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17 hours ago, BetterForgotten said:

Loving Haley today. 

I feel like one thing we're missing is an in-depth scene between Haley and Naomi, since they used to be best friends...what a betrayal!

17 hours ago, Maxim said:

I liked her today.

I've always loved Cady, but it really seems that "character" was already there in Vanessa.

I always wish she had been allowed to stay on as Jennifer on DAYS. IMO, she brought a freshness to that role.

16 hours ago, wonderwoman1951 said:

someone correct me if i’m wrong, but beyond martin telling his mother that he’s thinking of run for president, i can’t recall any interaction between martin and his parents.

 

I'm pretty sure we've never seen Martin interact with his dad, Ted.

Edited by 1974mdp

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16 hours ago, wonderwoman1951 said:

vernon is martin’s grandfather — ted is his father. 

It really plays as if that would have been a better choice...to have Martin be the youngest child of Vernon and Anita. He's hardly had any interaction with Nicole and none with Ted. Then, Martin's kids would be Vernon and Anita's grandkids versus GREAT grandkids. But, that ship has sailed. They really need to have some scenes with Martin and his parents.

Edited by 1974mdp

  • Member
6 hours ago, Contessa Donatella said:

I see no point in going back & forth just saying our perceptions & your edit of my quote distorts what I said. I'd appreciate your not doing that kind of misquoting,  if you don't mind. What you have here makes  it sound like "no matter what" when instead it should say "if nothing changes" which  is quite different. to me it is logical to think that she was possibly 14. If she was 23 why did she need to be welcomed into anyone's home.

 

@Contessa Donatella  It took me a minute to find the original mentions because it goes back less than a day, but eleven pages because of the huge amount of posts on this thread.

I apologize for how I was quoting only a few words of your post instead of the entire paragraph. I now see how that inadvertently misportrayed your intent.

In order to shorten things, I have been recently begun trying (as a general practice) to quote only a few words from posters just to reference their original post. 
But in this case, the snippet I chose distorted your entire meaning, which wasn't my intention.

[I had requoted the entire original conversation here, but just edited it out because unnecessary.]
 
---------------------------------------------------


Okay now....  in reply to Donna's NEW Post ...

  • ContessaDonatella said (new post Tuesday March 18)
    "to me it is logical to think that she was possibly 14. If she was 23 why did she need to be welcomed into anyone's home."


My reply:

We don't know how old Hayley was when she met Bill and Dani. 
So there could be any number of reasonable theories. 

I think what's confusing is the character dialogue about "we welcomed you into".

A viewer might have interpreted that as welcoming Hayley to move into/live in Dani's house, and that she actually lived there.
That's one reasonable interpretation, based on the little that we know.
Personally, I didn't interpret it that way, but that's just me.

My personal interpretation of the dialogue was that "Dani welcomed Hayley into their lives and hearts", and that Dani welcomed Hayley as Naomi's friend; and then Dani became an older friend to Hayley as well, perhaps they had Hayley as a frequent family dinner guest.  Kind of like any family friend who is often hanging out. And eventually Dani recommended that Bill hire Hayley at the law office.

Where it gets confusing (to me) is that the Dupree dialogue often said that Bill and Hayley had their sexual affair inside Dani&Bill's house/bed. 
Dani said that Bill's multiple sexual encounters with other women happened elsewhere, but Bill's sex with Hayley happened in Dani's home.

So yeah we don't know these things:

  • Did Bill sneak Hayley into his&Dani's house for sex?  Or was Hayley already living there?
  • How old was Hayley when she first met Bill&Dani?
  • If (and only if) she moved into Dani's house, how old was Hayley when she moved in?

Obviously viewers can have differing interpretations of this and, of course that's okay.
The information given so far, is limited.
And our interpretations might change as more becomes revealed.

Edited by janea4old

46 minutes ago, AmandainNC28655 said:

Yesterday's episode was interesting. The Dani/Hayley showdown was blah to me.  We got to see some grit come out in Hayley, but I wish she would unleash more.  I am wondering if we are ever going to have a Hayley/Naomi showdown, since they were best friends at one point. 

Andre/Ashley- Loved this and even though she says she loves Derek, I do think that Ashley is starting have feelings (or maybe they are coming back) for Andre.  I wish they would show us the past between the 2 of them through flashbacks.  Could they have been together before and Derek left Ashley to go on his jaunt around the world, breaking her heart. Is that why she is afraid to admit her feelings again, for fear of getting hurt. 

I am wondering if they are going to turn Derek CRAY CRAY.. Elements are there and it may make the character and actor come out of their shell more (which I did see some of yesterday). 

Cady McClain... LOVE Her as Pamela yesterday.  I hope we see more of her and learn more about the character and her backstory. I would LOVE to see her have her own storyline as well.  Is Cady on contract or recurring?? 

Ted/Nicole/Eva- Enjoyed this yesterday. Ted trying to keep Nicole from finding Leslie/Dana.  My fear is that Eva is going to start bonding with Ted and Nicole and end up being deeply hurt when the reveal comes out that Ted is NOT her biological father. 

Martin and Smitty- It's obvious Smitty is the more involved parent.  I am still on the fence regarding Clayborn in the role of Martin, but I am willing to give him more time. 

Why do I feel that we may be setting up a Kat/Tomas/Eva triangle.  I would love to learn more about Tomas and his background. 

Dani and Andre- Why do I feel that Andre is going to end up being devastated by Dani in the end??  

I don't know if it's just me or if something is there, but your posts read to me like sing-song chanting & as I read them there is a distinct rhythm to your words.

Now, totally & gratefully agree about Cady McClain who I believe is on recurring.

Jumping way down to my girl Dani & her sometime lover Andre, who we more than a little bit suspect of being "sensitive" he may not get his heart broken but Dani, who has been called a force of nature & also a tornado & we know darn well that she is possibly the ultimate drama queen, and one more thing not just a star but a meteor. From all of that what I was thinking is that Andre may get burned from exposure to all that energy.  I mean, it's a lot.

 

  • Member

Monday/Episode 16 had the most cringy moments of any episode so far. 

Terrible dialogue by Davis. Hard to assess Dunn's outline because the story turns were uninspired but his scene breakdowns didn't work either.

Mostly terrible acting by all except Daphne/Nicole and Sean/Andre. What the hell was Cady doing with her mannered voice.  So obvious and put on...Marquita's Haley needs more actor coaching; her performance was rough.

But worst of all: Everything Dani and the Smitty family living room scenes. Both show the rookie head writer mistakes in full view.

In this episode Dani is really slap stick and stupid on top of the dumb premise that the security guard would let her in. Unless they're planning to write a DID story, the character is all over the place and her actions just don't make sense or further a compelling story.

I couldn't with the Smitty family scenes. Even masterful director Phideau couldn't make it work; in fact, his staging made it worse. I felt like I was watching a bad episode of Dr. Phil who had the family sitting around in group therapy. 

And why are we sitting through a Nicole/Andre heart to heart. Isn't she busy. Isn't Martin her son? Have they had one scene together, just the two of them?

All in all C-

Edited by VelekaCarruthers

  • Member
17 minutes ago, Vee said:

Okay, there is no need to repost any of that.

agreed. I just removed the unnecessary repetition from my post above,  although meanwhile it was quoted below which is fine.

Edited by janea4old

25 minutes ago, janea4old said:

 

@Contessa Donatella  It took me a minute to find the original mentions because it goes back less than a day, but eleven pages because of the huge amount of posts on this thread.

I apologize for how I was quoting only a few words of your post instead of the entire paragraph. I now see how that inadvertently misportrayed your intent.

In order to shorten things, I have been recently begun trying (as a general practice) to quote only a few words from posters just to reference their original post. 
But in this case, the snippet I chose distorted your entire meaning, which wasn't my intention.

I'll post the entire sequence of conversations here, which were Monday morning USA timezones March 17, on pages 169-170 of this thread.
There are too many quotes and I'd likely mess it up technologically by trying to quote a bunch of people, so I'll just post via text format instead of quote format:
(Some of this was on page 169 and some on page 170, so at one point when jane references the "previous page", it just refers to the first part of this same conversation.)

--------------------------------------------------------

[A poster asked: "Who do you think is the hotness of BtG?" ]

[A bunch of replies from various posters rating the hotness of male characters. Some included Bill on their lists.]

-------------

ContessaDonatella said: 
I can't believe people are listing Bill!!!! His personality & his actions make him totally UNattractive if you ask me. What he does & has done make him so ugly to me.

-------------

a poster said: 
Call me Dani because the more evil he gets, the sexier!

-------------

ContessaDonatella said: 
EWWWWW. ICK. ARGH. He was an adult when Hayley, a child, was growing up in that extended household. What does that make him? I think we all know. 

-------------

jana4old said:

We know Bill and Dani took in Hayley as she had no family, but has it been stated in dialogue that she was a child or teen when they took her in?  If so, then yeah, that's very icky.
But they could have taken her in as an adult in her early twenties, new to town getting her bearings, with no family.  I don't think it's been stated specifically.  Just that she and Naomi were friends.

Did Hayley ever live with Dani and Bill? I believe this was stated:  Dani had suggested that Bill hire Hayley for the law office.  Dani said that Hayley had been in their bed, but I don't know if Bill brought her home or if she was already living there.

Did they "take her in" literally, to live in their home? 
Or did they "take her in" only metaphorically --
as in "we took you into our lives/hearts" ... with her living elsewhere but coming over to dinner and hanging out with Naomi, and the Hamiltons professionally mentoring her, being supportive, etc.?  With Naomi being a peer friend and Dani being an older friend?

These are good questions.  I missed some of the nuances on first watch.

-------------

Vee said:
There is no evidence Bill and Dani raised Hayley or knew her as a child.

-------------

Maxim said:

I've never heard a thing like... She was a child when she was taken in... Or that she grew up in that household. Absolutely never heard a thing like this.

And I'm watching very carefully. 

-------------

Maxim made a new post to add onto that thought:

I want to add couple of things to this.

We know that:

Hayley befriended the family and Naomi was her best friend. 

We know that she became Bill's assistant... And Dani actually encouraged this. 

That's when the real issue began. They "fell in love".

The strange and bizarre claim that he took advantage of someone who was raised in that family or underaged... Not full grown woman... To me... At this point... Is absurd. Yes... she is a young woman, but she is not a child or underaged. 

If that had happened that way...  we would have heard Dani accuse Bill of being a sicko like one million times by now. And we would have commented 10029290 million times about that. Because that would have really been sick.

Let's not twist reality into these dangerous assumptions. We have no reason to believe Bill was a child molester. None of us would find him attractive if that was the case!!! I take offense to anyone thinking I will ever find an actual monster like that... Sexy. 

Bill is a lot of things... But what is being said right now... Is not the reality.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is the FULL post of what @Contessa Donatella said next:

ContessaDonatella said:
Until further notice changes things, I will continue to think this about Bill, and I know others who think this also & people making strange & absurd accusations about this, my stated opinion, better knock it the hell off. It is news to me that some of you don't think this. I must admit that I am more than a little offended. And, so this is where we leave it.

-------------

Then janea4old quoted only a snippet, just a few words
of ContessaDonatella's full paragraph post, 
by quoting only these words
"I will continue to think this about Bill,"


janea4old should have either quoted the entire paragraph, or at least more of the full thought
ContessaDonatella said:
"Until further notice changes things, I will continue to think this about Bill, and I know others who think this also "


Then, in reply to that truncated snippet, janea4old said:

Honestly I don't think it's been stated in the dialogue how old Hayley was when Bill and Dani met her.

I gave details on my perceptions of the situation in my post on the previous page. (but of course they are only my perceptions and not proven truths).  I tried to be openminded and look at various ways it could be perceived.

--------------------------

In reply to janea4old saying "Honestly I don't think it's been stated in the dialogue how old Hayley was when Bill and Dani met her."

Vee replied: "It hasn't."

--------------------------

---------------------------------------------------

END OF QUOTE SEQUENCE.

okay I hope this makes it clearer what Donna originally said and its context.
I confused things by quoting only snippet "I will continue to think this" ...
which might have erroneously implied that she'll always think this no matter what.
She *ACTUALLY* said: "Until further notice changes things, I will continue to think this"
and she noted that she knew of others who think this also.
I apologize for any confusion by quoting without full context.

---------------------------------------------------


Okay now....  in reply to Donna's NEW Post ...

 

  • ContessaDonatella said (new post Tuesday March 18)
    "to me it is logical to think that she was possibly 14. If she was 23 why did she need to be welcomed into anyone's home."


My reply:

We don't know how old Hayley was when she met Bill and Dani. 
So there could be any number of reasonable theories. 

I think what's confusing is the character dialogue about "we welcomed you into".

A viewer might have interpreted that as welcoming Hayley to move into/live in Dani's house, and that she actually lived there.
That's one reasonable interpretation, based on the little that we know.
Personally, I didn't interpret it that way, but that's just me.

My personal interpretation of the dialogue was that "Dani welcomed Hayley into their lives and hearts", and that Dani welcomed Hayley as Naomi's friend; and then Dani became an older friend to Hayley as well, perhaps they had Hayley as a frequent family dinner guest.  Kind of like any family friend who is often hanging out. And eventually Dani recommended that Bill hire Hayley at the law office.

Where it gets confusing (to me) is that the Dupree dialogue often said that Bill and Hayley had their sexual affair inside Dani&Bill's house/bed. 
Dani said that Bill's multiple sexual encounters with other women happened elsewhere, but Bill's sex with Hayley happened in Dani's home.

So yeah we don't know these things:

  • Did Bill sneak Hayley into his&Dani's house for sex?  Or was Hayley already living there?
  • How old was Hayley when she first met Bill&Dani?
  • If (and only if) she moved into Dani's house, how old was Hayley when she moved in?

Obviously viewers can have differing interpretations of this and, of course that's okay.
The information given so far, is limited.
And our interpretations might change as more becomes revealed.

Jane, first of all, I knew you meant no harm. 

Now, sometimes you make these amazing, remarkable, absolutely dazzling posts. Other times you make just regular ones. On rare occasions you like any of us screw up. It pleases me no end to tell you that this has been the former, one of those posts that dazzle us! You go, girl! 

  • Member
1 hour ago, VelekaCarruthers said:

Dani is really slap stick and stupid on top of the dumb premise that the security guard would let her in. Unless they're planning to write a DID story, the character is all over the place and her actions just don't make sense or further a compelling story.

It has been said that the first few months of BTG are from MJV's bible and so basically her ideas.  If there's a DID thing coming, then it was MVJ's idea. But if this happens, I dread to see Carlivati's breakdowns.  He delights in those storylines and he's terrible at it.

I don't think DID is as common as soaps use it for plot devices. I'd prefer to see the writing state simply that Dani has a complex mental/emotional issue that she will get therapy for.  Perhaps she's bipolar, but maybe there isn't a specific diagnosis.

  • Member

I do think Friday and a lot of the break-in stuff is large part on Carlivati's breakdown. The break-in itself is one thing to do as a story point, but this whole business with Dani joking about a bomb, sweet-talking the security guard, killing the cameras and then monologuing to the wine bottle, while fun up to a point, was cartoonish and silly. KM does very well with all of it IMO but it's just a bit too broad too quickly for me. Like, all this at once?

Cady's Pamela and Vanessa are clearly a riff on the same character and I do think people are right that Cady is a late addition. Vanessa fits better with both sisters, but I do like Cady in this comic aristocrat role (which I think suits her modern style) and I do think she can do well on the show either in a slightly adjusted role to Dani/Nicole or with someone else. They're clearly working many kinks out in real time, which is typical of a new show (including various bad actors and the entire miserable expanse that is the Andre/Ashley/Derek storyline).

Like others I do think Dani's mania is a setup for a story about her major issues psychologically, with alcohol or both, but they need more moderation. And I'd much rather see her being a terror back on the job, like with Chelsea. KM also excels at that business stuff so far, what little we've seen of it. Or let her and Pamela cook on something.

Edited by Vee

  • Member

Didn’t the original character description we got for Dani say she had some sort of cocaine  addiction? I wonder if that was taken out but other elements of the character remained without that.

  • Member

Derek: All your loving, all your caring, pour it all on me. Every drop. 😬😬😬

The bit with the extremely awkward and clumsy bit with Andre trying to lunge at Ashley right at the hospital hub was also quite badly done and written before and after on both days. Please end this ASAP.

Edited by Vee

  • Member

Well RC has a style that is very easy to see when you know his stuff. I simply hoped that the dialogue person could save it, but Friday was a poor attempt. Fingers crossed when he comes back around in rotation, that was just a one-off. 

  • Member

Yeah, MG can't sell the aggression in this confrontation with Dani. Karla could've blown her off the screen if she hadn't kept the flame low. Nice girl but this is why I said go get Loren Lott for Hayley.

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