HBO: Game of Thrones

[Vee]

No, you're right; Davos is pretty much the only sane voice of reason on those premises. He appeals to Stannis's better nature, and Melisandre seems to not be completely power-mad as she's responsible for his still being alive and in play. And I do love Liam Cunningham, I have since Prime Suspect 6 and Dog Soldiers - but I especially love him with the kid who plays Shireen.

The sad, and fascinating thing is that Melisandre's religious mania (as well as his sexual infatuation with her, as his mistress) is the major force powering Stannis's new resolve in the world - this whole thing came out of a kind of a midlife crisis which has eaten his whole life and almost surely helped drive his wife mad as she became a part of it (something which you can tell Stannis wasn't thrilled about). If he could get out from under the constant setting people on fire and the visions and all that and stick with his own head and his less hidebound instincts, which Davos is pretty much his proxy for, this whole effort might not seem so doomed to me. I root for the horribly damaged Dragonstone family (plus Davos) because they might as well be in a really trippy Sam Mendes domestic drama.

Edited May 7, 2014 by Vee

[DRW50]

I have mixed feelings about Selyse, as she was obviously very hurt long before Melisandre arrived (the fetuses on display), and Melisandre keeps her going. I think Melisandre is also a big reason Stannis finally took the step toward claiming what was his, after Renly jumped ahead of him. The problem is Stannis expects things to happen, Melisandre tells him they will happen, and when they don't, he falls apart. I won't be shocked if the same happens with the bank.

I'm glad they have toned down some of the "I want your sex" stuff with Stannis and Melisandre, because I don't feel like that he needs or wants from her. I'm sure he enjoys it (although I have never gotten the feeling he enjoys sex as much as he knows he has to have it at certain points for certain reasons), but last season I'm trying to write off as depression, instead of blue balls.

I love Davos, and I love the purity of his devotion to Stannis.

I could watch an entire show with the Dragonstone group. Stannis has such interesting and complex relationships with everyone there.

Edited May 6, 2014 by DRW50

[Juliajms]

I can't remember a time she was ever wrong, when he did what she told him to do. She killed Renly for him. I think there is certainly a case to be made that she brought about the death of Robb and Joff with her curse too. He didn't take her to the blackwater, so that was his own fault.

The talk she had with Shireen was also interesting. I'm not sure what Selyse wanted her to say to the little girl, but I was thankful that Melisandre wasn't really mean or even scary. Not sure what to make of her overall or the part the Red God will play in all of this.

[Vee]

I think he obviously wants that from her; their sexual affair was the foundation stone of their relationship. Beautiful woman comes to a lonely second-son lord on Dragonstone with a deformed child and an ill wife, promises him wealth and power and gives him herself. She started by seducing him, then promised him glory if he converted to her god and followed her counsel to victory. I've never seen him as sexless - I think his sexual passion for Melisandre was one of his only outlets for release from the deeply rigid man he is, and that was what led to her taking such control over his kingdom. She made him feel alive, gave him hope for glory and triumph outside his depressing everyday life on that rocky shore, so that was her way in. It's an old story we see everyday.

Eventually, Melisandre's influence over Stannis and the Baratheons of Dragonstone became so pervasive that they started burning half their people on pyres while his admittedly already-unstable wife completely converted to the cause and urged on the affair. In a way it's a Jim Jones/Jonestown setup - people urging their spouses to cheat so long as it's with the cult leader. You could tell Stannis was dismayed by Selyse growing even more deranged and taking to the cause last season. On the one hand he has come to believe in Melisandre and her faith, he's infatuated with her, he wants what she offers him for the future - but on the other he was clearly disappointed that Selyse's indoctrination denied him some other vantage point from her all-consuming faith. Davos basically told him he was looking for a way out and I think that's both true and not true. Now Davos is the only other vantage point Stannis has, the only true friend outside of Melisandre and her influence.

[DRW50]

I do think Melisandre has powers, but I feel like her powers have limits and are bolstered by her confidence and self-belief. She was thrown off her game for most of her time with those Banner guys, because they were doing things she didn't think were possible. Stannis needs her, and I do think she's helped him immeasurably, but I think even if she'd gone with him to Blackwater, he would have lost that battle. There were just too many men. She could have helped him sniff out the wildfire, but even then, I don't know.

I'm always happy when they don't pigeonhole Melisandre as the other woman, or some bored mistress. I'd like to believe she cares about everyone in Stannis' life, in some way, because he needs all of them if he's going to be the king she wants him to be.

That's probably why this group is so refreshing to me, because they're all very codependent on each other. It's very true to life.

[DRW50]

When they first had sex, I felt like it was duty, almost entirely duty, anyway, to the cause. The whole thing was so detached from passion for me at that time because he felt he had to do it, and she just had sex with him to create that weird shadow demon who killed poor Renly and then went on to, I don't know, kill Supergirl and Bug-Eyed Man and Selena Kyle.

When we got to season 3 I was surprised to see it had become sexual, but the way you describe it, it does make sense to me.

[EricMontreal22]

Thank God Martin is a writer and not a spoken word artist or author *yawn*

I said previously that Michele was one of my fave directors for this show. What I don't get about directing the show is they must have a hard time with what to order (probably why directors tend to do back to back episodes) given the fact they'd have to travel between Ireland, Morocco, Iceland, etc...

[Vee]

I think Melisandre cares only up to a point - if she was just a blind zealot she would not have told him to spare Davos's life, told him they would need him. But I believe her first loyalty is to her Red God, or perhaps just to herself, she's that hard to read for me. If at some point any of them are surplus to requirements, I think she'd tell Stannis (or his wife) to kill them. I think if Shireen continues to defy her thinking it might yet be the same.

I don't think the king Melisandre wants Stannis to be is anywhere near the one Davos wants him to be. I'm not sure Stannis has any idea what kind of king he would want to be, other than that it is supposed to be his throne to rule. IMO Davos and Melisandre are ultimately at cross-purposes and they've tried to kill each other before, but right now they are poised at either end of a very troubled man and he needs them both for whatever Melisandre says is coming. Once that's done I think all bets are off - Davos wants her gone, Melisandre will want him gone again.

[EricMontreal22]

OK I have no idea who you mean... lol

I don't know, kill Supergirl and Bug-Eyed Man and Selena Kyle.

OK I have no idea who you mean... lol

I don't know, kill Supergirl and Bug-Eyed Man and Selena Kyle.

[DRW50]

http://mightygodking.com/2010/01/25/crisis-on-infinite-earths-12-the-battle-around-the-world-sequence/

[DRW50]

I think Stannis would be about honor and duty and always following the rules, he'd likely cut down on the pomp and circumstance, etc. Of course he has broken the rules of honor to suit himself, but I think he regrets some of this and sees it as what he had to do.

I agree that Dragonstone is a means to an end for Melisandre, although I have a feeling she's tied to them for good, whether she may fully want to be or not.

[Vee]

The problem is that he'd probably bring Melisandre and start roasting everyone alive. He's in too deep with her and on some level he knows it.

[DRW50]

I think the roasting he is still only doing out of desperation, more than because he thinks it matters, but I guess we'd have to see. In some ways I wonder if Melisandre would lose him if he did ever gain more power.

[EricMontreal22]

Oh, I actually read that at some point...

[YRBB]

I don't have much to add beyond Vee's initial post on the episode. It was terrific! I'll just do it quickly:

Wow wow wow at Cersei and Margaery’s conversation.

LOL at Lysa's screams!

How much time does Jojen need to mourn and get over his brother's death? “A fortnight?” “That seems reasonable.”

Heartbreaking to see Sansa so childlike and let down her defenses and then have Lysa go nuts on her.

Brienne and Podrick=amazingness.

Jon Snow fighting=sexy as all f.uck.

Heartbreaking that Bran was SOOOO close but he and Jon didn't get to reunite.

Edited May 7, 2014 by YRBB