2 hours ago, Vee said:

Sonny could pay for some of his crimes in some real way, for once. He could lose his empire and have to struggle to rebuild something. That's a story he has never done. Unlike all the boring shít he does everyday. There's a reason Steve's return flopped until he was put back with the Qs. It's because the mob trio stories where they're all the heroes are washed and everyone involved looks old and tired. It's not 2003.

I don't care about Jagger but it's idiotic that they did the story where Sonny murders a federal agent and then abandoned it. Meanwhile Sonny is old, tired and incredibly boring. I'm sure they'll bring it up again in another year or two when they need some other plot point and pretend they planned it all along.

I have posted before my dream Sonny storyline. He gets caught for something and goes to jail. Actual jail. And while inside some young guy ends up impressing him. He once again mentors a young man into being his enforcer. They have to cast well, an attractive young man who resembles Sonny as far as the intensity and the swoon aspects of young Maurice. They of course get out of jail after 6 months or so because of some soap nonsense. And within a span of two years of story, this kid ends up being to Sonny what he was to Frank Smith and Joe Scully. He wants the crown for himself, he’s young and hungry and dangerous.

Then Brenda re-enters the picture. And from there you have two options- Sonny stays true to what he told her about power when their marriage dissolved, and even if I had Sonny ultimately kill the new guy, it would be as he was also dying. He still chooses the power of Brenda and everything else. Or he goes through all that violence again and chooses the other path. He gets rid of the new guy and actually dismantles his own organization, finally leaving with Brenda and ensuring some safety for everybody else. Either way the entire story is an exit and it’s something that explores his character deeper and isn’t something he has faced before.

I disagree. If Jason's return flopped it was because of the BTG antics rather than what was on screen. There was enough going on with him and an interesting direction that could have and should have been used after the initial return story of him being blackmailed over Carly's actions. We mentioned the fact of Jason readjusting to PC and wanting closer connections to his kids and how PM was setting up that Sins of the Father storyline which was intriguing (though I know young actors' ability to emote can vary...and did at that time). And as I mentioned often (though I know opinions as well as Frank's agenda also can vary), it was the first time in forever that Jason was back in town AND single while Liz was slowly detaching from Finn finally and those two were sharing scenes throughout the first few months of Jason's return. And as I mentioned a few times...Brennan setting up WSB shop in PC and offering Jason a job would have been a way to keep Jason independent of Sonny and the mob AND keep the action Jason that the audience of the show are used to and love sometimes. It would have made for even more friction between Jason, Carly, and Brennan...moreso if everyone had gone with the tease of a Carly/Brennan/Anna triangle back then. Heck...the weird tension between Jason/Anna could have organically came into play with that, too.

 

Also as mentioned, they started moving Jason toward the Qs then as well. So that would not at all have been affected. And as I continued to say then and now...I am aware that Steve Burton is a good actor, but he also tended to have checked out before his second-to-last (?) exit when I was viewing. His return has found Steve Burton IMHO humbled, mellowed, and he emotes for me in a way that I don't recall him doing (outside of a pairing) in a long, long time. He really regained a fan in me. Moreso now that he's more about the Qs and less trying to be Sonny's enforcer. 

2 hours ago, titan1978 said:

I have posted before my dream Sonny storyline. He gets caught for something and goes to jail. Actual jail. And while inside some young guy ends up impressing him. He once again mentors a young man into being his enforcer. They have to cast well, an attractive young man who resembles Sonny as far as the intensity and the swoon aspects of young Maurice. They of course get out of jail after 6 months or so because of some soap nonsense. And within a span of two years of story, this kid ends up being to Sonny what he was to Frank Smith and Joe Scully. He wants the crown for himself, he’s young and hungry and dangerous.

Then Brenda re-enters the picture. And from there you have two options- Sonny stays true to what he told her about power when their marriage dissolved, and even if I had Sonny ultimately kill the new guy, it would be as he was also dying. He still chooses the power of Brenda and everything else. Or he goes through all that violence again and chooses the other path. He gets rid of the new guy and actually dismantles his own organization, finally leaving with Brenda and ensuring some safety for everybody else. Either way the entire story is an exit and it’s something that explores his character deeper and isn’t something he has faced before.

And it's an extended arc. And I love every part of it. The layers. The fact that the writers and Mo can have their cake and eat it, too, because the audience would eat this up. The cherry on top being Brenda. And we deal with that breakup and Sonny's speech.

 

I really love that you mentioned that he would have to cool his heels in jail for six months. GOOD. That would satisfy though of us who feel he needs some punishment for the last few years. 

15 hours ago, carolineg said:

There isn't any real defense for killing Jagger and I'll be honest I don't even remember why Sonny killed him.

 

14 hours ago, DRW50 said:

Did they claim he was accosting Kristina? I can't remember either.

Yep. And Wagger had already been warned by Sonny to leave his kids alone. 

32 minutes ago, Taoboi said:

I really love that you mentioned that he would have to cool his heels in jail for six months. GOOD. That would satisfy though of us who feel he needs some punishment for the last few years. 

It serves that purpose, and also gives you time to see a bond develop so that the betrayal down the road means more. Plus as others have mentioned over the years, including @Vee in this thread, Sonny has never faced anything like that before. Laura has been in jail. Michael too. It would give Mo something to play that isn’t tied to having a mental breakdown, which jeopardizes his actual real life mental health every time they do it.

And speaking of Liz...

 

Let me take a moment...now that I have it and waiting for the coffee to kick in so I get stuff done pre-work...to discuss Monica's funeral.

 

I love the start of it. I did not like the week where it had a whole lot of stories around it (namely, Britt's return and the incoming return of Nathan) that very much distracted from Monica dying. The saving grace? That the focus was on Tracy and Jason aka where the focus SHOULD have been. It is okay to let scenes breathe and great actors emote. And TE and SB were superb dealing with the aftermath. When I think the words 'the body,' I think of the Buffy episode of the same name...an episode I really have not and don't think I could rewatch after its initial broadcast...it hits different once you've lost a parent. But it hit beforehand as well.  So the medic saying that was triggering. In any case...I just love Tracy and Jason bonding...something that has been building over the last few months and it was crystalized here.

 

I was VERY happy that the writers got a clue. While they did continue with those other storylines...they shifted ...becoming intriguing in their own right rather than taking away from the focus on Monica. And thank you to @Antoyne for the tag. I know it happened when Alan died as well from what I've been told, but yes, I did swoon when the first scene of the episodes around Monica's actual funeral was on Jason...WITH LIZ. Such a small scene. But as I have said...'smells like snow' (and Liz letting SJB Carly know she ain't no angel) is one of my favorite scenes and when I started to like Jason and Liz together so yes, I like that little touch of Liz being there for Jason.

 

Sidenote...I loved everything building up to the funeral. All of the emoting that TE did...not just with Tracy among the Quartermaines, but Lucy. With Michael. With the returning Lois. I didn't like the silliness of the side-story of Tracy running off, but I loved Tracy with Lois. Honorable mention to WK who I don't at all feel was just acting of course. There was not a scene that Ned was in that WK didn't look like he was beside himself and about to break. My heart went out to him.

 

The funeral was beautiful. The speeches were beautiful. I felt it was all allowed to breathe. I liked Tracy's struggle to speak. I liked Lucy's moment. I liked that it got a little bit soapy with Drew's arrival and how he was about to get his butt kicked by Jason...may their rivalry NEVER let up. I loved the flashbacks throughout and how they started small, but the full episode that had them. That montage broke me. Alan! AT's Emily! My eyes are watering just thinking about it.

 

And then the Friday cliffhanger with the arrival of Erica as Veronica (Frank just can't let a good OLTL homage pass him by, can he?) was well done. It sounds like as I continue playing catch up...I'm not going to like Erica's character...though I looooove Erica since though I don't frequent that thread often (surprisingly) OLTL was my first soap that felt like MY soap versus my mother's soap...if that makes sense and Victoria Lord...my first older...heroine? Matriarch? But I also find @carolineg's recent thoughts on Ronnie understandable. Cuz this after all ISN'T OLTL. So her coming on...for a short arc and not even to stay...must seem unintentionally patronizing as a GH fan. Early apologies from me.

13 minutes ago, titan1978 said:

It serves that purpose, and also gives you time to see a bond develop so that the betrayal down the road means more. Plus as others have mentioned over the years, including @Vee in this thread, Sonny has never faced anything like that before. Laura has been in jail. Michael too. It would give Mo something to play that isn’t tied to having a mental breakdown, which jeopardizes his actual real life mental health every time they do it.

Yeah. Remember the days when a soap character would do something, get punished, and we were allowed a break cuz they were dealing with their comeuppance before they became the underdog again? Good times. 

 

And both are organic to the story...a BONUS. And yes, I recall that there was a discussion over what to do with Sonny that would be something different. Very much agree. It would be different. And goodness he's overdue given the last different thing for him was Nixon Falls. 

And while it's on my mind and *NeneLeakes*let me say this, Greg*NeneLeakes*

Okay, a few weeks ago...I remember there was some discussion on the coven of Kristina/Alexis/Ava and Ric and how the writers were not using that development for much. I mean...how can they? They have to hold Ric for a month in order for Ava to get her money back. 

 

I don't feel like the story has vanished...unlike some other storylines on the show *cough*GioEmmaProfessorLucasMarcoSidwellTrinaKaiDarkWillow*cough* We even got one of the oldest soap tropes out there...the near-miss! Ric almost escaped. And he got a phone call out to Liz and Molly. And I love the cameo of Alexis's dagger on her. 

 

I felt before the near-escape that they used Alexis, Ava, and Kristina pretty well. Well Alexis and Ava at least. lol. I wish the vibe was more like the time AMC did this story with Erica/Janet/Skye and Dr. Kinder, but it has not been bad, either, to me. I could go for more bonding.

 

While I wish that Alexis and Ava were not off in a side story, it is a side story that I admit that I am enjoying and curious for where they will go in the climax. Thankfully, it does not appear that it will end in Ric's death, but Ric will definitely want revenge. And also I am looking forward to Molly and Liz (especially Liz's)'s reactions.

1 hour ago, Taoboi said:

Okay, a few weeks ago...I remember there was some discussion on the coven of Kristina/Alexis/Ava and Ric and how the writers were not using that development for much. I mean...how can they? They have to hold Ric for a month in order for Ava to get her money back. 

 

If they are going to rip off one of my favorite films, 9to5, then rip it all the way off. The chains, the dog collar, and multiple attempts to escape that involved all three women. The cat and mouse aspect was missing. They could have taken those elements and made it their own. Like Mr. Hart, there could have been an implied bathroom and enough length that he could get to it without showing it, just to appease all the people asking where he went to the bathroom. Instead, like all their non essential stories, we only see anything from this one when something needs to happen. But not the in-between.

Edited October 25Oct 25 by titan1978

34 minutes ago, titan1978 said:

If they are going to rip off one of my favorite films, 9to5, then rip it all the way off. The chains, the dog collar, and multiple attempts to escape that involved all three women. The cat and mouse aspect was missing. They could have taken those elements and made it their own. Like Mr. Hart, there could have been an implied bathroom and enough length that he could get to it without showing it, just to appease all the people asking where he went to the bathroom. Instead, like all their non essential stories, we only see anything from this one when something needs to happen. But not the in-between.

Fair.

3 hours ago, Taoboi said:

I disagree. If Jason's return flopped it was because of the BTG antics rather than what was on screen.

The angle with his sons was interesting but barely made it onscreen. What did make it onscreen was a lot of very faint dancing around LW's Carly (who Frank and Korte had tried before, and who they quickly realized again Steve has no chemistry with) and mostly just Jason puttering around that warehouse. That was it, there was nothing going on, and that's why it flopped. Followed by teasing him and Anna/Sasha after PM's exit/firing, which also flopped. That's why they broke the emergency glass and rehired KT.

Edited October 25Oct 25 by Vee

2 hours ago, titan1978 said:

It serves that purpose, and also gives you time to see a bond develop so that the betrayal down the road means more. Plus as others have mentioned over the years, including @Vee in this thread, Sonny has never faced anything like that before. Laura has been in jail. Michael too. It would give Mo something to play that isn’t tied to having a mental breakdown, which jeopardizes his actual real life mental health every time they do it.

I do love your story. For my own ideas though (which would now begin with Scorpio having left his co-workers a very detailed series of protocols on Sonny and how to break him, also involving certain crimes or more recent issues they can no longer ignore), I would just have Sonny on the street and destitute/presumed dead for awhile after certain events with the mob come to a head, and maybe literally give Mo 4-6 months off. Or block tape a handful of appearances. One would hope his mental health could handle the break from work.

Either way, it would of course coincide with Brenda/VM. But I wouldn't write them out. Like I said, losing Mo would mean GH taking a crucial hit for better or worse and Vanessa can move audience. So they would reunite in a relatively swift timeframe once Sonny is properly broken and humbled, marry and that would become their new status quo. He would begin making classical Victor Newman moves in a white-collar way and take second seat to her stories. And in under two years (18 months or a year if you really want to stretch) all that can be settled and done.

Whether Maurice could handle playing such a sea change without freaking out, or having a break from his very regular life schedule, remains to be seen. But it would ultimately keep him around and also allow him a lighter load.

4 minutes ago, Vee said:

The angle with his sons was interesting but barely made it onscreen. What did make it onscreen was a lot of very faint dancing around LW's Carly (who Frank and Korte had tried before, and who they quickly realized again Steve has no chemistry with) and mostly just Jason puttering around that warehouse. That was it, there was nothing going on, and that's why it flopped. Followed by teasing him and Anna after PM's exit/firing, which also flopped. That's why they broke the emergency glass and rehired KT.

The great Mulcahey unraveling was so wild. They scrap the plans for Jason’s return and fire the writers. They hire someone who is no pushover as co-hw. Even though Burton’s first month back was not their work, Mulcahey’s fingerprints were all over Dante’s shooting as far as the tone and scripts went. And IIRC they did get a ratings bump for the return. Then all the Pikeman teasing and how it was going to also resolve Austin’s death. Then months of spinning wheels. And even though PM was gone way before he stopped being credited, they kept up the longer scenes for a bit until Frank could get them back where he wanted them.

Danny and Rocco are noticeably without a real story. To this day I think the only reason we had such an investment in Elizabeth’s boys was because it was to give Howarth’s Franco something to do, and Joss a boyfriend. Now they don’t need any of them because why would they be there to generate story for their mother?

3 minutes ago, Vee said:

The angle with his sons was interesting but barely made it onscreen. What did make it onscreen was a lot of very faint dancing around LW's Carly (who Frank and Korte had tried before, and who they quickly realized again Steve has no chemistry with) and mostly just Jason puttering around that warehouse. That was it, there was nothing going on, and that's why it flopped. Followed by teasing him and Anna after PM's exit/firing, which also flopped. That's why they broke the emergency glass and rehired KT.

But enough onscreen for me to feel invested. But again, part of that for me was the fact that we on the board have been picking on Jason and his parenting skills for years. So to see it finally start to be addressed...got a 'yes, finally!' for me. Yeah, the warehouse was unusual, but I could see the interest in that...a legal front? For Jason? Wow. But that comes back to the job offer from Brennan cuz the warehouse gave him a perfect cover and gave the audience Action Jason still. Best of both worlds in a way. And we know where I stand on Jason's non-existent love life. So need for that emergency glass...but them BTS antics.

 

Even through all that, SB looked surprisingly engaged like I mentioned for the first time in years. At least to me. And that carried me with his stories. Even involved being blackmailed over Carly. Which was so annoying when a simple conversation would have worked. So I guess for me it was not so much a flop as a fumble. But that has to do with what was going on BTS. Cuz it was there...no matter how slight...onscreen.

Double post

Edited October 25Oct 25 by Taoboi