBC was closer in both daytime and primetime.

Early 70's pretty much CBS in both but NBC close. Then ABC took off in primetime and daytime, but as stated when NBC broke through in the mid 80's they could never acheive that success in daytime.

Of course a lot goes back to who was running the daytime division and the decisions they made.

I did some research and here's what I've got so far.

NBC

Bob Aaron 61-66

Larry White 66-67 

Bud Grant 67-72

Clare L Simpson June 72 - Oct 73

Lin Bolen Oct 73 -  Feb 76

Madeliene David Feb 76 - 77

 Michael Brockman 77-80

Lucy Johnson 80-81

Linda Line Nov 79?  title was vp  of serials

Brian Frons March 83- May 89

Jackie Smith May 89 – May 91

That's what I have at the moment.

That's interesting. Everything I have ever read states Lin Bolen was the first woman to achieve such a high ranking position at a network. She was made VP of Daytime programming August 1972. I had never heard of Clare Simpson before

Lol NVM Clare Simpson is a man. So Lin Bolen's achievement still stands

17 minutes ago, Broderick said:

They were.  In his "Television Archives" interview, Bill Bell said it was Screen Gems (now Sony) that courted him to create a new show in the early 1970s.  The Screen Gems reps were under the impression (initially) that his new show would end-up on NBC, but Bill Bell shrugged and said, "I always knew we were going with CBS."  (Had Lee Bell's talk show been on the CBS affiliate in Chicago?  Bell seemed to have an allegiance to CBS that he never had to NBC, possibly because he saw the chances of success were greater at CBS, or possibly because of his involvement at CBS with Irna Phillips, or possibly because of Lee's experience there.)  But he was very emphatic that he never seriously considered NBC for Y&R.  

Yes Lee's show was on the CBS O&O in Chicago. Bell also started his tv career with CBS in the 1950's.

1 hour ago, Soaplovers said:

Adair infused Jill with a sense of warmth/optimism that had been missing from the character since the mid 70s.... but her Jill was a crafty one.. and used that warmth/vunerability to her advantage.

I feel like this is counter to who Jill was at this point. She had gone through a lot of trauma at the hands of Kay Chancellor and it had hardened her heart. The warmth was there with Brenda, but with strings attached because she only knew how to survive, which often meant closing her heart. The warmth seemed contrived but realistic. 

Brenda's coldness, even when she was being loving as Jill, seemed much more on par with who Jill was supposed to be by 1982. Being vulnerable only if it served a purpose, because she was never going to let her guard down again. 

Deborah seemed more like a woman who had gone through a lot but didn't let it affect her deep down. I felt the evolution of Jill went back a few steps. Deborah is still lovely to watch, but the deeper psychology of Jill isn't there. 

51 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

Well it was kind of in character for Jill. A few years before, in the midst of the Derek/Kay triangle she got involved with David Mallory, another decent man who could offer stability but oh no, Miss Foster loved the drama,the $$$ and the D too much.

I'm sure that Liz had the same reaction both times...

'Jill, David/Andy is a fine young man who can offer you and your boy a decent future but instead you keep on with those foolish notions of a life with Derek/Mr Abbott. Daughter, it's time you stopped wishin' your life away and did what's best for you and Phillip'.

To be fair Jill was never hot for David. While Derek had been introduced in Summer 76, when David showed up Derek was but a memory, Bell would take close to a year to bring him back. It was Snapper who told Jill not to settle for a comfortable life and to pave her own way and nudged her to go back to the Salon, to gain independance because he knew she was going to accept David's proposal for security and nothing more. As soon as she saw Derek, David was done, haha. 

And again to be fair, Derek made the moves and slept with Jill to show her she needed passion in her life. The D did get her hooked though, lol. 

I think Jill was hot for Andy but when she realised he loved camping and wanted to be a P.E teacher and live in the Foster house, she was over it. 

1 minute ago, soapfan770 said:

Maybe I’m misremembering it but I thought it was also bizarre that when Jill told Phillip III she was marrying John he objected to it and asked to go to boarding school instead…? Either way I though it was a strange reaction from a child.

Phillip was more angry because he saw the writing on the wall. He knew she was going to forget about him and focus on her 'new family' It was Jill who wanted to send him off to boarding school, but Phillip was so hurt and angry he was like 'fine I can't wait to go' 

12 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

Thanks for the reply. Am I correct that Andy was a teacher? Maybe they explained that in the script that he was working at The Bayou for extra cash in the Summer.

Thinking about it Danny would have worked at Jonas' club not The Allegro. So he would have interacted with Jonas.

Hope someone else can fill in the gaps.

Andy was going to take a job as a P.E teacher around the time Jill was eyeing off John in spring 1982. They may have mentioned earlier that he had been a teacher. Not sure. 

Allegro became Jonas' in Sep 1980, so yeah Danny worked for Jonas. I am pretty sure his first episode was meeting Patty. He was a singing waiter or at least sang while he waited, haha. Patty found him annoying but I guess charming enough that they began hanging around each other. 

Both Danny and Andy were introduced during a writers strike. I am almost certain Steven Ford was a last minute addition and was slotted into a bartender role until they could find him story, more likely the publicity of having an ex-President's son was worthwhile. I think Michael was probably hired to bring young blood and the bonus of being a singer, something Bell loved to incorporate. I am betting Conboy thought Michael was going to become a big star. Maybe another Rick Springfield or something. 

1981 wasn't a great year for the show and Danny and Andy came in just as Y&R changed time slots and I think CBS was trying to promote fresh, young talent. So it may have also been CBS that pushed for some younger actors too. 

12 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

Patty moved from days to Y&rR within a month I think-might have even been a week.

Gina the ex con- did she sleep with Jack?

Anyway she had story with Neil/Lauren story but then that was pretty much it. There was the Clint romance years later but even that was secondary to the Marge saga.

I wonder when she got involved with Jerry Birn? That probably cemented her place on the show and maybe she wasn't fussed not to be a lead.

Would love to see Gina back.

There was a few months gap between Days and Y&R. She didn't show up on Y&R until Nov 1982 and she had left Days in August.

I had heard Patty wanted to be recurring so she could focus on other things and was happy to just pop up from time to time. I was pretty sure her music career was a bigger focus, at least back in the 70's/early 80's. Or maybe Bell put her on recurring and she was happy to do it.

Not sure when they started dating but the first press article on them is 1994 and they married around Jan 1996

Yes Gina slept with Jack, I think a couple of times. He also helped her buy Jonas' place in return for a room in the place. Which worked out well when John kicked him out of the house because of his affair with Jill.

Yeah I think Patty was placed on recurring around 1985 when the Neil/Gina romance ended and Jim Storm was let go. Not sure if she was ever on contract again, don't think so or maybe just for a short period.