15 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

Josh/Reva were constantly broken up and reunited within a year or two... it lost it's impact after awhile for the non Jeva fans. 

I would argue the problem with "Jeva" wasn't the shippers...it was the KZ fans that demanded she be front-burner all the time.

They had the potential to become the patriarch/matriarch of SF, but KZ was not going to stand for that. She wanted to be the romantic heroine right up to the bitter end. 

They absolutely could have paired Josh successfully with someone else--they almost did with Harley. Of course, that was scuttled by RN leaving and Harley being not in a good place to be reunited with him when he came back. So that was the end of that. But he didn't have to be tied to Reva forever.

20 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

I liked the twist of Ross being the one to cheat on Blake and the final showdown between Tory and Blake was done effectively (I got two of my college friends to become a view because of that story)

I also thought that was great. They didn't forget Blake was Roger Thorpe's daughter. If they had remembered that a little more often, maybe she wouldn't have become a rather boring character in the end.

1 hour ago, DeeVee said:

I think this is the key. When you have that kind of super-popular couple, you HAVE to break them up periodically. Mac and Rachel on AW were central to the show until Doug Watson's death for this reason. It's just the nature of the beast.

But when you have insane fans threatening who-knows-what if you break up their darlings and keep them together long after the rest of the audience is tired of them, you do your show real damage.

It really is kind of amazing to see the difference in the writing from the pre "supercouple" era to the supercouple era. I mean, GL's Ben&Eve and Jackie&Justin were starcrossed and popular and all that---but they got married and divorced and had other relationships.

You can always keep that door open just a crack to facilitate something down the road. 

 

1 hour ago, Soaplovers said:

Ross and Vanessa conflicts me because they had such good chemistry and an ease around one another so I enjoyed when they would give one another advice about their current relationships and/or work situations.... but I had wished that Ross/Vanessa were end game at the same time.

However, I did like Billy and Vanessa together as a couple... but I did like that once they were broken up in 1994.. the two still maintained a friendship and trust with one another.

I was happy with Billy/Vanessa as end game, but had it been Ross/Vanessa.. I would have still have been happy.  I was just happy that Vanessa was served well and not neglected.

LOL..Billy and Van would always have a slight edge for me, but otherwise I feel the same. It's funny---I just realized Van was never fought over in a triangle. (I do not count Billy's pissin' match with Fletch...Fletch was always the also ran in that contest. LOL)

On 9/5/2025 at 9:40 PM, P.J. said:

I think you mean she married Rick. Beth never married Alan-Michael.

As much as I believe they ruined the character of Beth, they didn't do Rick any favors either. His obsessive need (I won't even say love) to have her in his life is kinda twisted.

Thanks for the correction!  I never liked Rick.  He wasn't horrible, I just never clicked with that character. 

For a doctor, he sure needed to learn about birth control. 

I wouldn't have had Vanessa divorced from Billy that quickly.  Sure, have her have a love affair with Matt, but make her still married (and still in love) to Billy.

As for Ross, I just can't take watching all those years until he finally cheats on Blake.  For me, it's too late with how she treated him with just kissing Amanda.  That whole storyline was just plain sick to me (the writing was cringe and badly done). 

Did they really ever give Ross and Vanessa a chance to be a couple?  Or was that only in the 80s before Roger and Holly returned?

Edited September 7Sep 7 by MLH

23 minutes ago, MLH said:

Thanks for the correction!  I never liked Rick.  He wasn't horrible, I just never clicked with that character. 

For a doctor, he sure needed to learn about birth control. 

I wouldn't have had Vanessa divorced from Billy that quickly.  Sure, have her have a love affair with Matt, but make her still married (and still in love) to Billy.

As for Ross, I just can't take watching all those years until he finally cheats on Blake.  For me, it's too late with how she treated him with just kissing Amanda.  That whole storyline was just plain sick to me (the writing was cringe and badly done). 

Did they really ever give Ross and Vanessa a chance to be a couple?  Or was that only in the 80s before Roger and Holly returned?

I'm not really sure she married Rick in the '00s. I know he claimed paternity to keep Alan away from Peyton. I know (or at least think) Rick and Beth married in late '89 after Phillip faked his death to avoid going to prison in the Neil Everest case. 

Had Jordan's absence in '93 been treated like a maternity leave (with a certain end date, I mean) he and Van probably wouldn't have divorced. (Or had what's his name been better received in the role...darn it, Dynasty dude. I'm too lazy to look up his name. Geoffrey whoever) But I don't think it was really in Van's nature to cheat on someone if she was in a relationship. It may be splitting hairs, since she had no problem sleeping with Billy when he was married to Nadine. And she's (imo anyway) really in love with Billy when she's sleeping with Fletcher. (She does kiss Billy when she's nearly engaged to Fletch, but well...girls' prerogative and all that...lol)

Did Ross and Van have a fair shot at reuniting in '87? In hindsight? Probably not. Even though she and Billy had been at odds for most of '86, they were still in love and trying to make it work. The issues over Dinah seemed more than slightly forced. I think GL pushed Ross and Van together too fast (from what's up, it seems like they started to fan those flames up around March and Ross is asking her to marry him in August) And Alan's making goo-goo eyes at her by at least June. That's not a lot of time to reestablish a connection, even with a newfound child to anchor them.

Van and Ross never had a real shot after that. There's a little possessiveness on Van's part when she returns in '89, but she quickly gets sucked into Billy's situation with Dylan, and Ross is chasing Holly. GL gets caught up in May/September romances---Ed/Eve, Ross/Blake and Van/**** in the '90s.

6 minutes ago, P.J. said:

Rick and Beth married in late '89 after Phillip faked his death to avoid going to prison in the Neil Everest case. 

That was late summer/early fall 1990.

28 minutes ago, kalbir said:

That was late summer/early fall 1990.

Ooops...yep. How could I forget that? He dies when Billy takes the Towers. D'oh. lol

I was on vacation, so couldn't watch GL for 10 days, but I'm happily back in the saddle! 🤠

I’m up to October 31, 1997.

Harley and Phillip have a first official date at her apartment and it’s a comedy of errors, with both having internal dialogue that’s pretty funny. This finally got me to enjoy them, so we’ll see how I feel going forward.

Buzz proposes to Jenna, but they’re still spooked by the stalker. J stops by the Diner and tells Buzz that he’s worried about his mom, who is now at the Bauer cabin fantasizing about Buzz. J then recognizes Nola’s earring that the police recovered and tells Buzz it’s his mother’s, without really knowing what’s going on. Buzz then realizes his stalker is Nola. He goes to the Bauer cabin to confront Nola, which happens to be during a big thunderstorm. She starts to deny it, but then breaks down and tells him the entire truth, which he is empathetic over. She apologizes and asks that he not tell anyone, which he agrees and they decide to restart their friendship. On his way out, he grabs firewood for Nola since she is going to stay at the cabin, and he falls down the cellar stairs! Nola tries to help, but the roads are flooded, her car is stuck in the mud and the phone is out. Buzz finally wakes up and seems to have amnesia because he doesn’t recognize his own name and doesn’t know Nola LOL. Oh brother. It’s quite funny because he says the name Buzz is dumb and he can’t believe he’s stuck “slinging hash at a Diner”. Nola tells him he’s in love with Jenna, but he keeps refusing it. The storm is over and J is able to call her, but she doesn’t say anything and hangs up. Oh Nola, she is so conflicted and making all the wrong decisions. J then shows up, Nola hides Buzz, and convinces J she’s ok and actually is dating a man that she won’t tell him about. Later, Nola and Buzz continue to console each other over their feelings of loneliness. J ends up telling Phillip and Harley about his concerns and recent visit with Nola at the cabin and Harley puts it all together that Nola was Buzz’s stalker. They race to the cabin and just as Buzz is walking out to start a new life, Harley shows up and he asks who she is. Harley can’t believe it and starts to freak out and Buzz tells her that he only knows Nola and she’s taken care of him and he wants to be with her. Harley is furious with Nola and vows that she will pay big time. They all eventually convince him to call Jenna and tell her he loves her. Jenna is ecstatic to hear from him and Vanessa convinces her to go to the cabin and surprise him. They arrive and Jenna is devastated to hear he has amnesia and tries to remind him of wonderful memories they had together. She vows to help him relearn his life. Meanwhile, Vanessa grills Nola a bit for the truth. They all head back to Springfield and take him to the hospital, while everyone still figures out what to do with him. He clings to Nola and she eventually returns him to Jenna against his wishes. He finally warms up to Jenna and notices pregnancy pills and she admits she’s pregnant. Overall, it is nice that Nola is getting her own storyline, but this was a bit ridiculous.

Jenna takes Vanessa to the hospital to terminate her pregnancy (she doesn’t want Matt to go and experience heartbreak). Matt finds a letter that Vanessa wrote their unborn child, explaining why she died and why she’s without a mother. That makes him change his mind and he rushes to the hospital to stop Vanessa from terminating the baby, and as he gets there, Vanessa tells him she couldn’t go through with the procedure either and wants to have the baby, regardless of the risk. They tell Dinah, who pretends to be excited but she’s not because of the risk. At the same time, Jenna finds out she’s pregnant, but is still worried about Buzz because he’s gone missing. She also voices concerns to Vanessa that it may not be Buzz’s child (i.e. Jeffrey). She later takes a test at the hospital and the results show that Jeffrey is the father and she breaks down.

Drew’s dad cuts her off and forces her to get a job because of her meddling and forcing Dahlia to quit; he’s spoiled her far too long. Sugar then quits. Jesse gets J to hire Drew as a waitress at Company and she sucks at it. Michelle sees Jesse/Drew together at Company is getting jealous of Drew. Given that Jesse knows he has Maureen’s heart, he tells Michelle they can’t be together anymore, which Michelle further assumes it means he likes Drew instead. Later, Drew sees Jesse’s scar on his chest and Jesse tells her she can never tell anyone about his scar.

Ed tells Michelle he isn’t staying long, but wants her to go back to Africa with him. She says no. Ed privately asks Rick to get Michelle to drop her search for Maureen’s heart because it’ll lead her back to Jesse. Ed explains to Rick that Jesse had a congenital heart defect and the only way he’d survive is if he had a heart transplant. Ed says he didn’t cause Jesse’s mom’s death, but he had a lot of pent up guilt about the whole thing. Ed made it possible for Maureen’s heart to be given to Jesse, sort of a debt to be repaid to the family. Diaz was his mother’s maiden name, which was used at the time of the transplant. Later, Ed sees Jesse alone and they acknowledge what they each know and agree never to tell Michelle because it would hurt her and Jesse’s father both. Jesse continues to push Michelle away (even though he still likes her), and Michelle decides to get her life together and go back to Africa with Ed. Before she leaves, she goes back to Jesse’s one last time to tell him. His shirt rips open and exposes his scar. He says it was a knife fight, but she puts all the pieces together and realizes he has Maureen’s heart. He finally confesses that it’s true, but Michelle doesn’t mind and still wants them to be together. He agrees and they go to Ed to tell them she’s staying in Springfield with him, which upsets him. Michelle then starts to have issues with Lillian and her role in Maureen’s death (she had an affair with Ed and Maureen found out and got into car crash and died). Michelle hasn’t been able to forgive Lillian yet.

Cassie is pushing dates with Billy because she’s being forced to by Alan through blackmail (Tammy’s safety). Billy kisses Cassie and she’s not interested romantically, but has to play along, even though she likes Billy as a boss and now friend. In the office, Reva/Billy/Cassie find out a dummy corporation out of the Cayman Islands is buying up a lot of Lewis Oil stock, which is fishy. They find out the CEO of the dummy corp is Annie Dutton LOL. Later, Cassie decides to take Tammy at night with the petty cash on hand at Lewis Oil and run away from her situation with Alan, but Hart walks in on Cassie stealing the money and pressures her into the truth. She spills everything by saying two ‘bad people’ are blackmailing her, but never says Alan/Annie’s names. Hart now wants to help her get Tammy back.

Annie breaks into Cross Creek and now has a written “Hit List” with Reva “The Liar”, Josh, Harley, Phillip, Alan and Cassie all listed. She wakes up and starts drinking, to help herself “think more clearly”. October 3rd is the episode Watros submitted for the Emmy and won, which shows her alone drunk at Cross Creek, guzzling bottles and destroying/breaking stuff. She finds some prescription pills and takes them with alcohol, all while crying. Strong scenes here. She later realizes she took all the pills, freaks out and yells for help before passing out on the floor. Josh travels to Cross Creek and finds an unconscious Annie and calls 911. He calls Alan too and tells him he’s found Annie. Alan gets to Annie at the hospital and at this point he’s had a change of heart and wants to continue protecting Annie. She agrees to stick with Alan if he gives her full power and ownership of the Lewis Oil stock, and he agrees.

One night at the Towers, Reva/Josh/Billy/Cassie are having a double date and Alan/Annie show up. Annie doesn’t think Cassie is putting forth enough effort to seduce Billy, so she follows her into the bathroom and reminds her that she and Alan have Tammy’s life in their hands. Cassie gets pissed and yells at Annie, which Reva starts to overhear. The bathroom scenes in this episode are pretty amazing where Annie/Cassie have to make up a story to Reva about how they just met, while still hating on each other. Later, a case worker tells Cassie that having Hart appear as her soon to be husband will help her chances win back custody of Tammy, so he eventually agrees even though Dinah will flip her lid, but Annie overhears the conversation and gets angry. She decides to tell Dinah about their upcoming night in Chicago together before her early hearing and Dinah freaks and decides to go up to Chicago, but she’s delayed due to a fog storm. Hart/Cassie got there early enough and are forced to share a suite. Dinah finally arrives and walks in on them in pajamas. They try to start explaining but the case workers arrive early and Dinah blows their cover, the case workers leave upset, and Cassie slaps Dinah (loved that, much deserved). Then they tussle and have a great girl fight until Hart breaks them up.

Abby and Holly meet again to discuss their experiences and how Abby feels, which is sweet to see Holly mentor her. Rick goes to Holly as well to get advice on how to handle Abby, which Roger overhears. He tells Holly later that the same advice might have helped the two of them. He tries to kiss her hand and she pulls back.

Blake arranges a dinner with Holly/Fletcher/Roger/Amanda, but tells Ross everyone was aware and happy to attend, but they weren’t, she surprised them. She pushes them to be a family for the sake of Kevin/Jason and they oblige. Holly even jokes how Amanda will be a step-grandmother before being a mother LOL.

Rick starts having issues with not seeing Kevin as often as he wants, so he talks to Blake and wants a schedule where he can see him more often and then be named father legally on his birth certificate. Blake agrees and tells Ross, but Ross gets upset and says no way (which annoys me). Rick and Abby then meet with Griffin at the Towers club to see what his options are and after the meeting, Abby gets attacked again in the parking garage by the same goon as before (Roy), but thankfully Rick shows up and he runs before he can really hurt her. Roy follows them back to the Bauer house where Michelle and Jesse are and he watches the four of them discuss what happened. Rick finally apologizes to Jesse and they re-introduce themselves to each other and shake hands. They see Roy out the window and Jesse catches him and Abby is able to stand up to Roy and give him a piece of her mind before he’s carted away to jail. Later, Roy gets off on bail and on Halloween night, he shows up and threatens Abby while she’s home alone and giving out candy to trick or treaters.

1 hour ago, kalbir said:

That was late summer/early fall 1990.

That was a fake marriage though.  It would have been interesting to see it go further than it did. 

@alwaysAMC The Abby rape storyline is another reason I cannot stand Blake later on. 

Edited September 7Sep 7 by MLH

28 minutes ago, MLH said:

 

@alwaysAMC The Abby rape storyline is another reason I cannot stand Blake later on. 

I'll bite---what does Blake have to do with it?

1 hour ago, alwaysAMC said:

Rick starts having issues with not seeing Kevin as often as he wants, so he talks to Blake and wants a schedule where he can see him more often and then be named father legally on his birth certificate.

I thought by this time it was clear that Ross was the father of both kids...I thought it came out in the Annie trial? But the show was a mess then so who knows.

Okay, because I had to know, and I happened to stumble down the 2008 rabbit hole (which may make me a bit of a masochist)...Feb 28, Beth renames baby Bernadette. She was up at 2 am (when there's not much on but old movies, infomercials and classic sports clips.) She wants to name her baby after someone who's a leader, able to be her own person, a winner and able to stand in the pocket unafraid. Peyton Spaulding.

God...Beth did love Alan. BLECH.

Edited September 8Sep 8 by P.J.

45 minutes ago, P.J. said:

Feb 28, Beth renames baby Bernadette. She was up at 2 am (when there's not much on but old movies, infomercials and classic sports clips.) She wants to name her baby after someone who's a leader, able to be her own person, a winner and able to stand in the pocket unafraid. Peyton Spaulding.

Thanks for doing it so I didn't have to. 😁

Someone on the writing staff must have been a sports fan.

4 hours ago, Mitch64 said:

I thought by this time it was clear that Ross was the father of both kids...I thought it came out in the Annie trial? But the show was a mess then so who knows.

No, hasn't happened yet  I've known that will be the outcome, which I'm upset by because I love Rick's bonding with Kevin, but I'm very curious to see how it all comes out. I'm assuming Rick will eventually force his name on the birth certificate legally and then it'll require some DNA test and maybe that's when it'll come out... *don't tell me  * - but nope, hasn't happened yet as of early November 1997.

1 hour ago, DeeVee said:

Thanks for doing it so I didn't have to. 😁

Someone on the writing staff must have been a sports fan.

Well, by that time, Manning would've been in the league nearly ten years. You've would've had to been living under a rock to not have heard of him.