HOLIDAY MIRACLE: Prospect Park Back On Track To Revive AMC and OLTL

[teplin]

Actually, I think the soapiest comic story I've ever seen was the romance between the mutant Scarlet Witch and android Vision in Avengers, especially when it evolved into a triangle with Mantis, then into a quadrangle with the Swordsman (actually, I think it was a plant-god that took the Swordsman's corporeal form). That was the work of writers Roy Thomas and Steve Engelhart, some years before Claremont-Byrne's X-Men.

[DRW50]

That was soapy but more in the Marvel soapy tradition, sort of an offshoot of all the old angst in the early Spiderman/FF/Thor/etc. But you're right, it was soapy. I can't say I loved it, as it made little sense, but I did love that Mantis was a huge bitch and Wanda went around essentially saying, for a comic of that era, SHUT THE !@#$%^&*] UP YOU STUPID BITCH.

I sure miss the days when women weren't in comics to be objectified, traumatized, raped and murdered.

[EricMontreal22]

That went as far back as the late 60s didn't it? Marvel was always known for inserting angst and some soap opera elements into their comics (obviously the death of Gwen Stacy in Spiderman around 1971 being a prime example)--something DC took a while to catch on to, but I really don't know a lot about this stuff. Still Claremont's X-Men is, whether it was the first or not, pretty infamous in the industry for being the first really melodramatic, angsty, and long term continuity heavy title (elements which turned off a lot of fans while bringingin a ton of new fans).

[EricMontreal22]

Strangely the, amongst comic book fans, infamous Women in Refrigerators (a reference to one title where one superhero's girlfriend's head was found in a ridge, I believe) list seems to have escalated just when violence to women in soaps became more popular too. http://lby3.com/wir/ (Perry Moore, who recently commited suicide but was a film and TV producer and did the YA gay superhero comic Hero that has long been talked about becoming a cable series, did a similar list fo gay characters http://perrymoorestories.com/content/hero.asp?id=superheroes )

(That said, Carl, while I agree with your last point, I think superhero comics have a history going back to the start of objectifying women--look at those infamously bizarre early Wonder Womans though at least she was shown as strong--mostly. Or the infamous comics where Superman would spank Lois lol, but I agree with the rape and murder thing--something, just like on soaps, the writers justify as being "edgy")

Yes, this is getting off topic--though I have always been amazed at the similarities between American superhero comics and American soap operas (as opposed to non-American comics and soaps). Things like keeping a popular title past its prime, the fact that new writers have to come in to existing stories, the elements of retcon (a term that I believe came from comics), the increasing interference from editors and execs on the writer's vision, all the tropes like "nobody ever really dies" which have increased to a level that nobody ever believes someone has died, as well as amnesia, the way a new writer or editor (ie the Exec Producer) can suddenly change for the better or worse an old title, the fact that an extremely popular writer can return to his flagship title and in the new climate completely suck, trying to adapt to different audiences than what the genre was created for, etc.

(As well as endlessly recycling the same talent between companies and titles...)

[EricMontreal22]

One last thing back to PP. I don't really understand those who feel they should just do a brand new soap. I don't think that makes any sense for a company that really wants to see this be a mainstream (as much as online programming can be mainstream) thing that could lead to more shows. We already have a ton of web soaps--yes the quality vastly vastly varies, but they have tried to involve soap favorite actors and some soap crew elements. And mostly, nobody cares. Certainly the media couldn't give a shite. By making this about AMC and OLTL they automatically have the publicity--and for a start up like this, that means a *ton*.

[DRW50]

Was that the guy who was killed off right after the wedding?

I think Claremont just ran out of ideas, and he would keep trying to start fresh, which I can respect, but eventually you can only do that so many times. I know the whole Outback thing was the last straw for some. For me it was the whole Madeline Pryor evil clone saga - I liked Madeline and didn't care about seeing her sacrificed for more mega-event angst. I have never had any interest in Scott Summers angsting. Frankly, the only time I thought he was interesting was when he was barely clothed or when he has those MY VISOR WHERE IS MY VISOR!!! moments where he has to hold his hands over his eyes.

I actually didn't start reading X-Men until the 90s, but it was back issues. I just never cared about the newer stuff - the artwork, the 500 books. I think that's probably been for the best, in the long run, as that means I didn't have to see Nightcrawler die, I didn't have to see Beast made into a suicidal monster, and other delights.

My favorite Claremont book was the Avengers Annual where Rogue was introduced, even though the horrid art team at that time drew her to look like Selma Diamond from Night Court. Claremont was the only one who seemed to actually know to utilize that Avengers team (one of my favorite lineups, who just never had a real chance), and he tied up the hideous, hideous "Marcus" story for Ms. Marvel that had told readers how romantic it was for a woman to be kidnapped, brainwashed, raped, and forced to bear a rapist's child. The best part of it was that he hand-waved all the tedious crap that had always been used to limit Scarlet Witch's role. Oh, she got knocked out (she regained consciousness relatively quickly and rejoined the battle). Wait, she can't use more than three or four hexes, or...kittens will cry? (Vision asked her to push past her limits, and she did about six or seven hexes). And what do you know, she actually got to kick some serious ass. Imagine that. I really loved it, then and now. Probably almost as much as I love her making Tony Stark humiliate himself in front of large groups of people.

I agree with you about the connections between soaps and comics. I guess the poor attempts at tokenism also blur together.

Anyway, sorry for going off topic.

[SFK]

I agree. AMC and OLTL carry immeasurable cache and interest in comparison to any and every other web soap.

If this soap venture is a success for them, perhaps then, and only then, will they consider launching an original soap to expand their online programming. PP is a young, "hip" sorta production company, I could see them doing something similar to The City in terms of a group of young New Yorkers, maybe this time in some hipster section of Brooklyn. But the tradition and loyal viewership of AMC/OLTL is why they're doing this in the first place. Take AMC/OLTL out of the equation and we wouldn't even be here right now.

[dragonflies]

They should have created a new soap cause they aren't boxed in(so to speak) by the history of these shows that are established. They would be able to take what lliberties they want in that aspect.

[EricMontreal22]

I haven't been following, but to the best of my knowledge Nothstar and Kyle are still happy and alive and married (unless you mean someone else). I'm sure, after the huge deal made about the gay wedding, only some months back, they wouldn't kill one off so quickly without getting a lot of hate--but as we know from soaps, stranger decisions have been made.

Ha I had a pre-teen crush on Scott, but in hindsight I kinda agree (and as others have pointed out, he sorta was an arrogant dick, esecially with many of his relationships...). I'm sure it helped that I used to have a crush on Marsden who played him in the movie.

Yeah, my older bro is the big comic book/X-Men fan in my family so I would read his a bit in the early 90s but quickly would read all his collected back issues, and by some of my own as--just like with soaps, I discovered I was more interested in the older classic stuff- I think I have in various collections all of the 75-90 stuff, including New Mutants, and have read it all--which took almost a decade it seems--but not in a long time so it's a bit of a blur. I agree Claremont burned out--just like even the best soap writers do, it's just hard to keep up a serial that needs work churned out so regularly, for so long and a decade plus is a LONG time. It started getting too convulated for me, and that was also when both Marvel and DC began all their ridiculous huge mega event crossovers which I had zero interest in and weren't Claremont's strong point--Hell I got bored even in the old ones when a fight would last more than a few pages.

Definitely, very much. Though recently they've been slightly better at gay characters and making some of them not even about their sexuality--but like with soaps there was much tepidation from the execs (I think it also was done because--again like with soaps--comic book audiences are dwindling and they realized that there is a HUGE gay fan base).

[DRW50]

They should try a few 15-minute soaps to air as some filler between any AMC or OLTL gaps.

I'll never stop wanting to see 15-minute soaps come back.

[Vee]

This is the last time I'm gonna say this and then I'm gonna let it go for now.

From the start we've had reports on how they operated and it doesn't seem like much has changed since last year - leak a lot of crap to the industry trades, have no actual teams in place, and try to bluff and bluster your way through the rest. Typical L.A. [!@#$%^&*]. They didn't have the money last time but they had a lot of bluster. They got all the actors to go out and talk it up. They made one offer to the WGA, were rejected, and then didn't go back with a counter; instead, they went back to the trades to make more drama, blaming the Guild and Susan [!@#$%^&*] Lucci for daring to have the stones to hold out for a more discriminating deal. It's always someone else's fault with these people, and it's always leaked to the trades instead of dealing with things above-board, upfront, and in a legitimate, professional way. Now we hear they tried to put another hard 'take it or leave it' deal to the WGA a couple days before the holiday and walked away again. I don't hold much truck with Daytime Confidential but they call it "thuggish" and they're right. That was the same way I thought of it. When they burn FV and RC they go on and find the fifth or sixth-stringers down the creative chain. They have no scripts and no bible and they're supposed to be a month out from production.

From the outside, it just seems like these dudes are a bunch of L.A. scenesters who thought they could make some dollar off something they read in the Hollywood Reporter and now won't let it go because they think they can still pay their mortgage off it. They thought they'd have minimal overhead, minimal effort, a lot of flash would do the job, and they could just bully and bluster the WGA and the soap people into falling into line with the usual Hollywood hustle because after all, they only make soap operas.

It looks bad, it stinks, and until something real comes out of these people that isn't some nobody or some seat-of-your-pants [!@#$%^&*], or some leak or gossip in the trades blaming another party, I have nothing more to do about this than shake my head and be glad I live and work in New York. This is a real low-class way to keep stringing along an industry and its talented casts and crews that keeps doing its best to get up after getting knocked down over and over.

[DRW50]

I think you're right, although if actors weren't being jerked around again, and fans, I'd almost say it's worth it just for the discussion. There are a lot of people that I never get to talk to enough here who are on a little more now for this.

[EricMontreal22]

I get that, Drangonflies, love, but then... Would Agnes bother being on board? She seems to only be because she really respects the fanbase she has and these are her babies. And then what would differentiate it from the myriad of other online soaps that use ex soap stars? Newspapers NEVER write about any of those. Sure it could be much more professional, but it still would have a much harder uphill battle to even get noticed. It makes absolutely zero financial sense. As SFK said.

If you heard that some company was doing a new online soap and it might have several OLTL or AMC cast members (who prob would be less interested in agreeing to do do a brand new untested soap and new role), would YOU personally have any more interest than you do in, say, Venice? (Maybe you're a huge Venice fan--I have no idea). I wouldn't, frankly. I might check it out, but, meh. Khan did mention that if they did something like a new Erica Kane soap--that would be a different kettle of fish, but even then...

There's already been too much worrying about older viewers not bothering with a show that's online--but on the AMC facebook page there are a TON of posters on it who frankly look like late middle aged housewives, or who have claimed they've watched since the start, who ARE very excited by this. So there's *some* audience already there--and those people in particular would prob never bother with a non AMC/OLTL new online soap.

That idea like that works for me. But--as you point out I think--they already have at least SOME audience there to test it with.

[EricMontreal22]

Vee, I actually don't disagree with anything you say--you're pretty much right. I still feel more hopeful this time around, and I admit, as Carl said, I'm enjoying having the sicussion as much as I know letting myself get more into this could just lead to more heartache. But I realize that--I guess for now I'm alright following the info.

[Vee]

Oh, I'll still follow the info and the thread. I just am very disgusted with this whole thing so far.

And another thing those guys over on that podcast do get right is that if this keeps [!@#$%^&*] up, it may very well poison the well for any future soap revival online. Industry groupthink moves quickly and easily, and feeds on itself. Even this shitty effort can be chalked up as "we tried," and the lazy corporate mentality could then very well write these shows off for years simply because Prospect Park never got its [!@#$%^&*] together. Those guys will go on to find another hustle and the soaps would hit the dustbin again.

I want to believe this can work. I just see nothing legitimate suggesting it will.