The wheels are starting to fall off the Y&R bus again. Perhaps if they actually knew how to tell a story, they might be more consistent.

The wheels are starting to fall off the Y&R bus again. Perhaps if they actually knew how to tell a story, they might be more consistent.

So simple but yet apparently so hard to do. I am one of those 355,000 that did not watch all of that week and I was home sick..but thank heavens for cable and other interesting and entertaining things to watch. I read about the show now and then decide if it is worth watching. They played quite a bit of the vets this past week (still crappy stories) so I hope it trends up a bit.

Edited January 23, 201015 yr by JimTolkien

So simple but yet apparently so hard to do. I am one of those 355,000 that did not watch all of that week. I read about the show now and then decide if it is worth watching. They played quite a bit of the vets this past week (still crappy stories) so I hope it trends up a bit.

Those demos are so close with all the shows aside from Y&R. I wonder if CBS will reconsider cancelling ATWT or may it actually have a chance elsewhere.

Does anyone know approximately how much ATWT is making for CBS compared to Y&R and B&B? And if NBC and Days could not come to terms for renewal, with CBS cancelling ATWT would they actually consider replacing one soap with another?

And I really wish I believed quality had a thing to do with ratings. It's 90 percent promotion and I'm sure that's what led to AMC's recent ratings surge.

Edited January 23, 201015 yr by JaneAusten

The wheels are starting to fall off the Y&R bus again. Perhaps if they actually knew how to tell a story, they might be more consistent.

I don't believe that quality has much to do with the ratings as a rule. Besides, Y&R is the only soap whose demos have held over the last few months.

I don't believe that quality has much to do with the ratings as a rule. Besides, Y&R is the only soap whose demos have held over the last few months.

It's not so much about quality as about telling a story. You can tell a not great story with good pacing. Y&R's stories are rotgut in pacing. They tell bad stories at a bad pace. Major reveals are rushed and treated as meaningless.

The show is starting to go near the levels they were at in mid-2008 again. I'm sure they will go up again but with all the constant stunts Y&R does, it's pathetic that they are not doing better, even in demos.

I don't believe that quality has much to do with the ratings as a rule. Besides, Y&R is the only soap whose demos have held over the last few months.

True about Y&R's demo holding steady which in light of everything that's rather good. I agree with your comment about quality...but the fact that we can say with such ease that quality does not have much to do with ratings is a rather jarring reality to face. If one puts out a product where you have competition, I don't see how it can survive in the long run if Quality is not a main factor.

I always thought that because the show doesn't promote very well (which they don't)is one of the reasons but IMO why would they even bother, I don't believe the genre is that much of a draw that could pull in a lot of new viewers to the genre to sustain itself.

And I just saw your last comment..I myself am shocked that the ratings are not going through the roof either but then again I haven't found any of the stunts the least bit entertaining or exciting which probably explains why the ratings are not going through the roof LOL!! I think this show has forgotten what type of viewing audience Y&R has.

Edited January 23, 201015 yr by JimTolkien

What we have seen is that promotion doesn't bring in viewers unless it is directly related to a stunt or sweeps event and if the viewers do come, they generally don't stay. While quality contributes to the demo slippage that we see, I think that it is mostly external events beyond the control of the soaps. For instance, Allison Sweeney's hosting the popular Biggest Loser likely helps Days' ratings.

Well it seems the ratings have returned to normal....They arent too bad. Glad GH is at number 4 again..

And WOW at AMC being dead last in demos....If they end up staying down there, that shiny new studio in LA wont get much use.

Those demos are so close with all the shows aside from Y&R. I wonder if CBS will reconsider cancelling ATWT or may it actually have a chance elsewhere.

Does anyone know approximately how much ATWT is making for CBS compared to Y&R and B&B? And if NBC and Days could not come to terms for renewal, with CBS cancelling ATWT would they actually consider replacing one soap with another?

And I really wish I believed quality had a thing to do with ratings. It's 90 percent promotion and I'm sure that's what led to AMC's recent ratings surge.

It's not so much about quality as about telling a story.

Quality also has little to do with it. Soaps have varied in quality ("golden eras" and such), but even AMC (which just went apparently through a down period) really didn't decline at a faster rate than the average soap--not meaningfully so, anyway. Other factors drive the trend, and quality/pacing/storytelling/promotion all just influence short-term and weekly up-and-down trends. The main downward trend has NOTHING to do with these factors. (It's demographic, and it's driven by what is happening to broadcast TV overall).

Edited January 23, 201015 yr by MarkH

Other factors drive the trend, and quality/pacing/storytelling/promotion all just influence short-term and weekly up-and-down trends.

I think pacing and storytelling do a lot more than just influence weekly trends. If not for Bill Bell's ability to tell a story, DAYS probably would have not had a big ratings increase which saved it from cancellation in 66-67, and Y&R probably would have never lasted. Good pacing and storytelling is key to a show's survival. If Bell had not phased out the Fosters and the Brooks so expertly while increasing the roles of other families, the ratings may never have gone back up and hit #1.

Writing long term is the antithesis of trends, and when the long term plans are good enough, they can sometimes bring in the numbers and sustain them. Y&R gained a lot of viewers back during the time so many were hyping the show as having some glorious revival (summer 2008/early 2009).

Good pacing and storytelling is a key part of anything, not just daytime. There's a reason why shows like Heroes fall off a cliff and keep falling further, and it's not just changing demographics or primetime is dying or any of that. This also influences cable, and film (notice how quickly box office takings for The Matrix sequels fell off a cliff).

Edited January 23, 201015 yr by CarlD2

I would definitely tune back in Y&R even with CK still on there. If Victor gets his. & Abbotts win for once against the Newmans.

I think pacing and storytelling do a lot more than just influence weekly trends. If not for Bill Bell's ability to tell a story, DAYS probably would have not had a big ratings increase which saved it from cancellation in 66-67, and Y&R probably would have never lasted. Good pacing and storytelling is key to a show's survival. If Bell had not phased out the Fosters and the Brooks so expertly while increasing the roles of other families, the ratings may never have gone back up and hit #1.

Writing long term is the antithesis of trends, and when the long term plans are good enough, they can sometimes bring in the numbers and sustain them. Y&R gained a lot of viewers back during the time so many were hyping the show as having some glorious revival (summer 2008/early 2009).

Good pacing and storytelling is a key part of anything, not just daytime. There's a reason why shows like Heroes fall off a cliff and keep falling further, and it's not just changing demographics or primetime is dying or any of that. This also influences cable, and film (notice how quickly box office takings for The Matrix sequels fell off a cliff).

But on daytime, do you really think these factors can matter?

Look at DOOL. They are the "miracle". Sure enough, they won back hundreds of thousands of viewers. So I think that credits the kind of phenomenon you talk about.

But it is ONLY hundreds of thousands. Over past decades, they have lost millions, and those folks are never coming back.

So this is my point. If Bill Bell were to "save" DOOL today, he might gain a half-million viewers. But the numbers would keep falling and falling from there, because the bottom is dropping out of commercial TV and out of daytime.

I don't doubt at all that good writing and promotion can lead to gains of several hundred thousand viewers, and those viewers can stick around. But it is ultimately meaningless because the bigger "meta" trend is the steady-state decline of the genre. A show could change its rank order from last to first (and that would be remarkable), but it doesn't mean that the broader enterprise isn't dying off.

HH

1. Y&R 3.6/12 (-.2/-.3)

2. B&B 2.5/8 (-.1/-.2)

3. DAYS 2.2/7 (-.1/+.1)

4. AMC 2.0/6 (-.2/same)

5. ATWT 1.9/6 (-.1/-.1)

5. GH 1.9/6 (-.1/-.2)

7. OLTL 1.8/6 (-.1/-.2)

Women 18-49 Viewers

1. Y&R 1,195,000 (-42,000/-137,000)

2. GH 878,000 (-16,000/-112,000)

3. DAYS 819,000 (-111,000/-105,000)

4. B&B 817,000 (+13,000/-71,000)

5. ATWT 694,000 (-1,000/-17,000)

6. OLTL 675,000 (-20,000/-123,000)

7. AMC 627,000 (-117,000/-173,000)

Women 18-49 Rating

1. Y&R 1.8/11 (-.1/-.2)

2. GH 1.3/8 (-.1/-.2)

3. DAYS 1.2/7 (-.2/-.2)

3. B&B 1.2/7 (same/-.1)

5. ATWT 1.1/6 (same/same)

6. OLTL 1.0/6 (-.1/-.2)

7. AMC 0.9/6 (-.2/-.3) <------- ties low rating (Last time: December 14-18, 2009)

I knew the ratings were going to go down. Still not bad for ATWT. I am surprised they only went down 1,000 viewers and stayed steady a 1.1 in the demo. YES!! AMC dropped in HH's and Women 18-49. AMC dead last in Viewers and Ratings in that category where they belong!

Come on ATWT beat AMC next week in HH's too!!

Edited January 24, 201015 yr by Ruxton Hills

I knew the ratings were going to go down. Still not bad for ATWT. I am surprised they only went down 1,000 viewers and stayed steady a 1.1 in the demo. YES!! AMC dropped in HH's and Women 18-49. AMC dead last in Viewers and Ratings in that category where they belong!

Come on ATWT beat AMC next week in HH's too!!

The main ussue with ATWT has always been demos. I'm thrilled to see them besting two ABC shows. Remember when ATWT always came in dead last? The funny thing is that they show isn't even youth-focused any more. Back when Will and Gwen were 'SuperCouple' the show was at .9.

Look at DOOL. They are the "miracle". Sure enough, they won back hundreds of thousands of viewers. So I think that credits the kind of phenomenon you talk about.

But it is ONLY hundreds of thousands. Over past decades, they have lost millions, and those folks are never coming back.

So true!! And where did those viewers come from..from other soaps. They have nothing compelling to offer a new viewer to a soap to watch and slowly or sometimes quickly losing their long time audience in the process. They cannot sustain themselves this way and I don't think the standard viewer at home who doesn't frequent a message board analyze this stuff. Viewers nowadays are very fickle as they have so many other things to choose from. The rating fluctuate way too much and more often than not on the downside.

I am so so curious to seeing what a popular soap actor like SN could do for Y&R but not only that what type of s/l does he get. They may need a few months to determine the impact.