And plus, reality shows aren't afraid to look for human drama in strange/weird/odd places. Agnes Nixon, in her heyday, could have written an incredible storyline about the psychological aspects of compulsive hoarding and how it affects families. But that's not glamorous, so soaps would never ever go there.

Reality shows were this way 10-15 years ago but I can't say it is now, unless strange places means drunken fighting.

Knock it all you want but its intersting drama and people are eating it up. The soaps could learn a thing or two from these shows

Knock it all you want but its intersting drama and people are eating it up. The soaps could learn a thing or two from these shows

Exploitation of women and stupid people fighting each other for no reason are already what have killed soaps, IMO.

Exploitation of women and stupid people fighting each other for no reason are already what have killed soaps, IMO.

Actual focus on women, their familes, careers, friendships, etc... is whats been lacking from soaps in recent years. I think they could all stand to go back to that instead of being so male dominated in terms of their storytelling

Actual focus on women, their familes, careers, friendships, etc... is whats been lacking from soaps in recent years. I think they could all stand to go back to that instead of being so male dominated in terms of their storytelling

I agree, but I don't think that's what we'd get if any soap tried to emulate Real Housewives. These shows are only focused on by the media when women are fighting, yelling, being violent, etc. I think it would end up being like what AMC has tried to do with Kendall and Greenlee over the last decade.

I will always defend the idea of reality shows but they've gotten so far away from the initial purpose of them and instead they just seem like scripted shows with "real" people. I can barely watch most of them these days. Stuff like Survivor or Big Brother seem so forced now.

Reality shows were this way 10-15 years ago but I can't say it is now, unless strange places means drunken fighting.

There are a good bit of shows that are like that. Nearly every single episode of True Life delves into something that soaps are too scared to touch and they usually do a great job at mining the human drama out of it (while managing to be entirely objective), and this includes episodes that have drunk people fighting.

I guess I see True Life as more like the old type of documentaries that HBO used to do. I see reality TV as stuff like MTV's beloved sagas of drunk people beating each other up.

The Real Housewives franchise is brilliant at editing inane crap into truly compelling, "character" driven storytelling. Each housewife is a "character" and each franchise has their version of each "character"...there is a formula and it works.

Although I still get immense enjoyment out of DAYS and to the odd episode of Y&R and B&B and AMC, I wouldn't ever miss a Housewives episode, they are meat and potatoes style drama that so much of daytime really could have lead the way on. I don't see these women as being exploited, most of them have capitalized on their notoriety beautifully. As well, these are shows where women are the stars unequivocally. Daytime cannot generally claim that.

The Real Housewives franchise is brilliant at editing inane crap into truly compelling, "character" driven storytelling. Each housewife is a "character" and each franchise has their version of each "character"...there is a formula and it works.

I think in the long run this need to push the idea of a "character" is what hurts most reality shows. They don't give room to breathe. For instance, from what some of you have said, the characters the Housewives franchise sees as boring may end up being better for the shows than the people who are overedited as being in conflict and saying/doing crazy things.

It reminds me of Project Runway. They were so desperate to make a big character and push him all season long that the rest of the show went to hell. After the season with Jeffrey and Laura, I never watched again.

I don't think it's the same with the Housewives shows, because they seem to have better casting (at least on their more popular shows), but I do think a lot of reality shows burn out because they think any scripted hysteria has to be the top priority.

Of course soaps are the same, or worse, at pushing one or two "big" characters at the expense of everything else. Greenlee, the various noble rapists on OLTL, McBain, Jason, Victor and his sick children, Phyllis.

They just think viewers are idiots.

Edited July 25, 201114 yr by CarlD2

The Real Housewives franchise is brilliant at editing inane crap into truly compelling, "character" driven storytelling. Each housewife is a "character" and each franchise has their version of each "character"...there is a formula and it works.

Although I still get immense enjoyment out of DAYS and to the odd episode of Y&R and B&B and AMC, I wouldn't ever miss a Housewives episode, they are meat and potatoes style drama that so much of daytime really could have lead the way on. I don't see these women as being exploited, most of them have capitalized on their notoriety beautifully. As well, these are shows where women are the stars unequivocally. Daytime cannot generally claim that.

I so agree! Its not just the Bravo shows but other housewives. Mob Wives was brilliant at that. I watched that thing and thought of it as what GH could have been had it been written write. That was some good drama between each of those women and how they lived within the mob world. It isnt about soaps emulating these shows, but looking at what works with them and going back to basics bc soaps used to be about this stuff. They are too misogynstic and male oriented and really the focus used to be and should be on the women. These shows are doing so well bc they focus exclusively on the women with the men being appendages to them. Its what the consumer wants to see

Most of my friends LOVE these shows. I just don't get it. But certainly, for me, they don't replace what I cherish with soaps. I would never picture a touching family scene in Housewives, or even for that matter a big shock reveal. The ratings are good--but by cable numbers. Do they compare to soap ratings? I know the finale of one series did score a 4.0 which is pretty amazing, but....

When I watched the first season of NJ, they had some nice family moments with Caroline and her kids. I enjoyed that. But from what some have said the show doesn't do any of that now.

I think there's always a market for shows with women screaming at each other, but the question is what happens when people get tired of this. Is that all the shows have become? I don't watch enough of them to really know. I watched some of NJ, and then some of early OC, which was so full of unlikeable people.

The Real Housewives franchise is brilliant at editing inane crap into truly compelling, "character" driven storytelling. Each housewife is a "character" and each franchise has their version of each "character"...there is a formula and it works.

Although I still get immense enjoyment out of DAYS and to the odd episode of Y&R and B&B and AMC, I wouldn't ever miss a Housewives episode, they are meat and potatoes style drama that so much of daytime really could have lead the way on. I don't see these women as being exploited, most of them have capitalized on their notoriety beautifully. As well, these are shows where women are the stars unequivocally. Daytime cannot generally claim that.

I won't argue that, at all. But I admit, I don't see the drama in these shows. It feels so forced, to me, that I can't view them as anything more than a cleverly orchestrated freak show. And I say that with the knowledge of a LOT of my friends who I respect unendingly LOVING the shows. I've tried, oh how I've tried, but I just don't get it.... I feel manipulated, and not in the way I like to feel manipulated while watching tv. (though that gay version The A List or whatever, was kinda good for camp appeal)

When I watched the first season of NJ, they had some nice family moments with Caroline and her kids. I enjoyed that. But from what some have said the show doesn't do any of that now.

I think there's always a market for shows with women screaming at each other, but the question is what happens when people get tired of this. Is that all the shows have become? I don't watch enough of them to really know. I watched some of NJ, and then some of early OC, which was so full of unlikeable people.

That's my prob. I respect the opinions of a lot of people here who are fans. But for me it feels like one extended cat fight. Is this showing strong female "characters"? Is there ANY sort fo shelf life for these shows? (I guess that last question is beyond the point - there prob isn't any sort of shelf life for the current state of soaps either...)

When I watched the first season of NJ, they had some nice family moments with Caroline and her kids. I enjoyed that. But from what some have said the show doesn't do any of that now.

I think there's always a market for shows with women screaming at each other, but the question is what happens when people get tired of this. Is that all the shows have become? I don't watch enough of them to really know. I watched some of NJ, and then some of early OC, which was so full of unlikeable people.

Caroline still has moments with her kids. They no longer live with her so there's less of it but its still a presence on the show. Really with her, her kids are her only storyline. That and her marriage (with wanting her husband to retire) and playing mama bear to her family. She most definetly is not someone that causes drama.I like that 3 seasons in and she's been able to retain her integrity without having to stoop to a level for ratings/secure spot for the next season

early OC was the best. If you think it was bad then, then dont even bothe to watch the newer seasons. This last one only had one likeable character adn it was the new girl. The other 4 were pretty insufferable in their own ways

That's my prob. I respect the opinions of a lot of people here who are fans. But for me it feels like one extended cat fight. Is this showing strong female "characters"? Is there ANY sort fo shelf life for these shows? (I guess that last question is beyond the point - there prob isn't any sort of shelf life for the current state of soaps either...)

I think with short attention spans it's more difficult to keep a long-term franchise, but I guess it depends on the people involved. The Hills shows now seem to be a distant memory because everyone involved was so dull.

If you have the right format it can go on forever but if you trample on your best potential to try to manipulate then you burn people out. When I watched NJ, Danielle and Teresa were almost always playing to the camera, very blatantly. It isn't so much reality as it's people who are trying to be bad actors. I would much rather have focus on less contrived people, as in the long run I think they produce better drama.

Caroline still has moments with her kids. They no longer live with her so there's less of it but its still a presence on the show. Really with her, her kids are her only storyline. That and her marriage (with wanting her husband to retire) and playing mama bear to her family. She most definetly is not someone that causes drama.I like that 3 seasons in and she's been able to retain her integrity without having to stoop to a level for ratings/secure spot for the next season

early OC was the best. If you think it was bad then, then dont even bothe to watch the newer seasons. This last one only had one likeable character adn it was the new girl. The other 4 were pretty insufferable in their own ways

Thanks.

I just couldn't take that woman on OC who hated her sons and who was obsessed with her daughter. The only other part I remember is the woman who had money problems and her son was in juvie. I thought she was OK, although she left after a year or two didn't she.