Guiding Light discussion thread

[DRW50]

No I hadn't seen those. Thanks for letting me know. Where are they? Great to hear people like Kathleen Cullen and Denise Pence were involved. I wish Kathleen had come back to GL one last time.

[~bl~]

The brunch... http://t.co/xYLN3qNK

The bowling event that was held later that day in same venue... (has GL and OLTL pictures) http://stevenbergmanphotography.com/ximagi/search.php?sort=celeb&assignment_id=1723#page=0&view=gallery&key=

[DRW50]

May 1992 Digest

[MissLlanviewPA]

http://www.soapoperadigest.com/content/gl-alum-comes-out-lesbian

[Cat]

Well, I saw the Maureen Garrett news and just because I am a soap fan, I clicked on the link which led to more links and some YouTube video regarding Holly and Roger's backstory. Oh. MY. GOD.

I never knew. I never understood. I heard about GL -- the old GL, the great GL -- but my exposure to it was KZ and LW chewing anything in sight and some guy called Jeffrey stinking up the place. Oh, and Jammy. And then GL went outdoors and I just couldn't watch face something so cheap-looking.

The Holly-Roger clips OTOH? Were amazing. I'm not just talking about marital rape which was tough and honest and MG did that story so much credit and honesty. I am talking about their stories involving Blake and Ed Bauer and these two incredibly complex, multifaceted characters. I just saw a clip where a drunken Holly tells Blake she never loved her. Astounded at how good the acting is, how drawn I am into the story. MG is just amazing. MZ is a force of nature. I am rediscovering something special about GL for the first time (I am also catching up on some 1983 clips of the show, it's a lot of fun). I am only sad to have discovered the show after its demise and not during its glory, as I did with AW.

[Khan]

Which is exactly why I stopped watching after 25 years. Of course, if you go by GH's current HW, Ron Carlivati, that means I never was a fan in the first place.

[DRW50]

When I first started watching GL, I had no idea characters like Holly and Roger were so unique to the show. I loved them, and their relationships with the people around them (like Blake, Ross, Alex, Gilly, Ed, among many others) were not something that could not be matched elsewhere.

I am so grateful to have had that day-to-day experience, for years, of seeing Holly and her neurotic, darkly witty relationships, seeing her go to work, go home, drink, cry, laugh. We got everything. And I wouldn't trade it for anything.

[Khan]

Such a beautiful sentiment, Carl, and I.C.A.M.

[~bl~]

Cat welcome if you have any questions please ask one of us can fill you in on the older stuff. Hearing about what GL was and then seeing what you saw it is understandable that you didn't get it.

That comment from Carlivati was so offensive on many levels.

I felt lucky at the time when GL was on and really wonderful as I never saw anything like it. We were lucky that we had the time we did, and I wouldn't trade that away.

[Cat]

That's how I felt about watching Santa Barbara, GH, Days back in the day. I'm sorry I missed GL the first time around and, while it's not the same, thank goodness for YouTube. I am catching up slowly but will undoubtedly be back in this thread to read posts and post random questions, lol.

[Cat]

OK, so I have a question.

On other threads, there has been much debate about Daytime's penchant for rapists, and redeeming rapists, and pairing them up with their victim. Like rape is somehow romantic. I think the overwelming consensus is that this is one of those awful, misogynistic themes that run through soaps which should be retired. So how do you feel about it in context to Roger & Holly on GL?

I watched a TV special called Roger Thorpe - The Scandal Years on YouTube. It looked like it was put together in the early 90s, and Michael Zaslow and Maureen Garrett presented it. The special had tons of clips detaling the characters and their history on the show (as an aside, the intense friendship between MZ and MG is plain to see -- they cuddle each other as they watch the clips. It is very moving to watch). They show the affair, the marriage, the rape (which is certainly not romanticized in any way), the trial, and Holly's shooting of Roger, which was somehow rather empowering as a viewer. Then the Santo Domingo scenes (sigh, a proper international shoot!) and later, Roger's return and how Holly was slowly being drawn to him again...

I can't deny the intense chemistry between the two actors, and I buy that these two have something dark and troubled in them that binds them together again and again. They are obsessed with each other. At this point, I buy everything they are selling me.

The rape is there and a huge factor in their relationship -- but it doesn't define the relationship completely. In some ways this is complex and refreshing. In other ways, it is worrying that I want to watch these two so much after what he did.

What do you guys think? Is this yet another case of two actors who have chemistry overwelming the natural evolution of a SL? Or an organic, fascinating exploration of two people's very dark relationship?

This brings to mind a scene from Santo Domingo... Holly and Roger are stuck in that grotto. Holly, sick with fear and anger, screams and rushes for him like she's about to strangle him. Roger does the same. Then they stop and just kind of look at each other. It is hard to describe the scene because there is so much going on in terms of emotions -- they seem to be mirrors of each other in a lot of ways.

Other thoughts:

Maureen Garrett's Holly is no weeping wallflower. I love how real and complicated she is, how multifaceted and witty and sad she can be. Her mellifluous, grave voice is so wonderful, I could listen to her speak all day -- such a contrast with the brittle, nasally voices of actresses today. They do not write characters like that anymore, but how I wish they did. So compelling and yet so recognizeably human.

Chris Bernau -- what an amazing Alan! I only ever saw Ron Raines but CB blows him off the map. I know Roger and Alan were big rivals but at one point Roger confides in him about kidnapping Christina and leaving town, and it adds a whole different layer to this rivalry/frenemyship.

Michael Zaslow is... no words. He brings energy and oxygen to every scene. Force of nature. Roger must have been as popular a character as Reva, perhaps even moreso (I've been watching 1983 GL and Reva is kind of hokey, a loud soap character like any other). It must have been a huge blow to the show when he was fired.

Ross Marler -- hero or villain? Discuss.

Edited October 13, 2012 by Cat

[DRW50]

Ross was, aside from his first year or two, always a hero. He was self-righteous sometimes, a little weasely at times, but always very good and decent at heart once he moved away from being Roger's scummy lawyer. The show rarely used him as a leading man, but he was first matured through his fondness for Rita's somewhat mousy, sweet sister, Eve, and then his marriage to damaged Carrie (Jane Eliot). You can find some Ross/Carrie stuff on Youtube.

When Holly returned to the show in 1989 and became friendly (and eventually romantic) with Ross, they did address the way he behaved towards her during the rape trial.

Edited October 13, 2012 by CarlD2

[DRW50]

Roger and Holly had a very complex history for nearly a decade before the rape, as she was drawn to Roger, and loved Roger, as he was drawn to her, but they were both very screwed up people. He was more devoted to Peggy, and her son, who were "good" people, as Ed Bauer was "good." When they finally did marry, Roger still felt inferior to Ed.

I think fans were more torn about Roger and Holly once they returned in 1989 because their relationship went back a long way before the rape (which wasn't true for most of the "rape is love" couples on soaps - I think the only other one was Bill and Laura on DAYS), and because GL was a hugely, hugely transitory show. GL had undergone unimaginable changes between 1980 and 1989. Many of the older viewers were gone. Many of the viewers had never seen the rape story, or anything before it. They mostly just saw a very intense relationship between Holly and a semi-redeemed Roger.

I honestly think that the show was best off when Roger and Holly weren't an actual couple, because Roger had to be significantly watered down to justify why Holly would want a life with him. But then, they were never a couple during a well-written period of GL (not counting the first go-round).

[DRW50]

The other thing is that Pam Long, or someone, seemed to write a lot of scenes for them together which had a ton of banter and chemistry before the actual rape storyline was addressed again. I think this also blurred lines for viewers. If I remember correctly, the actors asked for clarification, which led to the story in Acapulco where Alexandra, who was convinced that Roger was lying to her or cheating on her, asked Holly to spy on him or something. This led to the two of them almost having sex, until she began remembering the rape. Then they talked through the rape. But he realized she was working for Alex, and felt betrayed.

Edited October 13, 2012 by CarlD2

[Khan]

It's been, what, three years? And still, I find it so difficult to talk about this show I loved with all my heart.

I'm afraid I can't add too much more to Carl's comments re: Roger & Holly's relationship. Would I have minded if GUIDING LIGHT had paired them romantically again (which is where I suspect they were heading at one point)? Not really. After all, the show had actually done the work of convincing me, and others, that a full-fledged reunion, while not entirely believable, was certainly logical for these two, without once whitewashing or minimizing their turbulent history. Moreover, as Carl mentioned, R&H had years of push-and-pull before the rape. That, plus the fact that they had conceived a child, made any sort of relationship they might've had deliciously fraught with history, tension, and complication. To put it another way: even if R&H had been able to move onto other partners, they'd never be entirely out of each other's orbit, rape or no rape; and truly, that was the best part of their dynamic.

On another front, although I fully understand how many might look at someone like Reva as "hokey," I must admit, I loved that part of GL just as much as I loved Roger and Holly. In fact, I loved all of GUIDING LIGHT -- well, not all. I could have done without Johnny Bauer's cancer.