All this back and forth on gay vs. black is a perfect example of why hanging on to old soaps has killed the genre. If new, forward thinking soaps had been introduced they wouldn't have to deal with the burden of trying to hang on to Grandma who doesn't believe in race mixing, boy-kissing or vampires. Looking at the current situation, it would've been better for NBC/ABC to hang on to the younger, fresher Passions and Port Charles rather than cancel them and try to keep these zombies going. Port Charles would probably be kicking all kinds of ass right now. Instead we have more back from the dead and WTD.

OLTL in fourth place is something that I would've thought I never see happen after ATWT got canceled I thought it would automatically be the sixth place soap but its proved some of us wrong. OLTL seems to have hit a resurgence and oddly enough its come after ATWT left the airwaves.

Isn't it basically just Y&R = 1, B&B = 2, anyone else that given week = 3? I guess I haven't been studying the ratings enough lately, perhaps GH is always 3, but it seems with SON reporting one set of numbers and then SOD coming out with different numbers in regards to counting and not counting what, it can be anyone at No. 3, with Y&R as No. 1 and B&B at No. 2.

I wasn't saying it stopped in 1998. I listed 1998 because that's the last time I remember the issue getting a lot of publicity (because of some of the hate mail sent regarding Neil and Victoria on Y&R). I know it's continued since then, as that's one of the reasons soaps are still so hostile towards interracial relationships.

I know for a fact that Y&R still received a little bit (and I mean 2 or 3 a month) of hate-mail from people in Tennessee and Arkansas and whatnot complaining about "n****r-lovers" because of the Phyllis/Damon pairing. Just as you'll find people here 'n there even on something as modern as a :::gasp!::: computer talking about how GL and ATWT got cancelled when they "started airing stories about homosexuals".

Ignorance is everywhere. It's just a matter of which ignorance is still widely "accepted".

All this back and forth on gay vs. black is a perfect example of why hanging on to old soaps has killed the genre. If new, forward thinking soaps had been introduced they wouldn't have to deal with the burden of trying to hang on to Grandma who doesn't believe in race mixing, boy-kissing or vampires. Looking at the current situation, it would've been better for NBC/ABC to hang on to the younger, fresher Passions and Port Charles rather than cancel them and try to keep these zombies going. Port Charles would probably be kicking all kinds of ass right now. Instead we have more back from the dead and WTD.

Agreed. It'll happen. Eventually. Give it a few more years.

I know for a fact that Y&R still received a little bit (and I mean 2 or 3 a month) of hate-mail from people in Tennessee and Arkansas and whatnot complaining about "n****r-lovers" because of the Phyllis/Damon pairing.

I know Michael Easton has said he was shocked by the hate mail he got from people who hated the John/Van pairing. I remember his comments reminded me of a white guy I dated in college when a couple of his friends made "jokes" about me. Most straight white guys have no experience with being on the receiving end of that kind and level of hatred. Of course it also goes the other way, I've seen some of the posts on AMC's FB page about Frankie/Madison and some of the things my "sistas" say about SG (not Madison but her portrayer) makes me ill.

Soaps have chosen to appeal to the lowest common denominator and nothing is lower than racism, homophobia and misogyny.

Edited October 22, 201015 yr by marceline

Saving ATWT, if you think having gay characters on soaps always means audiences will tune out--what do you suggest they do to get viewers to tune in? Cuz they've not thought of anything else... Cuz maybe viewers are tuning out for these stories, but I don't see them significantly tuning in when the stories are gone, not to the amount that warrants it anyway.

I know Michael Easton has said he was shocked by the hate mail he got from people who hated the John/Van pairing. I remember his comments reminded me of a white guy I dated in college when a couple of his friends made "jokes" about me. Most straight white guys have no experience with being on the receiving end of that kind and level of hatred. Of course it also goes the other way, I've seen some of the posts on AMC's FB page about Frankie/Madison and some of the things my "sistas" say about SG (not Madison but her portrayer) makes me ill.

Soaps have chosen to appeal to the lowest common denominator and nothing is lower than racism, homophobia and misogyny.

Exactly.

Agnes Nixon talked about some of the hate mail they got over Tom/Livia, but she said that for every letter of hate, they got two of support--plus she pointed out (and I think this is still largely true) that even those who hated it, if they told the story well, they rarely went through with tuning out.

Edited October 22, 201015 yr by EricMontreal22

Race is also manipulated into an emotional wedge issue. Race-baiting and open loathing of black people and spreading of ugly stereotyping about black people has become very popular, and is almost taken for granted now. Hostility against Latinos isn't far behind.

Obama's election was the cold slap of reality to the white power structure. Non-whites will be the majority population over the next few decades and the white power structure is screaming in outrage at that fact. They won't stop screaming either. It will get worse as that reality sinks in.

Considering the current anti-immigration disgusting ads going on in Arizona and the Tancredos/Limbaughs with their mega phones, there's just as much open hostility against Latinos as AAs.

OLTL in fourth place is something that I would've thought I never see happen after ATWT got canceled I thought it would automatically be the sixth place soap but its proved some of us wrong. OLTL seems to have hit a resurgence and oddly enough its come after ATWT left the airwaves. Every soap board that I go to the hot topic is something about OLTL, its been a long time since its had that type of attention. OLTL's positive sign from last week was its ratings on Friday which had been a piss poor day for it during the week the last month or so. Obviously that carried over into this past Monday but not sure how its going to hold up the rest of the week just yet. The cool thing about OLTL is that they have a sweeps type storyline playing out right now and its still October not November show it just shows you how good the writing is for the show right now.

I think OLTL's resurgence is an example that viewers are out there who will flock back to a show if it improves. OLTL the last 3 weeks has been faster paced, better directed and more tightly written too. RC has also resurrected the big Friday cliffhangers that have fans buzzing all weekend. There's a lot more posts about what will happen than I've seen in months on OLTL boards.

As for the other soaps specifically on ABC, GH has been pretty high and its been high consistently it was not that long ago when it was reaching close to last place. I don't know what to think of Marcil's impact on the show since the ratings were already up before she got there but she's not hurting the show that's for sure.

GH is down a net 37,000 viewers since Marcil returned. She's not hurting GH ratings but she's certainly not the big ratings winner she was in 2003 for GH.

AMC on the other hand is a mess right now and has been for sometime.

AMC seems to be following ATWT's demo pattern. No matter what stories or characters they feature, their demos don't move out of last place. The gains in viewership are rarely coming from 18-49 females.

I know for a fact that Y&R still received a little bit (and I mean 2 or 3 a month) of hate-mail from people in Tennessee and Arkansas and whatnot complaining about "n****r-lovers" because of the Phyllis/Damon pairing. Just as you'll find people here 'n there even on something as modern as a :::gasp!::: computer talking about how GL and ATWT got cancelled when they "started airing stories about homosexuals".

Ignorance is everywhere. It's just a matter of which ignorance is still widely "accepted".

A majority of American, including the President, are against equal rights for gays to marry or serve in the army. Many states have gone so far as to ban gay marriage. I'm gay, enjoyed NUKE and LURE, and would love to get married but am well aware a majority of my fellow citizens seem determined to stop me. I do think 'GL and ATWT got cancelled when they "started airing stories about homosexuals"' because I've experienced homophobia, read the polls, and get that we are a nation of hypocrites. You know nothing about me so don't call me ignorant. I get really annoyed when straight people think they know homophobia better than gays--Its condescending and yet another form of homophobia. I take this personal, have a chip on my shoulder, 'cause I've met and interacted with people who would swiftly flip off a soap with gay characters. Guessing you live in a liberal area, know nice people, however, this is a big country and you should try stepping out of your bubble and learning something.

Also, this isn't gays v's race. They are very different issues and economics plays a large role regarding how the networks handle each. Networks try to drive away low income demos in the hopes of charging more for advets. It can be racist, ignorant and harmful but that seems to be the nature of capitalism.

BTW, your corny bumper sticker cliche is also rather condescending

I actually agree with SFK, AMC the past while has offered me glimpses of the AMC I loved--this year for the first time in a while. But it does seem like no matter what they do, they can't get out of the demo rut.

A majority of American, including the President, are against equal rights for gays to marry or serve in the army. Many states have gone so far as to ban gay marriage. I'm gay, enjoyed NUKE and LURE, and would love to get married but am well aware a majority of my fellow citizens seem determined to stop me. I do think 'GL and ATWT got cancelled when they "started airing stories about homosexuals"' because I've experienced homophobia, read the polls, and get that we are a nation of hypocrites. You know nothing about me so don't call me ignorant. I get really annoyed when straight people think they know homophobia better than gays--Its condescending and yet another form of homophobia. I take this personal, have a chip on my shoulder, 'cause I've met and interacted with people who would swiftly flip off a soap with gay characters. Guessing you live in a liberal area, know nice people, however, this is a big country and you should try stepping out of your bubble and learning something.

Also, this isn't gays v's race. They are very different issues and economics plays a large role regarding how the networks handle each. Networks try to drive away low income demos in the hopes of charging more for advets. It can be racist, ignorant and harmful but that seems to be the nature of capitalism.

BTW, your corny bumper sticker cliche is also rather condescending

Darling, I was totally on your side the entire time I've been reading this thread, but whatever. Like I said, I agree with you and what you're trying to convey to others. It's still much more socially accepted to be homophobic and make homophobic statements than to be racist. That was *my* point.

P.S. I couldn't be more gay if my name was Gay Gayerson, to quote the fabulous Roseanne Barr.

Edited October 22, 201015 yr by Gray Bunny

Obama's election was the cold slap of reality to the white power structure. Non-whites will be the majority population over the next few decades and the white power structure is screaming in outrage at that fact. They won't stop screaming either. It will get worse as that reality sinks in.

Considering the current anti-immigration disgusting ads going on in Arizona and the Tancredos/Limbaughs with their mega phones, there's just as much open hostility against Latinos as AAs.

+1

The white, str8, 'tradionalist' rage has only just begun and will get more dangerous. I'm over people ignoring reality because it feels good. Sick of cliched bumper sticker quotes while 5 people in one week get gay bashed in freakin' NYC. Our liberal city has had 4 race bias crimes over the last month. I can only imagine how bad things are in the conservative regions of the nation.

Soaps handle race and sexuality different for capitalist economic reasons but maybe soaps are dying because the old white power structure is falling down yet the soaps we see are vinatage 1980

A majority of American, including the President, are against equal rights for gays to marry or serve in the army.

Actually Obama is for the repeal of Don't Ask, Don't Tell. He just sides with Gates that they need the military brass on board to implement a true attitude change from top to bottom there. Obama also signed the Matthews Sheppard law. He's the most pro LGBT president we've ever had but he can't wave a magic wand and change a culture overnight.

I feel for you, SavingATWT, as I have gay friends here in Mass who feel the pace of change is too slow. It always is too slow but that's not any consolation to those suffering now.

Darling, I was totally on your side the entire time I've been reading this thread, but whatever. Like I said, I agree with you and what you're trying to convey to others. It's still much more socially accepted to be homophobic and make homophobic statements than to be racist. That was *my* point.

P.S. I couldn't be more gay if my name was Gay Gayerson, to quote the fabulous Roseanne Barr.

Okay, didn't know you were family. I'm sure you get annoyed, too, when str* people act like us homos finally have equality. I've lived with, been raised by, been neighbors with, worked for, work with, been friends with, and had sex with 'socially conservative' who can not handle gay story. I'm also getting tired of gays who are shocked by homophobic TV viewing patterns.

I'm pleased to meet you, Gay Gayerson

+1

The white, str8, 'tradionalist' rage has only just begun and will get more dangerous. I'm over people ignoring reality because it feels good. Sick of cliched bumper sticker quotes while 5 people in one week get gay bashed in freakin' NYC. Our liberal city has had 4 race bias crimes over the last month. I can only imagine how bad things are in the conservative regions of the nation.

An AA president represented the first proof of a real wave of change and US tends to go through dangerous upheavals before accepting major change.