That's crazy. I love coke backstage hell stories, like what happened at SNL and with Square Pegs.

Why did she bump Hugh Franklin to recurring? Illness?

Frank Grant was the father or husband to one of the black characters on the show before Jesse and Angie, right? What were their names? Nancy...? She was Jesse's aunt?

Frank and Nancy were an on/off couple in the 70s. In the late 70s episode on YouTube, the very first thing in the episode is Jeff and Christina talking about Nancy giving birth to a son with her second husband, Carl Blair. Frank is in the audience at Tom and Erica's wedding with his second wife Caroline. F and N got back together by the early 80s when Jesse (Frank's nephew) came around. Frankie Hubbard is named after Frank Grant.

That's crazy. I love coke backstage hell stories, like what happened at SNL and with Square Pegs.

Why did she bump Hugh Franklin to recurring? Illness?

Frank Grant was the father or husband to one of the black characters on the show before Jesse and Angie, right? What were their names? Nancy...? She was Jesse's aunt?

I think the drug issue became and on/off thing. Walt Willey said in the late 80s that several people were using.

I think Charles Tyler was just played out. His kids Linc and Ann had been written off by this point, Phoebe married Langley, and he settled into a happy marriage with Mona. There was nothing else they could do with him. Hugh Franklin had been around forever and probably cost a pretty penny. I've often said that the same thing would have happened ages ago to Fran Heflin, Mary Fickett and Ray MacDonnell had Susan Lucci and Michael E Knight not become huge superstars.

Frank Grant was Jesse's uncle. Frank's sister Eugenia was Jesse's mother. Frankie Hubbard was named for him. Frank was married to Nancy. In fact the actors who played them, John Danelle and Lisa Wilkinson, were married and then divorced in real life. They had a son Carl. Frank had a stroke and died after arguing with Angie's father Les about Les trying to keep Jesse and Angie apart. John Danelle must've been a FOA (friend of Agnes), because he would soon after turn up on Loving as Det. Art Hindman. Lisa Wilkinson left the show a little while after and went to work for her old boss Jorn Winther at Rituals in a recurring role as an attorney.

The coke problem was apparently huge on all the East Coast soaps but yes, for some reason reportedly it hit AMC hardest or at least that's what we hear about the most (I really wanna make a Michael Nader joke here).

Recently I was reading a book about Broadway musicals and was shocked to see how HUGE cocaine use was at nearly every Broadway show from the late 70s to around '84 or '85 when suddenly people clued in that maybe Cocaine wasn't as harmless as people think. While I've been around the drug in party situations, it's just shocking to read that less than 30 years ago, say, dancers at CATS and Chorus Line would greet each other with a friendly line before going on stage. Actors Equity ended up having to send drug counsellors to the theatres to tell them that this drug wasn't as harmless as they thought. Anyway I guess my point is before reading that it was so prevalent in theatre too(I knew people back then did it at discos and in party situations, just not work) I didn't really understand how it could have been so prevalent at a soap like AMC. People were initially largely just clueless in a way.

Edited January 14, 201015 yr by EricMontreal22

Not only P&G! She basically slaps Agnes Nixon for writing a drearily paced 18th century show!

Well Agnes wasn't the ball buster that Bell was--she could handle criticism as those Paley clips show.

Back then people seemed less like they felt they had to defend every other soap (maybe cuz soaps were more cut throat against eachother and there was less of a sense of doom?) Again in those ofte mentions (by me!) Paley interviews there are a number of digs at P&G shows vs ABC ones (Agnes was head consultant for ABC Daytime at the time, so...)

I think too she was slapping the prior EP more than Agnes--and the script writers she mentions--she goes on at some length about how well written she finds the characters compared to other shows, etc. Sylph always so quick to get a jibe in at Saint Agnes.

Edited January 14, 201015 yr by EricMontreal22

Yeah, coke use was crazy on some of those East Coast shows. Lorne Michaels had a bodyguard set out in front of the offices at SNL just to tip them off if the police were coming to get their drugs. And Garrett Morris was so far gone that he went around screaming during rehearsals one day about the invisible robot on his shoulder.

Thank you so much for all the answers to my questions.

I see Frances Heflin as such an integral part of AMC, the thought of them ever thinking of putting her on recurring is awful, but you're right, that probably could have happened. Sometimes I forget that the soaps even back then were not always nice to their vets.

My mother met Dack and Gillian Spencer back in the '80s and she thought Dack might have been gay. She didn't say that he was *flaming* (hate to use such terms) or anything, but there was a certain quality I suppose. Now, my granddad could never STAND Cliff Warner who he thought was an obnoxious whiney wimp. We were having lunch one day and he flipped to channel 9 instead of 7 and griped, "Oh sh!t..." when he saw Jack Abbott. My grandmother and I got a good laugh out of that one.

I wonder if Babbin went too far for some... Again in those Paley Center videos One guy asks, and a number seem to agree, that AMC was lacking in the "nice sensitive" guys he grew up with--Tom being backburnered, he mentions missing Greg who I guess had left and Cliff being backburnered lol.

A lot of people remember the early Babbin days as classic AMC, which is true for the most part. Many forget what happened from mid-1985 to mid-1986 during Babbin's run. It was one misfire after another (Angie/Jesse/Eugene triangle; Angie/Dr. Voight sexual harrassment; Cliff/Nina/Benny/Donna triangle; Tad and Dottie on the run from mobsters in NYC; Phoebe/Wade/Langley; Greg/Robin; Brooke romanced by daredevil Gilles St. Clair; Brooke finds her biological mother in a homeless shelter). Nothing really seemed to be clicking during this time frame, except the Jeremy/Erica romance, which introduced us to the remarkable Kate Collins. She carried that story IMO. When people talk about classic AMC, this isn't it. Jorn Winther returned to get the show going. He laid the groundwork for some great stuff, but he didn't get the ratings up and was axed.

I love reading your memories of the show. '85 was pretty much exactly when Agnes left to HW Loving full time so that would make sense... Iguess Wisner and Lorraine were left in charge--with Babbin?

The Tad/Dottie on the run was just silly, culminating with evil pimp/mobster Barton Crane trying to get ahold of some floppy disk with the names of his hookers' johns that Tad had supposedly stolen. It was hidden in the Martin home, and I remember Charlie and Hillary trying to decipher the disk. The Angie/Dr. Voight sexual harassment started out interesting enough (trivia: Dr. Voight was played by David Canary's real-life brother), and the show got all the usual kudos for being first-line in issue-oriented stories, but it somehow degenerated into a vehicle to desperately pimp Greg and Robin (Hunter Tylo, then known as Deborah Morehart). Robin figured out what Voight was up to (forgot the details) and he tried to strangle her on the roof of the hospital! Of course, the Benny/Nina romance was just awful. It's as if they had these expensive vets (Candi Earley, Vasili Bogazianos, Peter Bergman, and James Mitchell) sitting around with nothing to do, so they decided to put them in a story together. It was just silly and was thankfully ended abruptly.

Winther began laying the groundwork for the Cortlandt Manor story involving Palmer, Natalie, Ross, Ellen, and Julie that awaken the show and culminate in Ross's trial for raping Natalie in the Steve Schenkel years. He also hired Larkin Malloy, Robin Christopher, Rosa Nevin, and Susan Pratt. The show seemed much more character-driven than plot-driven under him too. One of the first things he did is promote Lorraine Broderick as co-HW with Wisner.

Honestly, I'm pretty sure those are wrong. I distinctly remember that era, and Jorn Winther definitely didn't join til the fall of 1986.

Aww so it wasn't Wisner solo--interesting they promoted Broderick.. I wonder how long Winther was back as EP then--on Wiki and Toups lists it says he was just back for 3 months which made me think maybe he agreed to return to the show as a favour for an interim while they found a permanent new EP.

I just had a crazy picture in my mind of Ruth Warrick,Fra Heflin and Eileen Herlie high on coke!

Anyway,by the mid 80's AMC was kind of at the crossroads story/character wise.There were no new Tylers and Martins to bring on and Cliff/Nina really had played out.Palmer had no other relatives at that stage(that was soon to be corrected)Greg was so closely identified with Jenny.Chuck,Donna,Brooke,Mark ,Tometc had been around for years and what the writers came up with didn't do them any favours.

I wonder whether bringing in one of Greg's sisters would have helped his cause.She could have been involved with Tad,which would have infurited Enid and established that family.

Was Laurence Lau one of AMC's coke fiends?It was odd that he left and was replaced.

The Greg,Liza,Nina and later Angie recasts were not necessary and damaged those chracters.

Frank and Nancy were an on/off couple in the 70s. In the late 70s episode on YouTube, the very first thing in the episode is Jeff and Christina talking about Nancy giving birth to a son with her second husband, Carl Blair. Frank is in the audience at Tom and Erica's wedding with his second wife Caroline. F and N got back together by the early 80s when Jesse (Frank's nephew) came around. Frankie Hubbard is named after Frank Grant.

Shadows can you find the clip you mention with Frank and Nancy? I have seen that great Wedding episode on youtube (which doesn't have 18th century dialogue IMHO lol)

Greg was recast? I never knew that.

I always thought it was a bit odd when he showed up on AW as he looked much more bloated than he did at AMC. Then by the time he got to OLTL, 2001, he looked a hell of a lot better.

I guess it's that Charles Grant arc.

Shadows can you find the clip you mention with Frank and Nancy? I have seen that great Wedding episode on youtube (which doesn't have 18th century dialogue IMHO lol)

That's the episode I meant. Nancy doesn't appear, but Jeff and Christina briefly converse about her. Frank and Caroline have a brief scene at the beginning and they appear later on with Chuck and Donna.

I was trying to embed, but it won't post for some reason.

Edited January 14, 201015 yr by All My Shadows

I just had a crazy picture in my mind of Ruth Warrick,Fra Heflin and Eileen Herlie high on coke!

Is it horrid to admit that that's a party I'd love to be at! Hook up Agnes and James Mitchell while you're at it.

The Greg,Liza,Nina and later Angie recasts were not necessary and damaged those chracters.

It's telling that no one even remembers those recasts (ditto the odd seeming Brooke one that you can see on youtube from her theatre hiatus in the early 80s).

While mid to late 80s AMC still seems like absolute gold compared to what us fans have suffered most of this decade, it's interesting to see it from that perspective. More and more I understand why they felt Behr had to come in by the end of '88 and shake things up.

That's the episode I meant. Nancy doesn't appear, but Jeff and Christina briefly converse about her. Frank and Caroline have a brief scene at the beginning and they appear later on with Chuck and Donna.

I was trying to embed, but it won't post for some reason.

Thanks, I haven't watched it in some years so I guess maybe I will again tonite

Edited January 14, 201015 yr by EricMontreal22

Eric, I've never been able to find that clip of the late Harriet Hall as Brooke, I remember when you mentioned it last time. Can you (of all people ) direct me to the clip?

Robin Strasser looks so good in that Erica/Tom wedding clip. A lot like Adrianna.

Edited January 14, 201015 yr by SFK

I'm hopeless at tracking down youtube clips but I will try my best

*edit* you know I think it was in the last days of WOST. I saved most of the AMC/Loving/OLTL videos I could from there so will have to go through my discs. It involved Devon and her abusive (?) bf/husband too.