2 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

The first risk taken was Hill St Blues and that was a game changer.

I'm glad you brought this up, @Paul Raven.  For all that went wrong during Fred Silverman's tenure at NBC, he never gets credit for commissioning "Hill Street Blues," a critical success that, along with "The Cosby Show," would help to revive the network's fortunes in years to come.  (And I say that as someone who admires his successor, Grant Tinker).

But, yeah, my idea for a darker, edgier "Supertrain" never would have gotten off the ground in the era of "Pink Lady and Jeff," lol.

Edited June 10, 20241 yr by Khan

I think Fred took a lot of risks, but most just didn't pay off or were dragged down by the general reputation of the network. There are a few I wish I could see, like that "whatever happened to the class of '56" show, or whatever the title was. Others like trying to make Number 96 for an American market were never going to work on network TV.

Edited June 10, 20241 yr by DRW50

Whatever Happened to the Class of 65 was pre Silverman.

When he arrived NBC had committed to mini series, TV movies and specials as their strategy which he disagreed with. But there was a lot of stuff already commissioned that had to air.

In addition NBC had ties to Universal and relied on them for most of their programming which left little room for other suppliers and producers were wary of NBC due to that, believing Universal pilots would get first preference.

Universal wasn't strong on comedies, which Silverman believed was the formula for winning.

He misstepped by announcing he would be going for quality and brought in Lifeline the medical documentary that was ahead of it's time. It bombed and then we saw BJ & The Bear, Kate Loves  A Mystery etc which tarnished his rep.

It certainly was an interesting time for fans of network scheduling/commissioning eg me.

13 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

Whatever Happened to the Class of 65 was pre Silverman.

When he arrived NBC had committed to mini series, TV movies and specials as their strategy which he disagreed with. But there was a lot of stuff already commissioned that had to air.

In addition NBC had ties to Universal and relied on them for most of their programming which left little room for other suppliers and producers were wary of NBC due to that, believing Universal pilots would get first preference.

Universal wasn't strong on comedies, which Silverman believed was the formula for winning.

He misstepped by announcing he would be going for quality and brought in Lifeline the medical documentary that was ahead of it's time. It bombed and then we saw BJ & The Bear, Kate Loves  A Mystery etc which tarnished his rep.

It certainly was an interesting time for fans of network scheduling/commissioning eg me.

Thanks. I didn't know that.

He did have some odd sitcoms, like the disco marital sitcom by Bob Hope's daughter. 

That whole period seems much more interesting to me than most of what was on CBS or ABC. If there was a streaming channel that showed all of their lineup I'd check it out.

I just think he was overwhelmed and too ambitious in thinking he could achieve instant success.

He managed to turn Wednesday around with Real People/Diffr'nt Strokes but couldn't find another sitcom to pair with it or a successful 10 o'clock show, having to rely on Hello Larry and Best of SNL.

Otherwise it was pretty bleak throughout his run.

Things like The Big Show and United States had potential but no real place to put them in the schedule. Maybe Big Show (awful title) should have been an hour and placed at 10 pm.

United States was just not suitable for NBC primetime at that point. They needed a more mainstream, adult type comedy a la MASH or Barney Miller.

"Lipstick Jungle" on NBC was the obvious broadcast TV answer to HBO's "Sex and The City". And "Lipstick Jungle", if I recall, was the title of a book by Candace Bushnell...who was the one to write about "Sex and The City" before it became a TV series. (I believe Carrie Bradshaw was the Candace Bushnell surrogate in the TV show. Even the same initials.)

Full circle, as it were.

Edited June 10, 20241 yr by Wendy

52 minutes ago, Wendy said:

"Lipstick Jungle" on ABC was the obvious broadcast TV answer to HBO's "Sex and The City". And "Lipstick Jungle", if I recall, was the title of a book by Candace Bushnell...who was the one to write about "Sex and The City" before it became a TV series. (I believe Carrie Bradshaw was the Candace Bushnell surrogate in the TV show. Even the same initials.)

Full circle, as it were.

Wasn't there another knockoff on around this time?

24 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

Wasn't there another knockoff on around this time?

I knew there was another one besides "Lipstick Jungle" but could not remember the title!

So I did a Google search and...voila! The show, "Cashmere Mafia", debuted the same year as "Lipstick Jungle"! It was actually "Cashmere Mafia" that was on ABC per Google. "Lipstick Jungle" was on NBC. My bad.

While this was not a clone of SATC, I also recall the short-lived series, "Eastwick", based on "The Witches of Eastwick", that involved three women who were enthralled by a debonair guy who just happened to be the devil. (In the movie, he was played by Jack Nicholson! On the short-lived ABC series, Paul Gross of "Due South" fame played the role! Jaime Ray Newman, ex-Kristina Sr., GH, played one of those three women.)

Will edit my other post, just for completeness' sake!

Cashmere Mafia was ABC's version. It preceded Lipstick Jungle which actually was an NBC show.

13 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

Cashmere Mafia was ABC's version. It preceded Lipstick Jungle which actually was an NBC show.

Yep. As I said, I mixed up the networks. And edited my original post.

45 minutes ago, Wendy said:

I knew there was another one besides "Lipstick Jungle" but could not remember the title!

So I did a Google search and...voila! The show, "Cashmere Mafia", debuted the same year as "Lipstick Jungle"! It was actually "Cashmere Mafia" that was on ABC per Google. "Lipstick Jungle" was on NBC. My bad.

While this was not a clone of SATC, I also recall the short-lived series, "Eastwick", based on "The Witches of Eastwick", that involved three women who were enthralled by a debonair guy who just happened to be the devil. (In the movie, he was played by Jack Nicholson! On the short-lived ABC series, Paul Gross of "Due South" fame played the role! Jaime Ray Newman, ex-Kristina Sr., GH, played one of those three women.)

Will edit my other post, just for completeness' sake!

Thanks. Glad I wasn't crazy. I remember thinking at the time these shows were already a number of years out of date. 

Tina Fey made fun of this genre when she made her debut as an SNL host.

 

I'd forgotten Supertrain was the immortal Dan Curtis, who always bet big and walked away whether he had a hit or a giant flop. Of course. Insane that Robert Cobert did that (incredibly catchy) deranged first theme song. I'll be shocked if Dan didn't find a way to get Roger Davis, John Karlen or Nancy Barrett on the show somewhere.

2 hours ago, Vee said:

Insane that Robert Cobert did that (incredibly catchy) deranged first theme song.

IKR?  It's so...Village People, lol.  And the second theme song is like something you'd hear on a PBS kids show from the same period.

10 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

Whatever Happened to the Class of 65 was pre Silverman.

When he arrived NBC had committed to mini series, TV movies and specials as their strategy which he disagreed with. But there was a lot of stuff already commissioned that had to air.

In addition NBC had ties to Universal and relied on them for most of their programming which left little room for other suppliers and producers were wary of NBC due to that, believing Universal pilots would get first preference.

Universal wasn't strong on comedies, which Silverman believed was the formula for winning.

He misstepped by announcing he would be going for quality and brought in Lifeline the medical documentary that was ahead of it's time. It bombed and then we saw BJ & The Bear, Kate Loves  A Mystery etc which tarnished his rep.

It certainly was an interesting time for fans of network scheduling/commissioning eg me.

 

9 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

I just think he was overwhelmed and too ambitious in thinking he could achieve instant success.

He managed to turn Wednesday around with Real People/Diffr'nt Strokes but couldn't find another sitcom to pair with it or a successful 10 o'clock show, having to rely on Hello Larry and Best of SNL.

Otherwise it was pretty bleak throughout his run.

Things like The Big Show and United States had potential but no real place to put them in the schedule. Maybe Big Show (awful title) should have been an hour and placed at 10 pm.

United States was just not suitable for NBC primetime at that point. They needed a more mainstream, adult type comedy a la MASH or Barney Miller.

Thanks for all this information and analysis, @Paul Raven.  It really helps put the Silverman era at NBC in a different perspective for me.

Come to think of it, I can't think of too many Universal-produced comedies.  I think "Kate & Allie" and "Gimme a Break!" come closest, but MCA-TV was just the distributor/syndicator.

The box office success of Animal house in 1978 saw all 3 networks attempt their own version in the same season and within weeks of each other.

That must be a record.

First on the air was ABC's Delta House which aired Sat @ 8. It was the official spinoff, with a few of the movie cast members recreating their roles. It began Jan 18 1980.

Next up NBC debuted Brothers and Sisters  following Diff'rent Strokes Fri @8.30 that a week later.

Last to the party was CBS with Co-Ed Fever which was slotted Mon @8. However, after a preview on Sun Feb 4 follow the premiere of Rocky, CBS dropped the series and it never aired.

So all 3 bombed. One obvious  problem of course was that the popularity of  Animal House was due to vulgar, gross out humor and the sanitized TV versions couldn't come close, thus making the whole thing a wasted effort.

19 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

One obvious problem of course was that the popularity of Animal House was due to vulgar, gross out humor and the sanitized TV versions couldn't come close, thus making the whole thing a wasted effort.

I agree.

I'm not sure whether this has been mentioned yet, but the success of "The Cosby Show" spurred CBS onto making their own, African-American family sitcom, "Charlie & Co.," starring Flip Wilson, Gladys Knight, Kristoff St. John (ex-Adam, GEN; ex-Neil, Y&R) and the Once and Future Urkel, Jaleel White. 

The family on "Charlie" appeared to be more middle-class than the affluent Huxtables.  Nevertheless, you could see the parallels between the two shows.

Ironically, "Cosby"'s success also inspired Ron Leavitt and Michael G. Moye to create "Married...with Children" (or "Not the Cosbys," as the show was called originally).  But here's my question: would y'all argue that MWC, in a sense, provided the foundation for what would become "Roseanne," which was itself a response to "Cosby"'s affluent take on the American family?

Edited June 11, 20241 yr by Khan