will81

25 minutes ago, FrenchFan said:

Thanks for the comment ! I think Lou Scofield took over in November 1968 and John Hess remained on the show as co-HW or breakdown. In his archives, he has breakdowns for late 68-69.

Before the first episodes of 1968 I had, there was a note, probably from Scofield, asking some scripts to be redone mainly to eliminate Charlie Clemens from the canvas.

This is clearly a transition moment. Scofield eliminated Charlie, Jerry, Archie and brought in Eleanor and the country club set: Alex and the Lockwoods (Wilfred, Nola, Laurie). I think Karen got axed too. Don't have much more information on her.

 

Variety reported November 01, 1968 that Lou Scofield had joined and was aiding John Hess

7 minutes ago, dc11786 said:

Winsor stepping in makes sense as it sounds like Ettlinger's departure wasn't planned. Pickard and Provo may have just been given scripts and projections from 1964 to have an idea of the show's characters, storylines, and tone. It's always possible they were working earlier. I do think during this time period they were also trying to relaunch "Wendy Warren and the News" as a televised daytime series.

Regarding Ettlinger and "Flame in the Wind," by the time the show becomes "Time for Us," Ettlinger is being credited as writer. The press for "Flame in the Wind" is mostly Joe Hardy explaining the vision for the show. There are some rather significant story shifts in February, 1965, for "Flame in the Wind" with the quick exit of Craig Reynolds, who was married to Roxanne Reynolds, lusted after author Kate Austen, and I believe was the object of affection for editor Flora Perkins. There was also a scheming reporter Ted Alcourt who also disappeared in February, 1965. I think in March the show introduced Liz Grey as the new threat to Kate Austen's happiness with attorney Tony Grey. Whether that was Phillips or Ettlinger's influence, I wouldn't know. 

Thanks for that info. Yeah I think Winsor was the main producer for LOL during this time and likely stepped in in that capacity and just kept things running until Pickard and Provo could get their stuff together.

My guess would be Ettlinger might have had completed scripts run through a bit of Jan 1965 as the announcement of his departure from Love of Life and transferring to Flame in the Wind was January 03, 1965.

In terms of Flame in the Wind. I think there was a slight heirarchy with Ettlinger consulting and Hardy taking his ideas up to Irna Phillips who then gave her ideas. So it would be impossible to know who came up with what story/character ideas. Plus likely they were consulting based on the writing team, so it is also possible in some cases they simply said the writers ideas were good and nothing was changed. 

1 hour ago, dc11786 said:

Hardy and Ettlinger had worked together on "Love of Life." Ettlinger ended up as the writer replacing the show's creator Raphael Hayes, or so I gather. 

I know that Provo and Pickard's scripts start in April, 1965, from their collection. I wonder if the show just worked off the projections from Ettlinger until Provo and Pickard assumed the roles. 

 

 

Yes Hardy was an associate producer on LOL. Apparently Irna Phillips was also a consultant on Flame in the Wind as well. I think she out ranked Ettlinger but apparently it all worked well, possibly with Irna having the more final say on things. Not sure

Pickard and Provo may have been there from the time Ettlinger left and just writing through the remainder of his projections. They have story projections and breakdowns in their script archive starting with 1964.

I also read somewhere (and don't know where) that Roy Winsor was HW in 1965. Maybe he went uncredited for a few months while Pickard and Provo got their stuff together?

The first script listed for Pickard and Provo is #3531 April 05, 1965 and the last #3630 Aug 20, 1965

I'm inclined to believe Winsor stepped in for a few months. Maybe Jan - Apr 1965

I found a piece in Variety that stated Ettlinger left Love of Life around Dec 64 or Jan 65 to work as a consultant on A Flame in the Wind. Joe Hardy brought him over.

Also from Variety Robert Soderberg began writing duties March 28, 1966

2 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

Didn't all cast members renegotiate when the show went to an hour? Did the new contracts supersede the previous eg If the previous contract was signed in Dec 78 for 3 years till Dec 81,the new contract signed in say Jan 80 would be a new 3 yr term.

But how does that explain Beau Kazar? He stayed for 9 months past that. I wish we could get actual contract information.

My bet is on 2.5 years and JLB re-signed early, say Dec 1979 and had the two months maternity leave added. That takes us to August 1982

4 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

Variety reports Dec 78 that Jaime Lyn Bauer has signed a new contract with CBS which included 'telefilms and episodic outings' as well as CBS 'to eye series possibilities'

I assume that JLB signed a 5 yr contract when she started Dec 73 and those inducements were added to get her to sign on again. But like performers before and after, very little came of it. It seems the promises made were not really followed through and the contracts vague enough that the performer had no real redress.

Do we know of any primetime roles that JLB had in that time? I know she did a Tom Selleck pilot'Boston & Killbride' and there is a TV movie'Mysterious Island of Beautiful Women' Was that CBS?

Maybe JLB was so busy with Y&R and personal stuff she didn't really pursue much?

Mysterious Island was CBS and aired Dec 01, 1979

I wonder what the contract terms were in Dec 78. If it was 3 years then she did both those shows in 1979 and was basically out all of 1980 due to her difficult pregnancy and more than two months of maternity leave, which apparently was added to the length of her contract. 

Even after she returned from maternity leave she wasn't working as much on Y&R intially. I'd say the idea of doing more work outside of Y&R wasn't as appealing as it had been prior to her pregnancy and likely nothing of value came along in 1981. 

I wonder if this was the case, meaning that contract would have come up around Feb 1982, she made it known she was planning to leave and agreed on a shorter six month stint. 

I did forget to mention. When Bill Espy left in Sep 1975 he stated in an interview he left when his contract came up. So it is possible 2.5 year deals were offered as well.

16 hours ago, Broderick said:

I *guess* #6 is about as low as Y&R will go before ultimately beginning its climb back to #1.  

If Days had been in better shape, I'd say Y&R would have dropped far further in the ratings during this period. Days struggling more was a saving grace in a lot of ways.

Though I also think Y&R had a strong base viewership who were willing to weather the storm. 

6 hours ago, Soapsuds said:

What caused the huge jump for YR and SFT?

Nikki had also just killed her father Nick Reed a week or so prior and that may have brought people in that stayed.

I'm also fairly certain Y&R dominated the summer of 79 and was #1 for a lot of it. 

6 hours ago, kalbir said:

@JoeCool I'm hardly an expert, but thank you for the compliment

I don't know about time shifting in 1979, but with Y&R expansion on February 4, 1980, there were two different schedules I've seen CBS affiliates use.

10 am Eastern/9 am Central, Mountain, Pacific The Jeffersons reruns

10:30 am/9:30 am Whew!

11 am/10 am The Price is Right

Noon/11 am Local programming

12:30 pm/11:30 am Search for Tomorrow

1 pm/Noon Y&R

2 pm/1 pm As the World Turns

3 pm/2 pm Guiding Light

4 pm/3 pm One Day at a Time reruns

or

9 am Central, Mountain, Pacific The Jeffersons reruns

9:30 am Whew!

10 am The Price is Right

11 am Y&R

Noon Local programming

12:30 pm Search for Tomorrow

1 pm As the World Turns

2 pm Guiding Light

3 pm One Day at a Time reruns

These are the top 10 tv markets prior to the expansion but post April 1979 for CBS The ones in blue are affiliates and the green/turquoise are O&O's

Here is 6 months after Y&R went to 1 Hour

On 6/13/2023 at 4:36 AM, JoeCool said:

All My Children very strong Number 1...Daisy and Palmer! Cliff and Nina. Nina's masquerade costume birthday party!! Y&R struggling after the time change and expansion but still strong. AW beginning its descent and ATWT no longer Number 1 but still strong.

I wonder how many markets shifted Y&R in Feb 1980. I looked at the Top 10 TV markets and most had already moved the show down an hour starting in April 1979 when CBS' new game Whew began. Those that didn't time shift in April 1979 also kept the show in the same timeslot even after its expansion to an hour.

I wonder if this happened in other markets and ultimately how many had to time shift Y&R on Feb 04, 1980. 

On 6/18/2023 at 1:03 AM, AbcNbc247 said:

Interesting how Nina Laemmle was always blamed for the massacre. When we were discussing late 70s-early 80s Days a while back in the classic Days thread, it got pretty clear that all the firings and all the changes were spearheaded by Al Rabin. They started as soon as he got there. 

Luckily, he was able to turn the show around after all this. And was able to last through most of the 80s.

Laemmle was announced in Jan 1980 and as a replacement for Elizabeth Harrower and so there was a delay between Harrower leaving and Nina starting.

Maybe when Al Rabin came in, he quickly hired Ruth Brooks Flippen to clean house for him, possibly so Nina could come in with a "clean slate" 

Would be interesting to know what the deal was. 

On 6/13/2023 at 12:19 PM, JAS0N47 said:

In regards to the 1977-1978 TV season ratings, since I see they differ from the ones posted at Wiki, what accounts for the difference? 

Are the ones at Wiki only for September-April/May and not counting the summer months?

If so, what week in 1978 should I post the "season" averages for. Something around late April/early May?

UPDATE: Okay, I just read the Wiki page again and it states it is only the September-April ratings. Unfortunately, that is the one issue (late April 1978) that I do not have, so we won't be able to compare the ratings for the 1977-1978 season to see how they do.

But at least now we know that there will be "full season" (October-September) ratings for 1978, 1979 and 1980 available for the first time online. Hopefully Nielsen doesn't make that same mistake in September 1979 with the CBS soaps.

 

Probably old info but I believe starting in 1977 up until 1995 the season ended the third Sunday in April and after a dead ratings week (usually just over a week), May Sweeps would begin.

It was in early 1996 that all four networks agreed to start incorporating May Sweeps into their overall season. This was previously only for local stations (ind. and affiliates)

2 hours ago, BoldRestless said:

This is what was happening on Y&R. It doesn't really sound that hot to me.

 

THE YOUNG & THE RESTLESS: Week of January 15 - January 19, 1979

Stu told his daughters he’ll marry Jill, who learned Kay agreed to divorce Derek.  Lance tried to get closer to Lucas, while Vanessa tempted Lucas to take over the company from his brother.  Suzanne realized she’ll lose her meal ticket if Kay divorces Derek.  Peggy railed against Stu’s decision.

 

THE YOUNG & THE RESTLESS: Week of January 22 - January 26, 1979

Liz was devastated and thew Jill out after learning of Jill’s marriage plans with Stu.  Lucas and Leslie couldn’t return to Switzerland when she had premature labor pains.  Kay and Suzanne joined forces to intercept Derek from meeting Jill before Jill left to wed Stu.  Lorie was nervous when Lance rushed to check on Leslie’s condition.

 

I think the lead up to Jill marrying Stu and the aftermath of Lorie finding out Leslie was pregnant with Lance's baby and almost having the baby in GC might have drawn people in.

It may have played out better than it reads

9 hours ago, JAS0N47 said:

Yes, I know. "Days", when it aired on NBC until last year, would end at 58:11, but the final commercial break of 1:49 until the next show started would be counted as part of the 60-minute Days Nielsen telecast.

I was just pointing out about Love of Life. Since it aired for only 24 minutes (including commercials), followed by a 6-minute CBS newscast, Love of Life was probably the shortest runtime of any soap (when you removed the commercials), being less than the average 22-minute half hour soap. Possibly only being 18 minutes or so.

Yeah 100% LOL was probably on 18 min without commercials. I think even B&B is close to 20 min or maybe 19 these days

38 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

This was the Corringtons. They started around September 78 so their stories were now in full swing with the Travis and Liza romance the A story. and ratings jumped from high 6's and low 7's to 8.5.

Yes I have an approximate date of Sep 11 for their start

5 hours ago, JAS0N47 said:

All of the other soaps are listed by Nielsen as either 30 or 60 minutes. Love of Life stood out since it is listed as 24 minutes. There are 1-2 minute Newsbriefs rated separately by Nielsen, which air during the soap broadcasts, that are technically included in the 30 or 60 minute broadcasts. I guess those aired as part of a commercial break during some of the soaps.

For the week of 12/18/78-12/22/78, for instance, here are the additional daytime programs aired during soaps:

CBS Mid-Day News-Edwards 11:54-12:00 (5.5 rating/23 share)

ABC Newsbrief is aired during All My Children (sustaining, no rating)

NBC News Update is aired during Doctors & Another World (both sustaining, no rating)

Oh yeah but I think networks counted the last commercial after the end credits. Y&R would run to 12:28 and then there would be commercials between it and Search. This was the same in Primetime. Most shows ended 1 - 2 min before the half hour or hour with a commercial break. But these shows were all listed as 30 or 60 min shows.

In the 90's I think NBC started getting rid of this between certain shows so people had less chance of changing the channel. Friends would end on the half hour so the new show at 8:30 would start immediately but that show would end 2 min early and another commercial break before Seinfeld. Then Seinfeld would end right on 9:30 and the next show would start immediately. 

In the 70's, I don't think any show in primetime or daytime ended bang on the half hour or hour. 

in terms of those other news shows. It might have been down to the network not seeing those as official, but likely part of a mid show commercial break that included a news update and CBS saw Mid-Day News as part of the daytime schedule. 

12 hours ago, JAS0N47 said:

FROM THE VAULT: WEEKLY DAYTIME NIELSEN RATINGS: WEEKS OF 12/11/78-12/15/78 & 12/18/78-12/22/78:

 

Note about Love of Life. I was surprised to notice today that its runtime each day was only 24 minutes. It aired from 1130-1154, followed by 6 minutes of CBS Mid-Day News. So, with some commercials, I guess it was the shortest runtime of any of the soaps.

I think most half hour shows around 1978 with commercials ran around 28 min. Close to 22 min without. Maybe CBS had slightly less commercials for Love of Life but I'd still guess it must have ran around 18 - 19 minutes without commercials. 

6 minutes ago, BoldRestless said:

Thanks so much for the detailed info!

 

Wow. So the mystery continues.  I am wondering if they repeated an episode like Chris & Snapper's wedding. I know in some correspondence, Bell was trying to use a lot of clips of the wedding in episodes and highlight that to advertisers to try to get a new ratings high (I presume because it was cleared in more affiliates than it had been when it originally aired in January 1974). @will81 @yrfan1983 and @YRfan23 will be interested in this info!

Thanks Jason47 for the info and @BoldRestless for asking about this one. 

I'm going with the idea of a repeat. Maybe Columbia/Sony and CBS and Bell thought it was worth repeating Chris and Snapper's wedding to an audience that had missed it. Either way I feel like Sep 04 can probably be seen as a pre-emption of sorts. 

In terms of the contractual obligation with advertisers maybe they also didn't want to lose too much revenue in areas where the show could still be aired, so they aired something where possible. Just not a new episode. 

2 hours ago, JAS0N47 said:

I have a lot of TV reference books, but Unicorn Tales was pretty hard to track down. I remembered I had a syndicated encyclopedia from the 1980's and found it in that! 

 

So it was a syndicated show. Thanks for tracking it down. I might look to see what other episodes aired and if I can find any other cast and production information, from the tv lisitings it sounds elaborate and like it might have had a decent budget. Especially if they are comparing it to Faerie Tale Theatre. 

1 hour ago, BetterForgotten said:

As different as Y&R may have been from its P&G neighbors on the CBS lineup, I think a great deal of those P&G soap fans were still drawn to Y&R as Bell was still a traditionalist in many ways. For years, I think the Bell soaps complemented the P&G soaps even as they also served as an alternative. 

I do feel it held him back a bit though. I think Bell had a certain conservatism but you can see moments where he tried to break out of it and the audience wasn't having it and he backed off. I feel ABCD audiences might have taken more to his pushing the limits. 

20 minutes ago, Khan said:

For some reason, whenever I see the title LOVERS AND FRIENDS, I hear this duet playing in my head:

 

Well Dion is a Queen so I'd be happy to get her voice stuck in my head : )

28 minutes ago, JAS0N47 said:

All the Nielsen reports list is "Special Treat" (no episode titles). So I looked in the newspaper listings, and I guess Unicorn Tales is the local/syndicated program that the New York affiliate aired in the For Richer time slot. The 4PM slot in New York is listed as Special Treat: Luke Was There (a children's story with Scott Baio). So that is the network program that was rated. Unicorn Tales was local and not listed at all in the Nielsen report.

Oh awesome, thanks for the info. I guess the NYC NBC O&O had enough money to produce their own show. It wouldn't surprise me anyway. 

7 minutes ago, Khan said:

If not for the fact that that show was a Harding Lemay/Paul Rauch creation, I'm sure NBC would have cut it loose long before they actually did.

True, I guess had they not been involved the retooling would never have happened. Lovers and Friend would have simply been cancelled.

9 minutes ago, JAS0N47 said:

They are doing it because of specials they aired on those days in the 4PM time slot (an open slot). So I guess they gave back a half hour to their affiliates by not airing For Richer those days. So far, the 4PM specials to necessitate For Richer preemptions have been several editions of "Special Treat" (I think the NBC version of ABC Afternoon Special) and a Bob Hope golf tournament.

I notice in New York they aired a show called Unicorn Tales, was Special Treat something different? Unicorn Tales had a remake of Wizard of Oz and a musical remake of Alice in Wonderland

NBC sure seemed to enjoy pre-empting For Richer, For Poorer, and not even for any good reason. 

4 minutes ago, JoeCool said:

Actually she was okay with it - she said Kay just got a little too close with JOann. She LOVED Kay and Y&R. She watched it until she died at 92 which was in '92.

Awesome, yeah she did get a little too possessive of her, haha. So great your grandma loved the show so much!

Changing track. I think Henry Slesar took over SFT around this time. He was definitely there by the week of Mar 20, 1978 but not sure if that was his first week or not. He lasts about six months. Will be interesting to see the week to week ratings. The Corringtons take over around the week of Sep 11 approximately. 

5 hours ago, JoeCool said:

My mom loved Y and R...my great grandmother (Mom's grandmother) on my Mom's side Nana who was born in Ireland....strict Catholic loved it...she would not answer the phone if you called during Y and R!

Was she okay with the sort of lesbian story with Kay/Joann? Y&R's ratings did drop in 1977 as a result and I think they were still recovering in 1978

7 hours ago, Soapsuds said:

GL dropping out of the top five. Dropped all the way to #9. Any reason why?

That is interesting as it's audience share doesn't really drop much. So it seems overall that timeslot lost households. At least that's how I read it. 

You can see it drop from an 8.4 to a 7.9 but it maintains a 27% share and then it falls again to 7.6 and finally drops 1% share point. So despite it's big tumble in rank, overall it was still mostly maintaing its share of the available audience.