AMC and OLTL Canceled!

[DRW50]

People have been complaining about Frons from the start, but there was nothing that could be done about his employment. ABC wasn't going to fire him because of fan complaints. He knew the right people and no amount of failing would change that.

As for the chuckling, considering the way he acted in that video to the AMC/OLTL cast and crew, I wouldn't be surprised.

[JaneAusten]

IF I were ABC why would I listen to the fan complaints either. If ABC (including Frons) cared for these shows they would have recognized their performance

over the past so many years shown in ratings and perhaps used fan feeback combined with other studies to help determine where the improvements were needed. I am not sure fans are always the best source for this. No one at ABC cared. No one at NBC by the way did either or at CBS. And CBS fired Barbara Bloom recently after securing Y&R and B&B for a couple of additional years. This should tell those fans exactly what CBS's vision for soaps are going forward.

[DRW50]

That's true. I do think that Frons did have a very bad effect on ABC Daytime's ratings over the last 3-4 years, and although I know he supposedly had some skill elsewhere, I would have taken this into consideration. I definitely wouldn't keep him around after the soaps are gone, as his stint at Soapnet was not exactly full of popular relaity programming successes.

[Bella1974]

When Cameron left AMC years ago, I think that he realized that he's not a good actor, and that AMC/ABC are one of the few places that would ever hire him to do anything, so he needed to become a team player.

[JaneAusten]

I'm still not convinced he's long for ABC. I don't think they hold him accountable for the soaps because I don't think they cared and in all fairness to Frons have the ABC shows really fallen any further than the NBC or CBS shows have? But Soapnet is another story. The constant changes to try and make something work then to ultimately have another group at Disney come in with an idea that took hold has to be considered a failure. I don't think the replacement shows failing if they do will be held at Fron's feet but I do think an up and comer at Disney who comes up with something fresh and innovative could kick Frons off his perch.Ultimately thats what ends up happening to the folks on top. Someone younger and fresher comes along and replaces them.

[DRW50]

I guess to me, the ABC soaps should have been different. ABC owned their soaps. That should have meant a way to avoid most of the confusion that plagued CBS and NBC. Instead Frons pushed his disturbed vision all over the lineup even when many fans had had enough (while I know any couple has fans I will never believe that AMC viewers wanted Rylee). If that had not happened and if someone better was in his job then I think the ABC soaps might be doing better.

I guess we'll never know.

[JaneAusten]

See to me I feel totally different. With DOOL you still have Corday involved who is part of the family that started the show right and the Bells still have some influence over Y&R and B&B, With that I would expect those shows to be better than a corporation like Disney or ABC who has no lifelong interest in the shows or love for them. Its not loke Agnes Nixon has been heavily involved in OLTL and AMC. I would expect a more detached corporate feel and thats exactly

whats happened. If anything DOOL and Y&R and B&B should be better and those shows are equally bad.

[DRW50]

I guess I see a corporation as at least trying at competence. I did not like the changes which Disney made to the ABC soaps, but, even with the lower ratings and quality, I think they had competent people until Frons. Frons started out OK but then ran roughshod over the soaps year after year while ABC did nothing. There is no excuse for some of what has gone on with AMC and GH (which were supposed to be their crown jewels) in recent years.

[JaneAusten]

See but it was Disney not necessarily Frons that killed these shows and insisted they all had to have some sense of uniformity. I think Frons followed that directive along with pushing his own personal pets and agendas. THere is no way a corporation is going to have the same love and attachment that an Agnes Nixon would have to her shows. They were her babies. And it still doesn't justify the utter destruction that Corday and the Bells have allowed to their shows. I know some of DOOL's decisions have been driven financially but there is no excuse for allowing the current writing and EP to continue on with as shoddy as the show has been close to a year now. Y&R with MAB has no choice. B&B is probably the only soap still closest to its original identity

[beebs]

Keep in mind though, Corday & the Bells are all second-generation. It's not like it's Betty Corday and Bill Bell helming these shows anymore. Agnes Nixon is really the last of that generation of those creators still alive, and I think the kids just don't have the same imagination or passion that the parents did for these shows, and if they do, they mostly weren't part of any of these shows' brightest moments.

[DRW50]

Oh I'm not justifying anything with Corday or the Bells - although to me the only one with a lick of talent in that family was Bill Bell (and probably Lee), so I'm not exactly surprised at what they have let their soaps become.

But I do think that it's been a disaster to let things like Rylee, or the mob obsession at all costs, go by and not do anything about them. Or to let AMC and GH have the budget problems they have had for years. That's just incompetent. Ignoring problems and ignoring fans walking out the door. Instead they just said, "Look, it's Franco."

[beebs]

I think what gets me is that it seems to have gone so very much under the radar of everyone but the non-rabid fans and some in the press. The fact that no one in the press has even pondered "hmm...maybe it's the writing", or asked some lapsed fans what made them stop watching, really baffles me. Maybe if there had been more people in the press going "it's the writing, stupid", they wouldn't have been able to get away with it. And I don't necessarily mean in the soap press either. I see all these cancellation articles where no one's done any research beyond the typical extrapolations, and it makes me realize how out to lunch a lot of people are, and why ABC has been able to get away with all this without so much as a second look from the mainstream press at their complete and utter incompetence in handling what used to be the network's primary cash cow.

If someone had at least called them on it, maybe things would've changed sooner? Or am I just being naive again?

[DRW50]

The press has always believed the soaps are garbage. So they assume any quality is nonexistent. There is no decline for them. That means they also get to tell lazy stories - and the press today seems lazier than ever - about OJ and women working and endless reruns on cable channels setting housewives free.

If the press had tried to point out how wretched the soaps have become in recent years, then I think it either would have motivated the networks to find better talent, or to cancel the soaps earlier on.

[JaneAusten]

The mainstream press all believe the same "Soaps are dying" mantra. They've been pushing that message for years and they don't care enough.

As for primetime ABC has been a mess for several years but fell under the radar because of NBC's utter incompetence. Its kind of surfaced this season because

NBC is in recovery mode and I think ABC's mismanagement has finally come to light.

[beebs]

Perhaps. Though even the recent coverage seems entirely one-note and lazy, in a way I wasn't expecting. I keep looking for one person to scratch even an inch under the surface, but they don't. I'm assuming Lynn Leahy has/had business-related reasons why she just kept repeating the "OJ and women working" mantra ad nauseum when people interviewed her about the cancellations? Because I can't imagine the soap press weren't seeing what we were seeing, were they?