Dallas 2.0: Discussion Thread

[Khan]

Same. DALLAS, which David Paulsen describes in one interview as a "cartoon," became even more so in the last couple years; and FALCON CREST essentially evolved into an action/adventure series with minimal involvement in the wine industry once the original formula grew stale and ratings started dropping. But KNOTS always was KNOTS, even with Latham and Lechowick aboard. Its structure (of telling stories about "everyday" people caught up in circumstances far out of their control) and its values remained intact from start to finish; and for that amazing level of consistency, I have to give credit to David Jacobs.

If not for budgetary concerns, KNOTS could have lasted twenty years, no question. (As it stands, fourteen seasons and only one that most fans would agree was bad from beginning to end? Not even the original "Law & Order" can make that claim.)

Miss Ellie in the nut house? Really?

[Khan]

But can we honestly say that DALLAS, under the leadership of Leonard Katzman and others, retained that dynamic? As I've said before, once Jacobs had moved on, it seemed as if everything, including the "Barnes vs. Ewing" aspect, ran second to Bobby & J.R.'s rivalry; and more specifically, to J.R. and his outrageous antics.

Don't get me wrong: I enjoyed the J.R./Bobby relationship, too. Again, though, remember whose story DALLAS was intended to have been: not Bobby's, and certainly not J.R.'s, but Pamela's. A Capulet lost among the Montagues, if you will. DALLAS was to have been Pam's personal odyssey, sort of like what "Revenge" is now, with J.R. as her constant nemesis.

[quartermainefan]

Dallas was great up until Jock died, and remained very good right up until Bobby died. What it was intended to be doesn't mean what it works best being. Considering how Dallas became the most popular TV drama perhaps ever being what it was, I think the writers got it right. Sue Ellen started out as a minor, nothing role. They see something work and adjust. JR worked and the show adjusted.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

I really hope Gary, Val, and the twins never show up/stay for extended periods on TNT's Dallas.

Their legacy is Knots Landing, not Dallas, even if a Knots reboot is never made.

Please keep the twins especially in the Cul-de-Sac, not Southfork.

I absolutely love that Bobby Ewing is still dead in the Knots Landing universe. I will always respect Knots for never becoming a parody of itself like Dallas, Dynasty, and Falcon Crest did.

[Soapsuds]

I was looking/analyzing the ratings for the Knots and the other soaps last night. I noticed that Knots wasn't a huge hit as I once thought. I believe it only cracked the top 10 once in its run. And the rest of the time was in the 20's and 30's in the ratings for the various years. Even their last show only mustered 19 million in viewers while Dallas last show had 33 million viewers. Dallas numbers were bigger than any of the other soaps. Even Knots had horrible last couple of years...and yes if it wasnt for money the show would have lasted longer but really it was painful to watch the last few years. The Latham and Lechowick years were hated by most of the cast especially Mills and Van Ark. Only Michele Lee love Latham and Lechowick's material. Mills and Van Ark prefered Peter Dunne's writing during their time at Knots. Say what you may of Dallas but people still returned at the end.......

[dragonflies]

IMO I always felt that Dallas was more of a name brand than Knots or Dynasty. Even people who've never watched Dallas knows what it is, the same really can't be said of the others.

I loved Knots, I didn't get into till in the 90's my grandma used to watch it and she got me hooked on it

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Knots Landing was never the pop culture phenomenon that Dallas and Dynasty were, it was more a sleeper hit that you could always return to and feel like you were at home. Even when the show wasn't at its best, it was still better and more consistent than the Dallas and Dynasty were at their worst.

However, it never had the sudden dramatic season to season ratings tumbles that Dallas and Dynasty endured during their last years. More people were always going to return for Dallas' final episode, but the show finished that last season outside of the top 60 in the ratings, Knots never rated that low for a season.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

I guess all one had to do was compare the series finales to see how differently the shows respected their audiences.

Dallas ended with a mirror devil haunting JR into [seemingly] shooting himself.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/-0GmvctvEb0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Knots ended with Abby's grand return where they all realized that the more things changed, they also remained the same.

Too bad this is in German, but you get the point. 3:20 in:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/hGQuLl8vewk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Soapsuds]

I loved them all even awful The Colbys....lol

Just finished watching the Wedding Masacar on Dynasty....LOL....how anyone survived that is beyond me.....lol...now on to Season 6 DVD I got in the mail .....and then the Dallas Marathon is going on right now..what to do....lol

[Soapsuds]

Oh The Knots ending was much better. Dallas was known for their cliffhangers and you knew Katzman was going to go down without leaving fans with one. I didnt care for the last episode at all. I liked how Knots ending came back full circle as they say....right where they started at the beginning of course without a few former neighbors who have left or died.

[dragonflies]

I'm watching the Dallas marathon

I thought the last years of Knots were great in comparison to the last like 6 years or so of Dallas, but overall again IMO Dallas is a bigger name. I really can't see a continuation of Knots doing that well

[Y&RWorldTurner]

I hope they leave Knots alone, as I have no faith in TNT.

Just keep the twins, Gary, and Val in the Knots Landing universe, as I do not want them consumed by this show...

[Khan]

Granted, DALLAS was far more character-driven than DYNASTY or FALCON CREST...but DALLAS' season finales -- forget the series finale, we're talking about how the show wrapped up each season -- tended to be flashier and more stunt-ish than KNOTS'. There's "Who Shot J.R.," of course, but there's also when Cliff found Kristin's body in the pool, the Southfork fire, Bobby's "death," Pam's collision with the oil tanker, etc. KNOTS had a few of those -- the "Wolfbridge Group" climax and Karen's high-speed chase with the teenaged paintballers (LOL!) come to mind -- but their more successful cliffhangers tended to be the "quieter" ones, like Val's learning her twins were alive, and Karen realizing Diana has left home with Chip Roberts (whom had just been "outed" to the audience as Ciji's killer, I think).

ETA: Yep, I spelled Kristin with an "e" rather than two "i"'s. Perhaps I got that cliffhanger mixed up in my head with DAYS' "Killing Pool" saga?

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Hell Falcon Crest had a better series finale than Dallas or Dynasty.

You know you've stayed a few years too late at the party when fuckin' Falcon Crest bests you at anything...

[Khan]

You're right. I mean, when it's all said and done, DALLAS was what it was. Speculating what it might have been had things gone Jacobs' way, and whether or not that would have been better than what America and the rest of the world got, is just that: speculation. I realize, though, how it appears as if I was not a fan of Katzman's interpretation of DALLAS -- which is certainly not the case. The truth is, I always have been a tremendous fan of this show, and always will be. Do I think DALLAS as-it-was had serious flaws? Yes. And I think adhering more to Jacobs' original vision for his creation might have resolved those flaws, too. Overall, though, what Katzman and his writers gave us instead definitely worked, which is why the show always holds a special place in my heart, right next to KNOTS and most of the P&G daytime soaps.