11 hours ago, dc11786 said:

I don't think I've seen this episode in its entirety before. My 1995 viewing a couple years back stopped at Ned and Lois' wedding just as the AIDS story started ramping up. 

I was wondering when this episode was filmed. Rosalind Cash passed on October 31st so I am curious if this was filmed after that. That may add an additional level of somber to the performances of some of the performers. 

This episode definitely felt like Labine was trying to embody the spirit of Delia from her creation "Ryan's Hope" into Lucy. Lynn Herring is a real gem who manages to make every incarnation of Lucy enjoyable. I thought the Doc and Lucy scenes were an interesting contrast about the possible end of a love affair while Robin and Stone are sharing their final moments together. It made Lucy look a little silly, but I hope this was reflected upon in a later episode. 

I am always so happy when you post in this thread.  Your replies are always awesome and thoughtful!

I know they address Mary Mae's death on screen very shortly after Stone's so it's possible this episode was filmed after her death.  At the very least you would assume the cast knew she was quite ill.  I know Labine gets criticized a lot for making GH depressing, but this was a particularly depressing time.  Robin finds out she has HIV, Stone dies, Mary Mae dies, and Jason has his accident all in very short span of time.  Outside of Kevin/Lucy and possibly Lois/Ned no one is really happy during this period although I do think Luke/Laura had recently got back together before Stone's death.

I thought that Lucy/Kevin were out of place in the first part of this episode.  I would have honestly just had them hear the news and react.  Save the duck stuff for another day and I do enjoy Kevin/Lucy a lot.  That's really just nitpicking and an otherwise fantastic episode though.

11 hours ago, dc11786 said:

Nikki is such a fascinating creature. Mostly a hot mess, but there are moments where I think this character could have worked as a long term (or at least longer) antagonist. There was a nice sequence before the wedding where Nikki confides in Monica that she never thought something like this could happen to her only for her to smirk behind Monica's back when they hugged. I'm not convinced that Riche was completely ready to let go of Nikki when she had her pregnant during her brief 1993 return. 

 The Jack Kensington scandal is such a Levinson style story that degrades the female heroine by degrading her sexually in a way that is unnecessary. I didn't realize they played a beat of Jack Kensington still wanting Jenny. I think that kinda went away in 1993 as Jenny and Paul were already together. I enjoy Cheryl Richardson more later in her run, but Jenny is such a hard character because she often has so little agency. I really have a soft spot for so many of the Monty II remnants that Riche managed to find a some life in. Cheryl, Julia, Nikki, Bill, and Paul all seem to be more manageable in these forms. 

 

I think I was discussing with you months ago that Nikki fascinated me too.  Mostly because everyone was so openly hostile to her in the clips I watched.  I know she wasn't terribly popular and they may have had to recast, but it does seem like the show ditched her too soon.   I have no idea if Nikki truly had long term viability.  The whole story seemed to sort of end in a whimper though.

I always thought the Jenny/Jack Kensington story felt dated even though I know Levinson was playing into current real life scandals.  The side plot about Jenny lying about being a virgin felt like something out of the 50's lol.  It never made much sense to lie about that aspect of her life even if she wanted to keep the affair secret.  I really never liked Jenny so I often had a hard time understanding why both Ned and Paul were so into her anyhow.  I also wonder if Riche was thinking about bringing Paul/Jenny back when she popped back up in labor and Ned had to help deliver the baby back in 1995.  That felt so random.

They mention The Eckerts bakery a lot on GH currently so I wonder if Jenny is in town still. Does she know her ex-husband is a serial killer? 

I'll just say I'd forgotten that Stone's death is actually only the midpoint of the episode. That took real balls. The rest being dedicated to the community reaction and a series of codas (like the Luke/Lucky scene) was wonderful.

I also loved Sonny's reaction when he came in and just bluntly asks 'is he dead?' while trying to process and function himself, just repeating it over. It felt all too real. Maurice was very good in those days.

2 hours ago, carolineg said:

Outside of Kevin/Lucy and possibly Lois/Ned no one is really happy during this period although I do think Luke/Laura had recently got back together before Stone's death.

I thought that Lucy/Kevin were out of place in the first part of this episode.  I would have honestly just had them hear the news and react.  Save the duck stuff for another day and I do enjoy Kevin/Lucy a lot.  That's really just nitpicking and an otherwise fantastic episode though.

They had, I just rewatched that stuff. It was played for fun after Lucky and Emily's runaway silliness.

I think the Lucy/Kevin stuff was both there to add some lightness but tie in the themes of life changing over time and Lucy maybe having an omen that Stone was about to die.

2 hours ago, carolineg said:

They mention The Eckerts bakery a lot on GH currently so I wonder if Jenny is in town still. Does she know her ex-husband is a serial killer? 

I just assume Jenny hasn't been back in aeons. I know Paul mentioned her a few times and said his scheming ways or other sins drove her and their son away. What's wild is I suspect they intended to have Cheryl Richardson (among others) appear during the original Fluke saga when he was meant to be Bill. They even had someone (Ned?) calling Jenny or Julia IIRC.

Throwing it out there ... if Kin Shriner stayed into 1994 and we had more time with Lucy/Scotty/Katherine, could Nikki have taken Katherine's role in Lois/Ned/Katherine?

6 minutes ago, Vee said:

I'll just say I'd forgotten that Stone's death is actually only the midpoint of the episode. That took real balls. The rest being dedicated to the community reaction and a series of codas (like the Luke/Lucky scene) was wonderful.

I also loved Sonny's reaction when he came in and just bluntly asks 'is he dead?' while trying to process and function himself, just repeating it over. It felt all too real. Maurice was very good in those days.

 

Yeah, the episode structure really surprised me.  I obviously have seen the edits and the episode before, but it's very interesting Stone dies and then we get to see the moving parts of the aftermath in the same show.

Sonny's reaction to Stone hits.  When he asks is he sleeping?  Is he dead?  He's dead. Okay.  It's so blunt, but so moving.  

I should mention I loved Felicia's speech to Robin telling her she loved Stone well.  It was a great piece of dialogue between Robin/Felicia and made me forgive Felicia's early interactions with stupid Tom.

10 minutes ago, Vee said:

I just assume Jenny hasn't been back in aeons. I know Paul mentioned her a few times and said his scheming ways or other sins drove her and their son away. What's wild is I suspect they intended to have Cheryl Richardson (among others) appear during the original Fluke saga when he was meant to be Bill. They even had someone (Ned?) calling Jenny or Julia IIRC.

I always have troubling placing where Jenny is.  I recall Paul mentioning her, but never saying where she was.  I have no doubt Julia and Jenny were meant to come back.   I remember Sonny calling Brenda to get ahold of Julia at some point, but I don't remember Ned calling anyone although it would make sense if he did.   I get why the story fell apart, but there really was no follow up if anyone actually talked to Julia or Jenny lol.

5 minutes ago, Franko said:

Throwing it out there ... if Kin Shriner stayed into 1994 and we had more time with Lucy/Scotty/Katherine, could Nikki have taken Katherine's role in Lois/Ned/Katherine?

Personally, I always thought she'd fit better in the younger crowd with AJ, Jason, Brenda, etc.  Although that group pretty quickly merged into the Lois/Ned group so possibly?  I just can't really see it.  Anyone probably would have been better than Katherine though lol.

On 11/28/2024 at 2:37 AM, Vee said:

Not officially a Thanksgiving episode, but a very important one for the holiday and especially this month and this year. Happy holidays.

Beautiful. Absolutely beautiful!

November '96. I haven't seen this in 30 years. I was super into Stefan and Bobbie back in the day and it's still beyond me Culliton let it go.

From what others have said, correct me if I'm wrong, they were still working from Guza's '96 outlines til December so I tend to count this as technically somewhat semi-Guza, as Karen Harris is still co-head with Culliton, lol. But of course you also already have Culliton's Miranda, miscast with Leslie Horan and taken far from the original planned intent, and the Timoria debacle. So it feels like kind of a mishmash, more than I remembered. It's such a shame how this next year was squandered due to the Sunset Beach situation.

Nice to see Bobbie talk about her past marriages to Brock and Jake Meyer.

Bobbie and Jackie were always comfort characters to me back in the day as a kid - she was the first thing I hooked into about the show in '93. Whereas it took me awhile back then to warm up to SN/Stefan. I found him fascinating from the start and loved his intricate and gothic relationships with his family (including Alexis) but also found him very spooky and cold, even later on when the totally bungled execution of the actual Stefan/Laura pairing around '98/'99 was sleepy, neutered and listless, while I counted the seconds waiting for LNL to reunite which never quite happened. By his last 3-4 years before exiting in '01 I had grown to like and definitely want better for Stefan. Anyway, Stefan and Bobbie were very sexy to me even at this time, but seeing Bobbie with the Prince of Darkness was tricky for a kid to process lol. Today I have no such compunctions and I adore Stefan. And I think Stefan and Laura (per their scenes in '96) also could and should have been scorching if done right.

The Sonny/Brenda stuff is quite good here too. It's such a tragedy what happened to this longtime dialogue staff.

3 hours ago, Vee said:

November '96. I haven't seen this in 30 years. I was super into Stefan and Bobbie back in the day and it's still beyond me Culliton let it go.

From what others have said, correct me if I'm wrong, they were still working from Guza's '96 outlines til December so I tend to count this as technically somewhat semi-Guza, as Karen Harris is still co-head with Culliton, lol. But of course you also already have Culliton's Miranda, miscast with Leslie Horan and taken far from the original planned intent, and the Timoria debacle. So it feels like kind of a mishmash, more than I remembered. It's such a shame how this next year was squandered due to the Sunset Beach situation.

Nice to see Bobbie talk about her past marriages to Brock and Jake Meyer.

Bobbie and Jackie were always comfort characters to me back in the day as a kid - she was the first thing I hooked into about the show in '93. Whereas it took me awhile back then to warm up to SN/Stefan. I found him fascinating from the start and loved his intricate and gothic relationships with his family (including Alexis) but also found him very spooky and cold, even later on when the totally bungled execution of the actual Stefan/Laura pairing around '98/'99 was sleepy, neutered and listless, while I counted the seconds waiting for LNL to reunite which never quite happened. By his last 3-4 years before exiting in '01 I had grown to like and definitely want better for Stefan. Anyway, Stefan and Bobbie were very sexy to me even at this time, but seeing Bobbie with the Prince of Darkness was tricky for a kid to process lol. Today I have no such compunctions and I adore Stefan. And I think Stefan and Laura (per their scenes in '96) also could and should have been scorching if done right.

The Sonny/Brenda stuff is quite good here too. It's such a tragedy what happened to this longtime dialogue staff.

Damn. Nichols & Zeman had some real good chemistry. WHEW.

3 hours ago, Vee said:

November '96. I haven't seen this in 30 years. I was super into Stefan and Bobbie back in the day and it's still beyond me Culliton let it go.

From what others have said, correct me if I'm wrong, they were still working from Guza's '96 outlines til December so I tend to count this as technically somewhat semi-Guza, as Karen Harris is still co-head with Culliton, lol. But of course you also already have Culliton's Miranda, miscast with Leslie Horan and taken far from the original planned intent, and the Timoria debacle. So it feels like kind of a mishmash, more than I remembered. It's such a shame how this next year was squandered due to the Sunset Beach situation.

Nice to see Bobbie talk about her past marriages to Brock and Jake Meyer.

Bobbie and Jackie were always comfort characters to me back in the day as a kid - she was the first thing I hooked into about the show in '93. Whereas it took me awhile back then to warm up to SN/Stefan. I found him fascinating from the start and loved his intricate and gothic relationships with his family (including Alexis) but also found him very spooky and cold, even later on when the totally bungled execution of the actual Stefan/Laura pairing around '98/'99 was sleepy, neutered and listless, while I counted the seconds waiting for LNL to reunite which never quite happened. By his last 3-4 years before exiting in '01 I had grown to like and definitely want better for Stefan. Anyway, Stefan and Bobbie were very sexy to me even at this time, but seeing Bobbie with the Prince of Darkness was tricky for a kid to process lol. Today I have no such compunctions and I adore Stefan. And I think Stefan and Laura (per their scenes in '96) also could and should have been scorching if done right.

The Sonny/Brenda stuff is quite good here too. It's such a tragedy what happened to this longtime dialogue staff.

Brenda just hanging out in the most poofiest of all her wedding dresses at home is kind of funny.  And Sonny showing up like she'd be happy to see him after he publicly blew up her wedding is the kind of silly swagger and confidence I like from him.  Those crazy kids.

You always just wish Miranda/Leslie Horan could make a facial expression that didn't imply boredom and she never did.

I can't even remember how this Lucky/video game stuff ends.  A coveted Fabergé egg?  I can't remember why that's important. I always thought Lucky would end up doing something on the tech side because he was so good with computers.  Like a less spastic and annoying Spinelli

 

17 minutes ago, Liberty City said:

Damn. Nichols & Zeman had some real good chemistry. WHEW.

They were fire.  I have swear I have posted about how this pairing's ending annoys me to this day a million times.  

Edited December 1, 2024Dec 1 by carolineg

8 minutes ago, carolineg said:

I can't even remember how this Lucky/video game stuff ends.

I don't either. I thought Lucky literally couldn't stop playing it at one point or something? I guess a VR/ARG video game storyline was ahead of its time but very poorly done lol

2 minutes ago, Vee said:

I don't either. I thought Lucky literally couldn't stop playing it at one point or something? I guess a VR/ARG video game storyline was ahead of its time but very poorly done lol

It appears he's pretty obsessed with it and Emily looks sad he won't eat lunch with her.  I remember Luke thinking the whole thing was very important, but I can't recall the conclusion or if there was one.

Also, Jax/Miranda are the most overwrought non-couple in the universe.  "How many times did you wake up from an operation without me by your side, Miranda?"  Seriously, shut up.  Both of you.

Just now, carolineg said:

Also, Jax/Miranda are the most overwrought non-couple in the universe.  "How many times did you wake up from an operation without me by your side, Miranda?"  Seriously, shut up.  Both of you.

I never realized she supposedly looked different. I guess not that different?? Eh. I have no idea what Guza's endgame was with this quartet before he dipped.

13 minutes ago, Vee said:

I never realized she supposedly looked different. I guess not that different?? Eh. I have no idea what Guza's endgame was with this quartet before he dipped.

Her eyes were the same.  That's how Jax recognized her🙄.  They end up showing crappy flashbacks of them on the beach riding a white horse with her current face so that thread may have been dropped.  I think Guza's endgame was to pair Jax/Miranda.  I really think Miranda was supposed to be one of the next leading ladies. Guza was already halfway out the door so probably made the outline before realizing how popular Sonny/Brenda/Jax would end up being.  I am pretty sure everyone knew Vanessa and Mo were dipping when their contracts were up.  Obviously, Vanessa stayed that useless extra year though.  1997 was just rough.  Thank goodness for Sarah Brown and Carly.

Edited December 1, 2024Dec 1 by carolineg

4 minutes ago, carolineg said:

Her eyes were the same.  That's how Jax recognized her🙄.  They end up showing crappy flashbacks of them on the beach riding a white horse with her current face so that thread may have been dropped.  I think Guza's endgame was to pair Jax/Miranda.  I really think Miranda was supposed to be one of the next leading ladies. Guza was already halfway out the door so probably made the outline before realizing how popular Sonny/Brenda/Jax would end up being.  I am pretty sure everyone knew Vanessa and Mo were dipping when their contracts were up.  Obviously, Vanessa stayed that useless extra year though. 

But if not for the useless extra year we wouldn't have the more healthy and mature Jax/Brenda endgame stuff I remember loving! Although I haven't watched much of it in decades and I am over them today lol. I think Sonny and Brenda is the only game left in town provided he ever changes, which he won't.

I can't imagine Guza ever being into the Miranda they ended up casting after he was out the door. What a mess.

14 minutes ago, Vee said:

But if not for the useless extra year we wouldn't have the more healthy and mature Jax/Brenda endgame stuff I remember loving! Although I haven't watched much of it in decades and I am over them today lol. I think Sonny and Brenda is the only game left in town provided he ever changes, which he won't.

I can't imagine Guza ever being into the Miranda they ended up casting after he was out the door. What a mess.

Oh, I liked a lot of the Brenda/Jax stuff from 1998.  It's some of their best work as a couple.  It just felt like it took almost 9 months to get there and by then we knew Vanessa was out anyways.  You had to sit through Brenda's breakdown, her losing all her money, losing her job and having no prospects, her trying to woo Jax back, etc for too long. I really wouldn't have minded a Brenda/Jax endgame.  I am over it now too though.  Obviously, Sonny is the only person left for Brenda in town and most days I am even iffy on that.

The positives are Julia's return and them reconnecting, Robin's return for them to be roomies in the cute cottage, and the beginnings of a Jason/Brenda spark.  Everything else was a bit of wasted time.

I don't know why on Earth they cast Leslie Horan.  She's obviously a very beautiful woman, but she is unable to convey emotion at all.  I had to giggle when she said I won't cry in this episode.  Girl, you can't cry on cue don't even try to fake us out.  And she didn't have any chemistry with Ingo.  She had more chemistry with Maurice which maybe a Sonny/Miranda pairing could have been an idea, but then there's all the weird Mac backstory at the same time.

**ETA-I didn't even mention the back from the dead crazy mom for Brenda-which was also the worst.**

Edited December 1, 2024Dec 1 by carolineg

I don't remember Brenda losing all her money lol. Wild.

I think Miranda was just one of a series of casting/story blunders by Riche in the latter years of her tenure (Hannah, Jax/Chloe, Jacob Young, Juan, the debatable A Martinez hire lol). But most great EPs (or HWs) have some of those on average.

I do wonder if Guza or anyone else had any idea what they were doing with Jason and Brenda at this early date. I doubt it. I remember watching the airplane scenes with them live in '98 and thinking they were obviously going there next, but I was not particularly wedded to either of their prior couples at that time. It didn't shock me when Guza started exploring it again in 2002. Looking at it now, Steve and Vanessa had great chemistry but I kind of think it would've upended the show in probably an unnecessary way - the other couples were more money in the bank.