3 hours ago, Vee said:

Homeless Laura always creeped me out. It wasn't til the Laura Allen recast who was super Sporty Spice dýke with Eden Riegel that I could take an interest in her. Of course that collapsed as soon as they moved her to Leo and Greenlee, which got so embarrassing.

Rewatching the Homeless Laura stuff now, for me it actually works, as does the initial setup with Pierce, and he, Laura and Janet forming an insular "family,." With the Pluto TV episodes we only have started to move into when Broderick takes over with these stories from Corley, and Brooke becomes involved again, and as much as I revere Broderick, I think this is where all of that stuff stops working so well (if that makes sense.)

"I'm glad I didn't buy that little brat a pony."

-- Granny McTavish

@Vee said: "I agree with a lot of this. I think @Darn said it made sense for Kelsey and I was horrified lol. But he may have been right! Megan could just be so crass.

She was the wrong messenger, but I think part of the reason Megan survived so long despite being such a toxic, odious person is not only because she dearly loved and understood certain fundamentals of AMC but also because as Eric notes she was a cynical and highly knowledgeable game player at the network. "

I think this is spot on. (An aside, interestingly in the Kelsey "rape" storyline, McTavish does write "We can bring back the gay friend to help Kelsey realize that she should not have lied about rape. Is he still around. As you know I was against that storyline" I assume she means Kevin Sheffield :P )

"That is capable and impressive. Unlike Agnes and others in the writers room with her who she critiques to Shapiro, et al, Megan doesn't seem to care what story is right or wrong, what leaves a positive impact or is foul and regressive, what makes sense for the characters or which veterans the audience loves; she cares what will bring the show to the top of the heap, what will help it take on Days, what will not make it seem 'old' and leave it in the dust of O.J., etc. There is something to admire in that instinct, though in the end it helped neither AMC nor her career."

Yes! And yeah, I actually appreciate that, I have to admit. Her attitude in general reads as "Well is this sweet story about connection actually going to get us a new audience?" (She makes a point that AMC's legacy has always been younger viewers, and so they should be courting the "MTV generation" to continue that... she's not totally wrong.) I can see why this all put off Wisner Washam so much that he left. I wish Corley would talk to me more about what it was like, but he understandably feels like it's "telling" on his coworkers.

I DO like the desire of Corley and Baldner to redeem Janet, and for me that has always worked (but that also speaks to how I am with storylines like this--I was the kid who when watching Natalie in the well actually thought "well Janet must have had a terrible childhood,...") But I agree, as much as I ultimately often liked the scenes with Janet/Trevor as parents, it was a ridiculous outcome (and I think that's something we can blame on Broderick.) I still think the redemption of Janet, with Laura and Pierce, etc, works--for me, and is good soap writing, and certainly I don't want McT's idea of Janet as a DAYS' Stefano recurring mastervillain.

I stand by being the weirdest teen AMC viewer in the world, I guess, because Brooke remained through the 90s my favourite character :P

OK two gems I have the OK to share--this is just the last two pages of a 10 page letter McTavish wrote to the network in 1995, presumably when Behr was about to fire her, where she spends most of the early pages on a detailed listing of how the AMC ratings have been hugely better, especially the demos (she says it is 1 in demos) since her writing has been on the show (she also says "don't listen to Aggie, my stories were airing from 1991 a year before I was named headwriter.")

1 hour ago, Darn said:

She needed someone who challenged her, someone who appreciated the challenge she brought, not someone who liked her best when she dulled her edges.

Erica's best love interests were Mike Roy and probably Nick Davis, as they challenged yet adored her, but for various reasons I guess those were never happening. I'm still sorry they wasted Mike's return the way they did.

51 minutes ago, Darn said:

The flip soaps have done in the past 15 or so years will never not fascinate me. Being over 40 used to mean your job was in jeopardy, now over 50 vets basically have job security.

We've gone from Phelps telling Jacklyn Zeman that no one wants to see anyone over 40 have sex, to great grandparents leading story while their grandkids sit around twiddling their thumbs. Of course this is a result of their desperation to gain new young viewers so much so that they alienated their existing ones, which in turn made them equally desperate to keep whoever was left.

That actually makes me wonder what AMC would look like now if they'd managed to stay on network on as long as GH has.

I think we were getting the hints in AMC's last 10-15 years. The parade of younger wives continuing for Adam, and Erica never being able to grow up. And a parade of random children like this one for Adam in a story I have no memory of (as I was not really watching heavily anyway):

https://allmychildren.fandom.com/wiki/Miguel_Reyes

And two other pages from the letters I can share since they were apparently ABC wide memos (yes, I had to ask about this lol) This is from the 1999 run as the date shows. And, like before, I actually agree with a number of McTavish's points, and in this case I think she's right to call out the storylines Nixon was pushing for (and would ultimately write, although I do like an awful lot of Nixon's 1999-2000 AMC stuff that I assume she did and not her co-writers.)

10 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

Erica's best love interests were Mike Roy and probably Nick Davis, as they challenged yet adored her, but for various reasons I guess those were never happening. I'm still sorry they wasted Mike's return the way they did.

I think we were getting the hints in AMC's last 10-15 years. The parade of younger wives continuing for Adam, and Erica never being able to grow up. And a parade of random children like this one for Adam in a story I have no memory of (as I was not really watching heavily anyway):

https://allmychildren.fandom.com/wiki/Miguel_Reyes

Oh jeesh, I totally blocked out Miguel from my memory.

I only experienced Erica and Mike Roy when he returned in McTavish's 98-99 run, and I admit I was totally confused who he was or why he was important (later, of course, I realized why he was a fan favourite.)

11 minutes ago, EricMontreal22 said:

OK two gems I have the OK to share--this is just the last two pages of a 10 page letter McTavish wrote to the network in 1995, presumably when Behr was about to fire her, where she spends most of the early pages on a detailed listing of how the AMC ratings have been hugely better, especially the demos (she says it is 1 in demos) since her writing has been on the show (she also says "don't listen to Aggie, my stories were airing from 1991 a year before I was named headwriter.")

Thanks!

Funny that ABC took her advice (I doubt they were taking her advice, it was probably going to happen anyway) about bringing a younger generation in, and viewers gave two thumbs down. I'd say she may have done a better job, but based on her views of Kelsey and Kevin, I don't know.

Interesting to hear Janet had such little fan support. I'm not surprised as the character was not written with a great deal of sympathy, aside from having a horrible mother. Broderick put in a great deal of work on the character.

I didn't know she had planned to kill Del. That would have just been more misery for Dixie, but he was just a lump anyway. (was the second Del around when Dixie returned and "died" in 06-07?) The best I can say about him is Winsor Harmon was a solid enough support for SMG in her last months as they had so brutally isolated Kendall for various reasons and she had no one else.

2 hours ago, Darn said:

There was a short clip in a compliation I watched where Erica is talks about growing up in Pine Valley, describing herself as "a rose amongst the weeds" while doing a faux humble little headshake and it's got to be one of the funniest things I've ever seen. Susan Lucci is truly a singular talent. Daytime has plenty of heroines and vixens and funny characters but Erica managed to be all three and you bought all of them.

OMG, yes, that scene with Mike Roy is quintessential Erica and explains everything you need to know about the character.

41 minutes ago, EricMontreal22 said:

And two other pages from the letters I can share since they were apparently ABC wide memos (yes, I had to ask about this lol) This is from the 1999 run as the date shows. And, like before, I actually agree with a number of McTavish's points, and in this case I think she's right to call out the storylines Nixon was pushing for (and would ultimately write, although I do like an awful lot of Nixon's 1999-2000 AMC stuff that I assume she did and not her co-writers.)

I really enjoyed the 1999–2000 period when Agnes returned full-time. One thing Agnes did exceptionally well—and I've said this here before—was her use of foreshadowing. She was great at planting seeds that paid off later, and she also re-injected the show with a sense of mystery.

I know the Phantom Erica story wasn't everyone's favorite, but I loved it. The audience never actually saw Erica's face, yet characters like Adam and David did. Watching their horrified expressions and reactions to whatever they saw made me incredibly intrigued. It left so much to the imagination, and I thought that was far more effective than showing everything. I love that kind of storytelling.

That whole Miguel thing was so baffling. I guess Broderick or someone wanted to introduce him and then clearly the incoming team did not? I think that was during her brief return tenure in 2010. I do know I rolled my eyes at another soap patriarch having yet another long-lost/Latino child out there. And then it went nowhere lol.

Edited 6 hours ago6 hr by Vee

1 hour ago, EricMontreal22 said:

OK two gems I have the OK to share--this is just the last two pages of a 10 page letter McTavish wrote to the network in 1995, presumably when Behr was about to fire her, where she spends most of the early pages on a detailed listing of how the AMC ratings have been hugely better, especially the demos (she says it is 1 in demos) since her writing has been on the show (she also says "don't listen to Aggie, my stories were airing from 1991 a year before I was named headwriter.")

McTavish has no problem throwing people under the bus. It is hysterically funny.

47 minutes ago, EricMontreal22 said:

And two other pages from the letters I can share since they were apparently ABC wide memos (yes, I had to ask about this lol) This is from the 1999 run as the date shows. And, like before, I actually agree with a number of McTavish's points, and in this case I think she's right to call out the storylines Nixon was pushing for (and would ultimately write, although I do like an awful lot of Nixon's 1999-2000 AMC stuff that I assume she did and not her co-writers.)

Thanks. I missed this one.

There's something amusing and somewhat sad in Megan's letter amounting to, "Yes, you're so right and this is why I am reminding you that you are right unlike everyone else who can't remind you the way I can."

McTavish destroyed Liza/Adam to where by this point I think many viewers had given up on them even before the show did.

She is right about Becca/Scott.

Hayley/Ryan - that pairing always felt like a stall for me and I doubt viewers cared either.

I had forgotten McTavish was even still there for Becca or for the Tad/Dixie stuff.

The Tad and Dixie story actually disgusted me enough to where I stopped watching as regularly - it felt like every man in the Martin family demanding that Dixie have an abortion, and then she had a miscarriage. I think I remember Joe (I think before I said it was Dr. Clader - my apologies to him) walking out with a weird grin on his face at the news of her losing her baby. Clearly that was not intended and was just how Ray looked but it unwittingly summed up how deeply unpleasant I found the story. I never rooted for Dixie/Tad again.

7 minutes ago, Jonathan said:

I really enjoyed the 1999–2000 period when Agnes returned full-time. One thing Agnes did exceptionally well—and I've said this here before—was her use of foreshadowing. She was great at planting seeds that paid off later, and she also re-injected the show with a sense of mystery.

I know the Phantom Erica story wasn't everyone's favorite, but I loved it. The audience never actually saw Erica's face, yet characters like Adam and David did. Watching their horrified expressions and reactions to whatever they saw made me incredibly intrigued. It left so much to the imagination, and I thought that was far more effective than showing everything. I love that kind of storytelling.

The Phantom story had some strong moments and was one of Nixon's better Gothic moments in those final AMC years, like Erica returning to her childhood home and taking a bath with a razor blade nearby. I agree that it was better to not see her scar. My issue with the story was how many times can the show keep regressing Erica and tying her to childhood abuse? And they just kept doing it and doing it to where I think it undercut the core of the character to the point where I didn't recognize her for the last years of the show.

Edited 6 hours ago6 hr by DRW50

1 hour ago, Jonathan said:

I know the Phantom Erica story wasn't everyone's favorite, but I loved it. The audience never actually saw Erica's face, yet characters like Adam and David did. Watching their horrified expressions and reactions to whatever they saw made me incredibly intrigued. It left so much to the imagination, and I thought that was far more effective than showing everything. I love that kind of storytelling.

I actually kinda agree--that was one storyline at the time I liked. (hides)

4 hours ago, EricMontreal22 said:

I actually kinda agree--that was one storyline at the time I liked. (hides)

We will not hide. We will stand visible and proud! 😝