DRW50

I think the first 4-5 years have many strong spots, some beautiful writing, and I didn't find it that hard to watch, but one of the main issues with the show for me - and this just gets worse - is many of the characters we are told to root for I find extremely unlikeable.

I don't see the people who were brought into AW around 1986 as being that different from JFP, but I don't feel like going back and forth either.

I can see both sides here. I don't believe that everything in that period was intended as comedy, but I think John Considine played the part in a very mustache-twirling way, as did Marcus Smythe as Peter until near the end, and that did come across as the material not being taken seriously. And I think the same is true of some of the treatment of other stories. The Sin Stalker, for instance, has that incredibly batshit material with Crystal Gayle being attacked. It's pure WTF, and something that, if done in more recent decades, would probably end up having the part played by a Drag Race queen or a Real Housewife. The main takeaway I have from that period is how little those running the show cared. There's just a callousness. And that leads to a real cynicism onscreen.

I liked the actress who played Tina. She was not the typical soap hire. I hadn't thought of her in many years until I saw a Spauldingfield video of her. It makes sense if they were planning to make her Frank's daughter as she was tied to the Coopers and nothing else was done with her beyond singing and the relationship with Marcus that Rauch never cared about. David was hurt by Monti Sharp leaving the role. I don't blame Monti for leaving, as he was getting less and less to do, but Russell Curry was a very generic actor was too old for the part. Yes, black don't crack, but he was nearly 40. When David returns at the end of the decade they cast an actor who was a little too young, which just shows how little interest the show had in the character or black characters in general (and random recasting would return with the Boudreauxs). Marcus is a character who got a lot of buzz early on and then the show lost interest (again). Anyway, if you stay watching, be warned that the Hart/Dinah/Roger stuff gets worse and worse. Luckily you don't have the same lengthy ties to the show so it may be OK for you. It made me feel a bit sick at the time. Thanks for giving more info. And to @DeeVee and @P.J. as well. I suppose there were tiers of people who were seen as disposable, and Eve was shielded for a time due to that tier. Once they were clearly getting rid of characters like Justin or Amanda, then she was also on that list (I know she left before they did but it wasn't that long before). Characters like Eve, quiet, able to be used in many avenues, are important for community, or they should be, although she had clearly reached a natural end. The problem is no one really replaced her - all the characters who were likely seen as dull were shipped out from 83-85, and we were left with an unbalanced canvas (and characters who were meant to be exciting but were still dull, like Calla, Simon, et al).

I don't really think Loving is worse than most of what I've seen from RH starting around 1980, although I know the show picks up again around 1987 and has a few spots here and there in between. I think it is easier to ignore RH's mistakes in that final decade if Loving gets the blame.

Thanks for sharing. Always nice to see more of Lois. I wasn't sure if she was meant to be French or Dutch. Reminds me of when Grayson Hall would do French on Dark Shadows.

Thanks for the fuller story. Steve Guthrie was a loss to the show, but I can't really blame Nicholson.

I can't remember exactly, but I think the claim was it involved a team baseball game.

Sorry to hear that - take whatever time you need.

Joel Crothers would have been perfect as Owen (maybe because Margo wasn't too far off Denise). A shame he couldn't have played a dual role. Eliot did have more room to grow. I wonder if whatever allegedly happened with Denny Albee played a part in both their exits.

I think she left before Justin. I remember someone saying her last scene is dancing with Ross at the ball, telling him she's leaving to be with Ben.

I think Ben had already left while under Marland and only returned briefly to reconcile with Eve. The whole thing confuses me as I thought for a long time that Eve left the show to go be with him and that was when they reconciled, but it seems like he returned, they got back together, then he left and maybe they were still together until she left to join him? I have no idea. It does seem like the interim writers were using some characters like Justin and Helena who were quickly dumped under Kobe/Long, which is a shame. Helena is one of those characters who likely always had a shelf life but Rose Alaio was such a vibrant screen presence, if Kobe/Long had just been patient, she likely would have fit in well in the Reva era.

There's still a year or two before Larkin arrives. Joel is there already. EON does noticeably youthify, although I think they carry it off. Admittedly I haven't seen most of the Jody stories, which from what people here have said aren't great.

Thanks.

Thanks @Paul Raven That Grainger story always reads like hog-wild melodrama, not very similar to the more subtle stories for Rita in her last few years. I wonder how Lenore played the material.

That's true. He may have ended up keeping her on a recurring basis, like Dr. Michaels on ATWT. I'm trying to remember if GL had a similar long-running therapist.

Oh in terms of ratings I think it would have been in a dicey place probably even before then. I mostly was just thinking of if the show could have carried on creatively.

I like Margaret well enough in what I've seen of her as Paige - she is green but she has real star power. I agree about the actor who plays Brian. He's...mostly just there. Not bad but not great. My main issue is with the guy who plays Owen. He's just not appealing to me. I can believe Nola being obsessed with him, but he's draining to watch. I'm surprised people objected to the quasi-incest elements as it wasn't anything that new for soaps. Speaking of Kim, here's a rare episode of an anthology show she did called The Evil Touch.

I get what you're both saying, and I think the show was lucky to have even made it that long, but I think they could have still maintained a certain audience - Second Chances did before the earthquake. CBS was an older network anyway. I think the premise of Knots was still usable, it was more the characters who were a problem - many of the older figures were played out. If the show had done a better job building up its younger cast instead of making so many poor choices in the late '80s and early '90s, they could have kept things going a little longer.

Somerset.

That's great to hear. Thanks. I wish that was more readily available.

I think even if Marland had wanted to write more for Sara/Adam, his hands would have been tied as Robert Milli was one of the actors dumped by P&G due to his age. From the bits and pieces I've seen of that period, Sara does have a key role in the Carrie plot, and Marland briefly gave her son Tim a more important part. I'm not sure if they just gave up on Tim once Kevin Bacon left or if they never really cared. I did not even know for many years that there was an actor in the part after Kevin...and then not one, but two. The Spauldingfield video on Tim doesn't even show the last actor (Nigel Reed), which kind of says it all. Anyway, I do get the sense Marland has some use for Sara, or for Millette. It's only after he goes that she is dumped. Of course he didn't ever hire her for his other shows, so maybe I'm wrong. (then again he never hired Geraldine Court either and he seemed very fond of her) Ann is an odd character to me as she is a proto-Lillian in being defined by pining for a Bauer brother and being involved in the death of one of their wives. I do wonder what else they could have done with her. She was friends with Diane, wasn't she? They could have had Diane manipulate her against Mike, I suppose.

She was so wonderful. Glad your handle has been a tribute to her.

Thanks @Paul Raven . I love that she even drew up a petition. A shame she didn't get to finish out that storyline, although it seemed to become a mess anyway.

It's funny to think one of the only later mentions of Justin/Sarah was in The Guiding Plight. They had some decent chemistry in the 1976 episode put out on DVD.