Bizarre soap scenes

[Khan]

That's just it: Claire Labine's GH run was the end for classic soap storytelling. For all intents and purposes, soaps stopped being soaps when she left, devolving into a dumping ground for every bad plot idea possible.

However, IMO, what Labine and Paul Avila Mayer accomplished at RYAN'S HOPE before ABC began interfering marked the end of something, too. Before, you could get away (as L&M did) with shows that explored quieter, more nuanced stories about everyday people living in everyday circumstances. Afterwards, though, and with the advent of Luke & Laura, it seemed as if writers had a new mandate to tell stories that were, well, just bigger -- more glamorous, more cinematic, more larger-than-life -- and less homespun and heartfelt.

For awhile, the good ones -- Bell, Marland, Nixon, Wisner Washam at AMC, Pam Long and Nancy Curlee at GUIDING LIGHT -- seemed to strike a balance between pre- and post-disco era storytelling. By the mid-'90's, however, networks wanted stories the way movie execs want stories: if you can't sum it up in two lines or less, then it's too "deep-dish" and it won't play in the 18-34 markets (or so they think).

[DRW50]

I do think that those who felt Labine's writing wasn't quite suited to GH had a point, although it was 100 times more suited than Guza, who got some early praise (mostly based on Labine's outlines) and then eviscerated every single part of GH.

I really wish I could see Labine's Love of Life and Where the Heart Is.

[EricMontreal22]

Of course you mean Labine and Avila's Love of Life and Where the Heart is (I just feel like, a bit like Griffith helping Malone indispensibly on his best years of OLTL--well the first time 'round anyway--Avila never gets his due)

[DRW50]

Her work with Mayer is probably the most readily available, since it's been seen on Soapnet for the past 11 years.

In some ways I was unlucky, in others was very lucky, because I first started watching Ryan's Hope in the 1978 reruns, which is just a fantastic year for the show. What came after and what came before wasn't exactly as good, although still with a lot of fabulous moments (at least until around 1981).

[EricMontreal22]

I've seen very little--my new-soap friend I keep mentioning does get SoapNet and a month back I suggested he DVR Ryan's Hope, to see some classic soap opera, which I believe is in late 77 or so now--and he keeps raving about how terrific it is.

[ClassicSoapsFan]

Skip to 7:40. Genevieve kisses Colin:

http://youtu.be/60EbOHK6oeY

[beebs]

I assume Genie Francis didn't expect to be playing a cannibal when she took this job

[Mitch]

That was the missed opportunity (among thousands) that GL had when it went to its new production technique. That was the perfect time to return the show to the old days where the biggest events would be family celebrations of holidays and wedding and funerals. Where people would actually "talk," to each other and the storylines would unfold closer to the pace of everyday life. They advertised it as "Springfield, where life takes place," but it was a cliched soap life that could not possibly be backed up by their current production values: they had hunky jewel thief who looked like he should be stripping at Chippendales, an international assassin, (who lived in a shed) corporate take overs (which made no sense and the offices were closets) an exCIA agent who was a double of a prince, the princes brother who had a double himself, and they would chase each other "across the globe," but you could tell it was filmed in the same field that characters back in SF were just in. What they didnt have were a couple of good, "community sets" like Company, Cedars, the Towers, and actual basic living and kitchen sets for all of the characters, but most importantly, it didnt have character based writing based on real human emotions. They needed to ditch the cliches of the past and really go back to its roots and spend more time on writing and dialouge then production, and go back to the kind of character based writing you say Labine specialized in. Olivia and whats her face didnt work as it was "ground breaking," or because of the electric chemistry (their fans words,) of the leads, it was based on something a viewer, gay or straight could relate to; having feelings for someone and trying to deny them, or being afraid of rejection, or not wanting to hurt other people and friends and family. That is why GL needed someone like Labine (or could you imagine Curlee coming back to write at that time???) writing.

Which reminds me to get the thread back on track...another WTF moment of GL during Wheeler's regime, Jeffie and Jonathon having a shoot out with Edmund in a Peapack Forest Preserve? Jeffie grimly acting like he knew how to use a gun while good old TP, going back to his old bag of tricks, just shoots the gun while yelling at the top of his lungs, meanwhile, Eddie is hidden behind a two foot tall bush and they cant hit him.

Which reminds me of a WTF during Rauch. The SF gang all think Reva needs rescuing from Richard and San Crud (when it was really the auidence,) so despite the fact that they were not skiled in invading foreign countries, or that most of them had small children at home that needed them alive, they covertly slip in to the country. Josh and Matt have grimly approach a wall, and they have repelling equipment which they use to climb it...cause its "Reva dammit," Anyway, the actors do this with stone faces but for some reason the camera pulls back to reveal a wall that could not only be accessed by a step ladder, but we see the end of the wall, where Matt and Josh could have just walked around!!

[Gray Bunny]

OMG I remember that shot, and I thought "wait, I must be seeing things. Surely my eyes deceive me!"

[DeliaIrisFan]

Well, I pretty much completely agree with every word of this. Well said.

They're in early 1977 right now, and I actually would consider this to be the best period of the show. IMO, from about the time Delia's affair with Roger was exposed through Jack and Mary's reconciliation trapped in that basement, the show was running on all cylinders. There were aspects of 1978 and even 1979 that were as good or better than what came before. But while none of the 1976-77 heroines held a candle to original Siobhan - my favorite soap opera heroine ever - and I was more than ready to see Delia move beyond crying and scheming and groveling for the Ryans' approval, at the time, the entire show really was the story of this neighborhood of real people, warts and all, whose own flaws and the way their quirks rubbed each other the wrong way made for all of the conflict. And the spark that usually ignited that drama was Delia, who was a living, breathing, three dimensional character whose every move made complete sense (from her warped perspective) but also was so enmeshed with this family that she was able to make all of their lives hell just to fulfill her well-established needs, using the methods that had been reinforced from the time she was a child. Her scenes could be painful to watch when she was at her most desperate, and she wasn't the only one, but - for me, anyway - I cringed because they were so human more than anything else.

Once Delia redirected some of her worst behaviors and became more independent (not to mention other characters like Jack mellowed as well), there was a void. And, unfortunately, some of it was filled with "soapy" elements that seemed out of place, like early Rae and her uber-rich husband who spent months dying on-screen. Or worse, Tom's brain tumor and then that look-a-like of his lost love and his and Karen Morris Gowdy's Faith's other freak medical maladies along the way. Also, the Mary recasts were just such a waste of airtime for the most part. Don't get me wrong, it was still 80-90% excellent to stellar until around the time Edmond died, IMO, but for me, nothing compares to that year and a half or so when they were telling stories that were clearly so meticulously planned and that grew out of characters that the writers obviously had such an affinity for (after they finally fine-tuned the casting of those original characters, that is).

[Khan]

Well said, Mitch!

I think GL tried getting back to basics when they promoted Jill Lorie Hurst to HW. By that point, however, it was a case of "too damn little, too damn late." Nothing - and I do mean nothing - was gonna bring back the audience, no matter how hard they tried.

[Khan]

Someone once wrote how RH would have made for a better primetime series, given its' unique tendency to feature characters who cut against the daytime grain. I'd have to agree with that writer.

[DRW50]

The rushed Pat/Faith romance (a transparent excuse for Delia to go nuts) ruined Pat as a viable character and ultimately led to a lot of filler to stretch out the plot, so that is the reason I don't enjoy 1977 as much as 1978 (the awful Tom story was at least good for a laugh).

[DeliaIrisFan]

Granted, that was the one big hole in the 1977 stories. And IMO it was an example of something that was too soapy - Pat and Faith's rushed engagement just in time for Delia to announce she was pregnant. But for me it was forgivable, and I personally didn't feel it ruined Pat. I thought the tumor stuff kind of worked as camp, but wasn't up to par for RH, and then the look-a-like thing was just embarrassing.

[DRW50]

IMO Pat became nothing - just this bore. Any personality trait was removed in order to sell the idea of this great romance with Faith and how she completed him and only Delia could drag him down. But after the story was over, Pat was left with nothing as a character, and I also wonder if this is a reason why Malcolm Groome left. Pat had the potential to be such a fascinating character and I never felt like the story, as good as some of the individual moments were, was worth the sacrifice.

The tumor was just awful, don't get me wrong, but I tend to enjoy stupid stuff like this of the infamous King King homage more than the "serious" material like the mob follies or Kimbo Gone Wild.