All: 25 biggest blunders in Daytime Soap History

[EricMontreal22]

Yeah the first Victor revelation led to some really terrific stuff, but everytime they've gone back to it, it's been a bigger and bigger mistake.

I grew to like Josh too--, and I admit after the fact that I did finally start to accept him, to then have Pratt kill him off the way he did just made me all the more annoyed.

[EricMontreal22]

Was reliance on focus groups on the list? I think that, and the increased interference of network execs was a bigger general problem than many of these. Even the writer roundelay has been going on since the 60s--arguably even the 50s--the egomaniac James Lipton not only "killed" a number of soaps, he never had a successful soap writing period, yet was even allowed to create a (flop) soap of his own with Best of Everything, and was still being hired by the time he ended Capitol. So it's a blunder that's been going on forever it seems, but should have been dealt with, and was made worse when focus groups and network interference played a part.

I do agree with the tragedy of the wiping of episodes, but am not sure I'd place it at number two, partly because this was a problem with a lot of tv, at lewast through to the early 70s, largely any tv that was recorded on video tape. I can only assume back then they really didn't realize what they were doing (although Dan Curtis at Dark Shadows did, as did Ryan's Hoope and some other examples)--but yes, it is a tragedy.

[EricMontreal22]

Sadly, I do think there's an audience for it. I find shows like Criminal Minds often play on misogyny for their thrills, although it's a different type of situation I suppose.

[EricMontreal22]

That's a good point, In the case of Mad Men, while it's true that many women (and men) despite all his flaws swoon over Don Draper, I don't think the show gives him a free pass by any means, the way some soaps have.

Toi be fair, I know Sons of Anarchy has actually been criticized for portraying stronger women, with more control, than would "real;ly" exist in that setting.

Of course than you also have Ryan Murphy's Nip/Tuck but that was probably offensive (purposefully) to every group...

[EricMontreal22]

Agreed. In many ways AMC is the most traditional, "old school" soap right now--particularly on ABC, and I think that gave them the excuse to say that that's not what fans wanted.

[marceline]

One of these days you and I are going to have to meet at High Noon and have a real debate about Criminal Minds. Personally I find CM to be the least misogynistic procedural I've seen.

[EricMontreal22]

It DOES have some strong recurring female characters. I guess I just find the reliance on women being harmed in such gruesome ways tips the scale a bit too far in one direction--but I'd be open to being proven wrong there--I haven't watched much of it lately at all.

[marceline]

If you look at most of the female crime victims I think you'll see that CM has done a very good job of A.) keeping them human and B.) writing them as strong and resilient in the face of all that gruesomeness. CM is the only show where even though I've cringed watching it part of me has hoped that if I ever faced situations that heinous, I would remember what I saw on CM over something on SVU or CSI.

Like I said, one day you and I will have a real debate about this.

[EricMontreal22]

Fair enough, and that does make sense. I guess part of my issue with the show is just the continued hypocricy of American TV at showing such gruesome violence, but still be too scared to show a lot when it comes to sex and sexuality, unless it is connected to violence--but that's not necesarily the same as misogynistic.

[OLTL_fan]

I look forward to the results. I hope a lot of people vote. I voted again.

[Saving ATWT]

Criminal Minds started the sex/murder link when the new writers came in. I think it is all part of an effort to boost demos. For the first few seasons, CM was great in that it wasn't all about gruesome visuals. Also, the show was far more character driven. Reid and Garcia got a huge amount of attention which was geeky fun.

CM is one of those rare shows that has grown in demos with age. I wonder if this will continue with the pathetic cliff hanger last season that left a fan fav, Emily, up in the air?

[Saving ATWT]

I don't think Valente, Black and Stern were all that bad for ATWT when you put their appointment in context. Marland was having trouble during his final year at ATWT, was in the process of getting rid of the Snyder family and had just introduced a number of new characters. Valente sole job was to trim the fat--get rid of misplaced, ageing vets who had no meaningful future on the show. A good example was Lyla: I loved the character but she no longer had a purpose, the KC story was cheezy, and she was a left over from two decades ago.

The Doubson's would have been the best replacement for Marland but they were black balled by then.

[DRW50]

Lyla was written out a year and a half before Valente arrived.

While I agree some of the characters who were written out had run their course, I don't believe there was any valid reason to fire Scott DeFrietas.

It's easy to fire people. It's not so easy to replace them. Not one of the characters Valente or Black and Stern brought in was worth it, with the possible exception of Ben.

[Saving ATWT]

I thought Valente did some sort of blood bath? I was young back then, did not read soap mags, but thought he was hired to bring down cost.

As far as I know, Andy being let go was a CBS move. They felt he lacked sex appeal. He was cute, but ATWT had some fairly sexless men from the 80s-2011. First example I can remember was the Tom Hughes recast. ATWT did pretty men but never HOT like GL.

I loved Ben, not with Camile but with Denise and Jessica. Denise was a great character who somehow got lost in the shuffle. She was one of the last characters to live in the Hughes house before they trashed the set.

[TeamEric]

It's hard to write a series about FBI profilers and not realistically depict a society where woman are repeatedly victimized in all sorts of gruesome ways. I love CM because they don't pull a CSI where too clinically distant and techno babble. The victim and their suffering is often more the focus than the suspect on CM.

But I will say once they lost Gideon, CM lost its heart and soul. He was the voice of viewer appalled and sickened to the depths by the weekly atrocities and he never talked DOWN to Garcia the way that Rossi often does.