OLTL Tribute Thread

[EricMontreal22]

Blah--it just seemed to me at the time like we were meant to wait for him to die because Al's spirit deserved his body.

Vee--I somewhat agree with you. As bad as some of Malone's stuff was, if that was his origin al intention I think it may have been handled better (in terms of everything, pacing, sensitivity, etc). Since Higley took over (and maybe it was her idea to bring it in that direction) it was a mess. And Mark had barely even been on the show since the failed Love Shack or whatever it was called storyline of Malone/Griffith.

[Vee]

I don't think Malone had anything to do with that story. Higley came up with it, AFAIK. Colson the gay serial killer and Tess were her big pitches for the show.

[Dale]

I don't know if anybody has posted this, but it's a complete 1980 episode in excellent condition!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAoXc_2_evw

[BKuzak]

I for one had not seen it so thank you. it was rather good even though Viki wasn't on it. I'm so glad Robert Woods dropped the accent. It was pretty thick in this episode.

[DRW50]

Thanks. I hadn't known about that.

[melador]

Great episode - classic OLTL !!! Judith Light, Michael Storm, Jacquie Courtney, Bob Woods, Andrea Evans, Julie Montgomery, Mary Murray, Nancy Snyder, Sally Gracie...

Jack Betts was the quintessential villian Ivan Kipling - especially creepy in this episode. He always scared the you know what out of me as a kid !!!

[saynotoursoap]

Ivan Kipling was a marvelous character creation, one of the most unusual in soap history, but then, many of Gordon Russell’s characters were unusual by serial standards. In the late 70s, OLTL seemed the most adult of all the daytime soaps. Y&R had the reputation for being the sexiest soap, but it was “safe” romantic fantasy type drama. OLTL’s sexuality was baser, and often cloaked in negative expressions of guilt and repression.

Ivan was such a character. He had been raised in a strict, religious home that exceeded fanaticism. On the surface, he appeared a fine, respectable surgeon: competent, intelligent, a humanitarian. Underneath, he was a sexual sadist. He attempted to force his beautiful young wife Faith into bizarre fetishes, which left her cold and frigid. Ivan threatened to divorce her. He went out and rented a seedy apartment on the bad side of Llanview. There, he hired prostitutes to fulfill his perverted fantasies, which became increasingly violent. This was going out every day to over ten million homes and was actually quite provocative drama for the late 70s.

You see a snippet of that in the episode on You Tube which aired (probably) Wednesday, March 12^th or Thursday, March 13, 1980. What you do not see is Karen informing Faith Kipling about Ivan’s S&M activities with Llanview hookers. Karen gave Faith the address to his secret apartment, where Faith went and caught him. This is what has caused her disappearance from Ina’s boarding house. In the following episodes, Claudette Rio lures Karen to a warehouse, where Karen believes she is meeting Claudette. In actuality, Ivan awaits her with a scarf wrapped around his wrists. He attacks Karen, attempting to strangle her for revealing his secret, and in the struggle, she falls down a staircase. The fall leaves her paralyzed, but she is found and rushed to Llanview Hospital. Ivan offers to perform life-saving surgery on her, while Faith begs Mario to stop the surgery, since she knows Ivan intends to botch it and finish Karen off once and for all.

Yes, these were good days, but they would not last, and the writers remaining after Gordon Russell really never followed through with Ivan’s character. There were so many possibilities largely ignored.

[saynotoursoap]

I totally agree regarding Bo. Personally, I was never wild about the Buchanan family, but they were more tolerable when they stopped trying to be daytime's version of the Cartwrights.

Viki was not appearing at all during this time because Erika Slezak was on maternity leave, and the character had been written out of the story. This episode aired approximately two-to-three weeks before she returned.

Edited February 23, 2013 by saynotoursoap

[DRW50]

Thanks so much for the summary. I've heard about Ivan's fetishes, especially the early ones, and always wondered how far the show went. Didn't he wear a black glove, or want women to wear only black lingerie, or something?

They always kept Karen with that double life, and yearning for some type of respectability she could never have. That's what soaps don't know how to do today. Everything is black and white. Today Karen would own a hotel and go around looking down on people.

[saynotoursoap]

Exactly. There was a brief glimpse of Karen's attempt at respectability in this episode with her conservative gray suit. Ina mentioned Karen's real estate class. This was another plot point. Karen had spent her life living off men, either as a prostitute or a housewife. Part of her healing process was to get a respectable job and learn how to make an honest living.

In the summer of 1980 she graduates from real estate school, takes the exam, and earns her license. Larry is impressed with the changes in her, and they slowly begin to reconcile. At the same time, Mario becomes engaged to Edwina. They are two wounded, conflicted individuals who get each other in a way that others cannot. Mario has attempted to completely suppress his life as Marco Dane, but the guilt eats away at him. He begins having psychotic episodes that summer in which he totally forgets his identity as Mario and becomes Marco again with a vengeance. There was an episode where he and Edwina are in bed making love, and he becomes violent and despicable, scaring the life out of her. Eventually back in his Mario persona, he decides to cancel his wedding to Edwina and confides to Karen that he must confess his true identity to everyone. Marco is haunting him, and confessing his sins is the only way to stop him for good.

Of course Karen panics. She and Larry have reconciled and are beginning to put the shattered pieces of their marriage back together. Karen knows that if Mario confesses his identity, Larry will realize that Karen knew all along, and it will destroy everything they have fought to rebuild. As unlikely as the storyline is, and it is just as convoluted as anything on today, you believed in it and went along with the craziness of it because it was all rooted in a psychology that you could understand. To me, that is what is missing today, where everything is plot driven, and character motivation is dictated by story rather than allowing a nutty plot to evolve from character.

Edited February 24, 2013 by saynotoursoap

[DRW50]

That sounds enthralling. It's a way to make Marco pay for his crimes even though he technically got everything he ever wanted. And it's more of that double life concept.

It sounds like these stories all worked well while Russell was there and were then stretched out a little too long after he passed away.

[DRW50]

Thanks to SFK.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTn31jKIIqc

[melador]

Thanks sooo much saynotoursoap for the detailed summary of the Ivan Kipling story...As I mentioned above, I was just a kid at the time and only caught OLTL when I was off from school, home sick or over the summer, so I only caught bits and pieces of it. I always said this period of OLTL was one of my favorites; not just because of the great actors, but well crafted stories and characters. I thought the show had a very dark, gothic feel during this period, perhaps because of Gordon Russell and his previous experience writing at Dark Shadows.

I remember Ivan pushing Karen and then trying to kill her in the hospital. One scene that sticks out in my mind was Karen in the hospital room having a dream sequence and asking Ivan ..."Why is everyone crying ???" to which Ivan answers... "Because your dead Karen...your dead !!!"

Didn't Ivan also try to poison Karen via her IV drip and then Jenny accidentally knocks over the IV, esentially saving her sister ??? I remember my mother telling me they would never kill off Karen - she's too popular ! LOL

Also, I know there was talk that Ivan was Edwina's father...was that just rumored or was that ever addressed in the story ???

Thanks for the info...and let's hope for some more YouTube videos of this great period of OLTL !!!

[BKuzak]

I don't know who the Cartwrights are but from everything i read, the Buchanan's were suposed to be Daytime's version of the Ewings of Dallas. Remember this was 1980, right around the whole Who Shot JR. They brought in the Buchanan's from Texas and brought a little country-western into the show because Dallas was so popular. instead of Jock and his two boys, it was Asa and his two boys. Bo always reminded me of Bobby Ewing. He was always trying to do what was right. LIke in 1984 when he went to work for Lord Manning and was able to get Viki and the workers to work together. and of course all his years as the police commish.

Of course Clint didn't even come close to being a JR until decades later in the last few years of the show when he turned a little mean.

[DRW50]

The Cartwrights were the brothers and father on Bonanza.