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The end of Alice, with Linda Lavin blaming the show's end on timeslot changes (love you, Linda, but that show was lucky to last as long as it did).

Alice.png

Edited by DRW50

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14 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

The end of Alice, with Linda Lavin blaming the show's end on timeslot changes (love you, Linda, but that show was lucky to last as long as it did).

Alice.png

The show was old, and it lost its luster after Belle left. Jolene wasn't funny, in my opinion..

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Just now, Soapsuds said:

The show was old, and it lost its luster after Belle left. Jolene wasn't funny, in my opinion..

I'd say "Alice" lost its luster BEFORE Belle left.  Spinning Flo off was just the wrong thing to do (although, given how jealous Linda Lavin was of Polly Holliday's success on the show, the producers probably had no other choice).

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1 minute ago, Khan said:

I'd say "Alice" lost its luster BEFORE Belle left.  Spinning Flo off was just the wrong thing to do (although, given how jealous Linda Lavin was of Polly Holliday's success on the show, the producers probably had no other choice).

Didn't Diane Ladd leave for the same reason?

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2 minutes ago, Soapsuds said:

Didn't Diane Ladd leave for the same reason?

Yep.  She couldn't stand working with Linda Lavin either.  That's why Celia Weston lasted as long as she did, I think.  Jolene wasn't nearly as flashy as Flo or Belle, and Weston herself posed no threat to Lavin's supremacy on the set.

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27 minutes ago, Khan said:

I'd say "Alice" lost its luster BEFORE Belle left.  Spinning Flo off was just the wrong thing to do (although, given how jealous Linda Lavin was of Polly Holliday's success on the show, the producers probably had no other choice).

I think even by the time Polly left, Flo wasn't quite the same - there was only so many times they could have the catchphrases, and the grit that made the first season or two stand out more was gone. Diane was hobbled with a bad catchphrase, a messy character, and the show being out of steam. I think bringing Jolene in and marrying Vera were good ideas, but the show still was lucky to run that long. 

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1983/84 to 1985/86 CBS pretty much tank jobbed almost all their 1970s holdovers: One Day at a Time, The Jeffersons, Alice; Trapper John, M.D.. For whatever reason CBS didn't tank job The Dukes of Hazzard after that show's ratings dropped off in 1982/83.

Edited by kalbir

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6 hours ago, kalbir said:

1983/84 to 1985/86 CBS pretty much tank jobbed almost all their 1970s holdovers: One Day at a Time, The Jeffersons, Alice; Trapper John, M.D.. For whatever reason CBS didn't tank job The Dukes of Hazzard after that show's ratings dropped off in 1982/83.

All of those shows had well and truly had their day by the time they were axed.

CBS just didn't develop a new set of shows. They tried a couple of times to bring in a new comedy  to the Sunday lineup eg Gloria and Stockard Channing but they didn't work.

By the time The Four Seasons and Maggie Briggs were placed on Sunday the schedule was falling apart.

And Trapper John coasted along Sunday @10. CBS never put another show there to try and build a new hit and refresh the lineup. Not even a 6 episode show that could be tested, like the did with Nurse and The Mississippi Fri @10.

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On 11/8/2025 at 5:23 PM, Paul Raven said:

All of those shows had well and truly had their day by the time they were axed.

CBS just didn't develop a new set of shows. They tried a couple of times to bring in a new comedy  to the Sunday lineup eg Gloria and Stockard Channing but they didn't work.

By the time The Four Seasons and Maggie Briggs were placed on Sunday the schedule was falling apart.

And Trapper John coasted along Sunday @10. CBS never put another show there to try and build a new hit and refresh the lineup. Not even a 6 episode show that could be tested, like the did with Nurse and The Mississippi Fri @10.


CBS really should have taken advantage of developing an actual Tuesday night schedule during the 83-84 season. Obviously counter programming the A-Team and Riptide would’ve be a bit tough but it would’ve had to been better that ABC’s dismal Tuesday schedule and whatever TV movies  CBS was airing on Tuesday nights. 

CBS also coasted way on too much of its past successes obviously instead of going original shows and new talent. A show like AfterMASH shouldn’t have existed. 

Why did Dukes of Hazards ratings collapse after the original Duke boys returned lol?

  • 4 weeks later...
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A number of episodes of Kay O'Brien have been uploaded, a show that if it is remembered at all is for bumping Knots Landing from its time slot (and being an early starring role for Patricia Kalember).

Edited by DRW50

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Kay O'Brien debuted in 3rd place in the timeslot up against Hill St Blues and 20/20, 2 well established shows.

Wk 1 86/87 season.

On Thursday, NBC's powerful comedy lineup carried the evening for the network.

For the night, NBC averaged a 26.5/42, while CBS had a 13.2/21 and ABC a 10.7/17.

From 8 to 10, Cosby averaged a 35.5/55, Family Ties a 33.4/51, Cheers a 29.7/45, and the season premiere of Night Court a 26.8/41.

On CBS, Simon & Simon averaged a 11.8 /18 from 8 to 9, and Knots Landing averaged a 14.7/ 22 from 9 to 10.

On ABC, Our World averaged a 6.5/10 from 8 to 9, and The Colbys averaged a 10.5/16 from 9 to 10.

From 10 to 11, CBS's new Kay O'Brien averaged a 13.1/23, while NBC's Hill Street Blues averaged a 16.9/29 and ABC's 20/20 pulled in a 15.1/26.

Edited by Paul Raven

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1986/87 CBS messed up their Thursday line up. Simon & Simon was DOA vs. The Cosby Show. Knots Landing got weakened vs. Cheers.

CBS would move Simon & Simon back to 9 pm and Knots Landing back to 10 pm but the damage was done. Knots Landing got further weakened when NBC moved L.A. Law from Friday 10 pm to Thursday 10 pm. Simon & Simon was effectively over by the end of the season but CBS kept it for another two seasons.

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@DRW50 Thanks for sharing!

The NY Times Review of the show wasn’t kind lol:


PROBABLY the last thing prime-time television needs right now is another hospital-doctors show. Just about every emergency and heartwarming angle to be found on that particular scene is being exploited each week in NBC's ''St. Elsewhere,'' the kind of middlebrow soap opera that wins Emmy Awards (while virtually acing out ABC's ''Moonlighting,'' a far more original and offbeat romp). Nevertheless, CBS is bringing on, tonight at 10, ''Kay O'Brien,'' a series set in a New York hospital where everybody seems to speak in exclamations: ''We need more blood!'' ''C'mon, let's go!'' ''Do it!'' It is the practice of medicine seen as a football game.

But while the surgeon, Dr. Kay O'Brien, called Kayo and played by Patricia Kalember, labors over a hot operating table (''All right, that takes care of the small intestine, but I still don't know what to do about this colon''), she is intended to embody some of the more pressing feminist issues of the day. The key points are constantly being spelled out. Perhaps Dr. Moffitt (Lane Smith), one of the good guys, puts it best: ''There are 75 surgeons here. You gotta be better than any of them. It ain't right. It ain't fair. But that's the way it is.''

And, by golly, she is better than anybody else, even when sabotaged by the nasty Dr. Doyle (Brian Benben), who is determined to ruin Kayo's professional reputation and to keep all women out of surgery's top ranks. Fortunately, Dr. Doyle is so despicable that the rest of the hospital keeps rooting for Kayo. Meanwhile, however, after returning home from one of her 36-hour shifts, Dr. O'Brien discovers that her live-in boyfriend, Sam (Franc Luz), has taken the Mister Coffee and left her a note complaining that she simply didn't have any time for ''a relationship.''

Dr. O'Brien is upset. As she confides to her friend Rosa Villanueva (Priscilla Lopez), the head nurse in surgery, Kayo is 28 years old and not beyond feeling lonely. But, she adds, in another one of those getting-the-point lines: ''A man can have a career and a relationship - is it too much to ask for a woman?'' Back at the hospital, before the end of this first hour - directed by Richard Michaels, written by Bryce Zable and Brad Markowitz - Kayo turns the tables on Dr. Doyle, charms a young boy patient with magic tricks and gets a visit from her boyfriend, who has now decided that he would like to move back in.

But by this point, our hero - quoting her father to the effect that the only thing worse than fighting is being afraid to fight - is ready to walk off into the future proud and independent. The only thing that can stop her now are the ratings and scripts that aren't considerably more inspired than this one.

Ouch.

Obviously the initial lineup was an exercise in counter programming and it backfiring/tank jobs. The December 86 correction was even stranger but at least Knots was back in its usual timeslot.

I wonder where else on the schedule this show could have aired on the schedule. It feels much more fitting like it could have been paired with something like Cagney & Lacey but that would’ve messed up the Monday night schedule.

Perhaps just aired on Saturday nights? Couldn’t have hurt CBS already tumultuous Sat night lineup during the mid-late 80’s.

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4 minutes ago, soapfan770 said:

Obviously the initial lineup was an exercise in counter programming and it backfiring/tank jobs. The December 86 correction was even stranger but at least Knots was back in its usual timeslot.

CBS thought Knots Landing at Thursday 9 pm could finish off The Colbys but that backfired because Cheers weakened Knots Landing. I don't think CBS was trying to tank job Simon & Simon.

NBC tank jobbed Hill St. Blues with the move from Thursday 10 pm to Tuesday 9 pm, where Moonlighting finished it off.

L.A. Law first Thursday episode was December 4, 1986 and it was Jeanne Cooper first appearance as Gladys Becker. I see what you did there NBC.

Edited by kalbir

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