Congress passes landmark health care bill

[FrenchFan]

In France, we can't even understand how people can be opposed to Health care as we have been living with this for 50 years and this is the best thing ever.

[dragonflies]

Wow we agree JP

It does need reform, but not this. I'm all for making healthcare affordable, but this isn't going to do it.

I can't even get medicaid. I work full time, and live paycheck to paycheck. I can't get any kind of help, like Medicaid for medical bills unless I have kids.

Seriously WTF? Isn't that encouraging people to have kids. People like me who can't get their heads above water(so to speak), and don't have kids, are pretty much on our own

[NorrthCafe]

I've never understood the argument that social programs encourage larger family sizes, the data just don't bear that out. What good will it do to have a child just to have access to health care (or welfare, or housing, etc) when the cost of everything else increases disproportionately to that? Poor people are poor, not stupid (not to say that you're saying they are, just a general comment). Their average family sizes aren't that much different from the rest of us.

What part of the bill won't lead to improved health care costs and services? I've never seen an argument that's tied to what's actually in the bill. I'm admitting that I haven't read the whole thing, yet, but I've at least read and I'm still tearing through two much shorter documents - the 25 page letter from the CBO to Pelosi, the CBO letter to Paul Ryan (that one is only about 5 pages and reaffirms the statements about deficit reduction but adds some comments about his interest in the HI fund which I'm still not yet following - I don't have enough pieces to figure out the significance of that request). They're relatively brief, but weighty. I'm not an economist so it's slower going for me. Anyone who already gets it, please help, LOL!

Those docs can be found here: http://www.cbo.gov/publications/collections/health.cfm Statements from the CBO letter on the 18th to the Pelosi:

and

The Revised CBO estimate is now at 143 billion in the next decade: http://www.speaker.gov/blog/?p=2203

This bill accounts for those who aren't impoverished, but who aren't able to just yet move up in income in this tough economy. Health care is subsidized for individuals who don't qualify for other programs, but still can't afford to carry insurance. If the CBO says that the program is paid for, and reduces the deficit by over 1.3 trillion over the next couple of decades, improves health care delivery to approximately 94+% of the population...where specifically are the problems with this bill?

[DeeeDee]

Racism, Sexism & Classism are ugly things.

[Adam]

I don't believe the bill will do much of anything to help the people that really need it... many of the uninsured simply can't afford it and now they are being forced to pay for it?

Universal health care is in EVERY western industrialized country.... what the hell is wrong with the American public to not want it...

Waste of time.... Obama has done nothing here to fix this, and I knew he wouldn't. The Republicans will take control of the houses in November, kill this bill and the status quo will remain with millions of Americans unable to afford life saving health care and thousands will die.

SOCIALISM, it will get you....

[NorrthCafe]

ICAM... They're so ugly that even some of the -ism's victims buy into them and into the arguments that are used to deny equal rights and care to all.

[DeeeDee]

Exactly.

It's amazing how bumper sticker rhetoric & xenophobia will get people to vote against their interest every time.

[GoldenDogs]

Norrth... the problem is the CBO "assumes" that all monies to be raised via tax increases, Medicare cuts, etc., will in fact come in. The money just isn't there to pay for this and nobody can say that it WILL be there in the years to come. Another assumption is made that what funds WILL be raised to pay for this will be left in the bank untouched until the program really kicks in.

Honestly, who here truly believes that the US Congress will NOT pull from health care funds to subsidize some other program in need, or an unexpected disaster, or a war... ?? As an American citizen and taxpayer, I'm asked to trust that MY GOVERNMENT will handle a program this large effectively, fairly, and without shady dealings?

GIVE ME A FREAKIN' BREAK.

Medicare barely works. Medicaid isn't much better. Social Security is broke. Even the damned US Postal Service is withering away. There are tax cheaters galore (a good number of them in the Obama Administration!) who routinely work around an already overwhelmed IRS. Social programs in America have always been thrashed and trashed by abusers who exploit the inefficiences of government-managed operations or raid the bank and steal from within to suck funds dry.

It won't work. Similar programs have never worked. This program will never work. This program will likely never be funded appropriately if at all.

Then what? Then who pays for it?

People are out of work. People are out of their homes. The economy is in tatters. And now we're presented with a $143 Billion program legislators ASSUME we'll fund down the road.

Wow. Just... WOW! The sheer scope of outrageousness, stupidity, and irresponsibility of our legislators is amazing. I shouldn't be surprised, I suppose, but I can't help being overwhelmed by it.

Why not fix insolvent programs currently assisting those in need first before creating another?

And that isn't even speaking yet of the very simple fact that our representative government ignored the majority and failed to represent, possibly passing a piece of legislation that may not stand a constitutional test in court. And then those same representatives wonder why the people are upset and outraged? They can't imagine why the public might wish them ill and go so far out of the realm of acceptable behavior as to hurl threats or insults?

This whole thing is well beyond discussions of how and why elements of the health care system in America need fixing and/or replacing... I think the issue more so now is how and why elements of the American political system need fixing and/or replacing.

[Toups]

Yeah, it really is the best thing. I can't understand the opposition either.

It sure is.

I feel bad for Americans when it comes to health care, especially those millions who don't have it.

[NorrthCafe]

BRIAN!!!! I still miss WOST, DEARLY (my all time fave soap site!) If you ever decide to reopen it, I'll be there. There's a need for soap history now more than ever.

As for HCR, of course the CBO uses estimates and projections, they can only project the potential of any bill. No one can guarantee an outcome, but Obama, Pelosi, Reid, Hoyer, and others have been smart in amending the bill to incorporate those ideas that would this bill a better bill (discussed more below). We agree that legislators have been largely wasteful. They've played politics and thought about policy in terms of what they needed to do to 1 - maintain power as a block (Dems vs. Cons) and 2 - retain their seats in their own districts. I think it's worked exactly in that order, until HCR - at least on the Dems side. Truthfully, it's the voters' fault it happens. We keep returning the same lying sacks to office each and every time. Look at what's happening in Vitter's district. YIKES!!!!

The interesting thing about the Cons castigating the CBO is that we all know that the CBO has been used by BOTH parties, who wait to have legislation scored before deciding on moving forward or to amend a bill. The GOP had NO PROBLEM touting the work of the CBO when it released an unfavorable report of the first iteration of the HCR bill. None... not a bit.. in fact, they argued that the CBO's numbers suggested that they shouldn't move forward on reform. Now that the CBO's numbers are favorable to reform they should be discarded?

If you read those reports I posted earlier, you'll see what percentage of the HCR Bill is based on cleaning up the waste in Medicare and Medicaid. I think these numbers are also encouraging and bode well for the CBO's predictions, speaking of jobs and recovery:

EPI.ORG

You have to remember that the GOP didn't campaign on the idea that HCR wasn't needed. Now it's what they want to do for the American public, they claim... We're to ignore that it was never on the agenda for them when they were in power. They KNEW HCR was needed, not just a 'socialist wish list item'. The data tell us that our economy would have been shuttered based on HC costs alone and that even a significant part of our Defense spending was actually health care related (was it up to 40%? I can't remember). Cons now claim that they wanted to create a 'better' HC bill, but offered nothing other than the great big NO and claims of 'feeling the pain' of the poor and uninsured. It's wrong to give those who are currently uninsured the same plan as the half-a-work-day GOPers who oppose this bill, but haven't given back THEIR government funded health care?

How many of them also collect social security while railing against it? I know they can collect a pension post office, but I believe they can collect SS also. Doesn't McCain, who swore not to cooperate on ANY of the nation's business the rest of this year, get a SS check? I'm not sure but if he does, he owns 11 freakin' homes and so many cars he doesn't know how many. If any of them are using federally funded services, they're certainly not shy about helping to make systems insolvent and then rail against them.

Obama's point, and that of the Dems, is to FIX the broken systems, not shutter them all away because they're not working.

[GoldenDogs]

Thanks for the kind words, Norrth... But WoST is only a memory and will remain that.

With regard to health care, I appreciate your passion on the topic, but you did not respond to the issue of cost of this bill... and the fact that we simply cannot afford another large social program at this time.

There is no question that there are aspects of our health care system that need to be examined, studied, fixed, etc. But passing a bill this large to address an issue that is NOT a major concern for a large majority at a time when we cannot afford it just doesn't make sense to me.

Please explain to me why existing social programs that are failing (and operate in a similar manner) shouldn't be fixed before attempting another on an even larger scale? Why cover those of us who don't need the benefits of such a program? Why not start small and cover only those who need the coverage? And why was it necessary to do this in such defiance of an obvious majority (and not a small one) who didn't want it this way at this point in time?

I firmly believe Democrats will pay dearly in November. They deserve whatever they get. And especially if they ram Cap & Trade and Immigration Reform and some crazy Global Warming agenda through before November. Let's be honest, the public at large did not bargain for this type of hope and change and a large majority of Americans, both Republicans and Democrats, have had enough of it.

[SnCCorinthos4ever]

In the past few year's I have had two overnight hospital stay's and with Medicare & my private Health insurance I didn't have to pay a cent. I also had a biopsy done on my throat total out of pocket cost for that was $60.00.

With my glasses the first time I only had to pay $46.00 dollar's (both for Computer/reading & long distance) after Medicare, Private Health Insurance and the fact that under Health and Occupational Saftey rules here for workplace's my employee also had to pay for the glasses that were work related otherwise I am usually $0.00 out of pocket as well.

With OH&S we need to have our eye's tested every two years, this is bulk billed to Medicare and is no cost to the person going for the test.

Yes we have to pay for medicare but the cost all depends on what our annual Taxable income is for example if my final taxable annual salary is $50,000.00 I pay 1.5% (about $750)of that to Medicare, but that amount is taken out of my refund if there is any. Also I can claim as a rebate 30% of what I have paid to my Private Health insurance so if I have paid $2,945.00 over the year I can claim back $883.00 and that will be added to my refund.

And we only need to do one tax return, we don't have State and Federal, we have just Federal.

[NorrthCafe]

I have a pretty nasty cold, hence the luxury of all day posting instead of working, LOL. I could have sworn I responded to your post, Brian. My brain is fried. I wasn't being rude in not answering the cost question, I thought I'd addressed it above -- too tired to look <argh> and thought you might have seen it. The letters from the CBO to Honorable Rep. Pelosi and Honorable Rep. Ryan (snicker accordingly folks) give the details about funding but it includes half or more than half of the cost comes from cleaning up the excess and waste in Medicare and Medicaid. There is that increased tax on high premium plans that increases the rate from 2.9 to 3.8 % on couples making 250K, 200k for singles. I've heard that a family of five can't live in some places on 250k.. I'd love to give it a try and find out if that's true. We'll (hopefully) lower defense spending too, since so much of it is related to rising health care costs.

Doing nothing now means more people are going to be uninsured and that will happen SOON - we're all too comfortable thinking that if we have insurance now we'll keep it. Employers are struggling to pay the costs of insurance now because nothing has been done to reign in the cost of health care. Health care analysts are projecting 53 million uninsured by 2019 (WOWZA).

If you have insurance, you're not being covered by this plan (other than the fact that you have to maintain the insurance you have). That's one of the big 'untruths' that have been pushed. You keep the insurance you have. You keep your plan, your physician, etc. The federal government is going to help cover those who can't cover themselves.

Medicare/Medicaid/HCR are linked, for better or worse, it's better to try to fix them at the same time, than do nothing or fix part of the problem and leave the costs to run wild in the other cases. It can't be done piecemeal and done effectively.

I don't share your belief that the Dems are done for in Nov. If things keep progressing as they are and the economic trends keep heading in the direction they're going, all the Dems have to do is not screw up -- which is incredibly hard for them.

New jobless claims are DOWN... first time in the last six weeks.

Health related stocks went UP the day after HCR passed (and I just read an article that said the same was true after Medicaid was passed in '65)

Employers are beginning to hire.

The GOP is refusing to work after 2pm as a protest against HCR. This I just don't get.

The GOP abandoned financial reform (BIGGER mistake than refusing to get involved in HCR and that was bad enough).

People are beginning to learn that HCR wasn't made of the crazy stuff they'd heard it was about.

Your kids are covered until 26, and they can't be denied coverage for pre-existing conditions? No lifetime caps?

And then there's THIS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmlgwwCHof8

Thank you, John Boehner. I can't stop laughing every time I watch it!

[DeeeDee]

Bush & The Repubs sure didn't shutter the war away.

[GoldenDogs]

Ohhhh, Norrth... I think the world of you - always have - but I do disagree!

A seasonally-adjusted average which doesn't mean much, except for Democrats who are trying to convince the rest of the country that the worst isn't yet to come, and we all know that it is. We haven't hit bottom yet, as indicated by recent housing market numbers...

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/existing-home-sales-fall-for-3rd-straight-month-2010-03-23

I'm sure pharmaceutical stocks were up... they long ago mined a sleazy backdoor deal with the Obama Administration to their benefit in exchange for support of the legislation.

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/aug/14/nation/na-health-pharma14

I'm not impressed. Liberals were pissed over this deal, too, as Obama gave too much away to these companies.

With regard to financial reform, we're in the mess because key Democrats on key committees (hello, Barney Frank?) ignored the impending housing disaster and refused to react to warning signs and calls that the market was on the verge of a collapse.

http://realestaterecord.blogspot.com/2008/05/barney-frank.html

But that's just one example... I could go on, but don't want to.

You know as well as I do that Republicans offered health care alternatives... pleas to open up more market competition by allowing health care insurers to offer their products across state lines was roundly ignored.

Yes, both parties have problems and have behaved irresponsibly. But the good news for Democratic defenders is that this is ALL on them. There is nothing here, despite your best attempts, Norrth, to blame Republicans for. This is Obama's economy now, and this is his bill. Good or bad, right or wrong, it's all his badge to wear. If Americans are pleased with what he's done, we're assured more of the same in November. If Americans feel he's really went down a nasty path, Democrats will pay big in November.

Anyways... how have you been? I haven't talked with you in ages!!! I take it you're still doing your B&B columns, etc.?