49 minutes ago, DeeVee said:

I am going to hazzard a guess that this being dropped may have had little to nothing to do with Long's departure. I suspect that this was dropped more because the network/P&G/producer chickened out.

I remember this very clearly. My mom and I were very interested in seeing how they handled this, as we are Jewish. It was awkwardly handled, in our opinion. It was more about Harley reacting to these "exotic" people than about creating actual characters.

 

Very ironic since the show began with a Jewish family as the core family. 

While I liked Samantha, I understood why she disappeared. She was just a little too naive and sedate for a teen. Jackie's daughter should've been a sparkplug, and instead she was this bookish idealist who talked weird. I do think Grant leaving affected her situation, not to mention a bad Justin recast. Phillip and Sam interacted a little bit from what I've seen, but she spent much more time in Alan-Michael and Harley's sphere.

I think Pam Long was right, it was out of character for Mindy to have had an affair with Roger.  Although I don't know what the point of a ONS would've been, unless she had immediately gotten pregnant. I'm sure Billy would've blown his stack realizing his first grandchild would've been Roger's child. Granted, the big reveal of the affair is terrific and spins characters into different directions, but we also know it ends up grating on Bev McKinsey somewhat.

It was weird that Billy got the Towers, which was supposed to have commercial space and apartments (Mindy makes a stink and refuses to live there after Billy got it) yet the only characters who ever had an apartment there (that I can recall) are Justin and Sam. It just mainly became where the Towers restaurant was located.

54 minutes ago, P.J. said:

While I liked Samantha, I understood why she disappeared. She was just a little too naive and sedate for a teen. Jackie's daughter should've been a sparkplug, and instead she was this bookish idealist who talked weird. I do think Grant leaving affected her situation, not to mention a bad Justin recast. Phillip and Sam interacted a little bit from what I've seen, but she spent much more time in Alan-Michael and Harley's sphere.

I think Pam Long was right, it was out of character for Mindy to have had an affair with Roger.  Although I don't know what the point of a ONS would've been, unless she had immediately gotten pregnant. I'm sure Billy would've blown his stack realizing his first grandchild would've been Roger's child. Granted, the big reveal of the affair is terrific and spins characters into different directions, but we also know it ends up grating on Bev McKinsey somewhat.

It was weird that Billy got the Towers, which was supposed to have commercial space and apartments (Mindy makes a stink and refuses to live there after Billy got it) yet the only characters who ever had an apartment there (that I can recall) are Justin and Sam. It just mainly became where the Towers restaurant was located.

I related more to Samantha than teen/young adults like Drew and Michelle. 

29 minutes ago, MLH said:

I related more to Samantha than teen/young adults like Drew and Michelle. 

Well, arguably, so did I. But Michelle and Drew came later. Bridget, Kat and Julie were the next group of teen girls, and I liked Bridget and Kat very much.

On 9/2/2025 at 2:25 PM, Soaplovers said:

From fall 1988 to late 1990, it seemed as though Curlee and Long shared co-head writing duties.  We know that Curlee was the one to push for Mindy/Roger being more then just a one time hook up (Curlee had said in a Locher Room interview that Long kept saying that it would be out of character for Mindy to carry on with married man beyond a mistaken one night stand, but that Curlee's idea was taken... and all know Curlee hated the Roger with the mask posing as Adam Malick.. and that seemed like a Pam Long story.. which sort of made sense considering how Roger did wear disguises while in hiding back in the day).

I suspect once Pam Long left the team in late 1990, that some of the elements she was focusing on were dropped/modified.  Case in point, Harley was going to be paired with a designer that was part of a Jewish family.... and Mallet/Mindy were dropped pretty quickly once 1991 rolled around.   I have a feeling that once Long was gone.. .Curlee and co shifted gears on some of those characters.   I also suspect Dylan/Sam were a Long creation.. and that once Long was gone, Sam became more supporting before she was phased out in early 1992.

Roger and Mindy were intriguing to me. I didn't love them together for many reasons, but I didn't hate them either. And unlike all of Roger's other women, excluding Holly, I actually thought Roger did love Mindy. Not as much as he loved or wanted Holly, but I did believe he loved Mindy. Loved the showdown with Roger and Alexandra at the Country Club over his affair. Classic stuff.

Annette

37 minutes ago, GL Oldtimer said:

Roger and Mindy were intriguing to me. I didn't love them together for many reasons, but I didn't hate them either. And unlike all of Roger's other women, excluding Holly, I actually thought Roger did love Mindy. Not as much as he loved or wanted Holly, but I did believe he loved Mindy.

Despite the initial torridness of Roger/Mindy (affair with business rival's daughter), I believe Roger did love Mindy but they wouldn't have worked as a long-term couple because the specter of Roger's feelings for Holly would be lingering in the background.

If you saw the Locher Room MZ tribute episode, Kimberley Simms credited the Roger/Mindy storyline for her growing as an actress and Mindy growing as a character, plus she mentioned that the Roger/Mindy storyline allowed the audience to see MZ as a romantic leading man and not just a villain.

1 hour ago, GL Oldtimer said:

Roger and Mindy were intriguing to me. I didn't love them together for many reasons, but I didn't hate them either. And unlike all of Roger's other women, excluding Holly, I actually thought Roger did love Mindy. Not as much as he loved or wanted Holly, but I did believe he loved Mindy. Loved the showdown with Roger and Alexandra at the Country Club over his affair. Classic stuff.

Annette

Me too.  Mindy was not a pushover and didn't fawn over Roger like people kept saying for some reason.  However, it was never going to work.  Ever.  

Now, her having a baby would have been perfect for tying Billy and Roger...that would have been fantastic soap goodness to me. 

I didn't think Rick was good enough for Mindy.  I thought her and Mallott had great chemistry, but him being in law enforcement/PI was just repeating Rusty. I personally wish they didn't bring her back.  

I did find the episodes where Harley met Matt Weiss, the Jewish character Long introduced. The scenes were not nearly as over-the-top or cringy as I remembered. (Maybe being dubbed into German made a difference, LOL).

Anyway, I thought it was nicely done, BUT I just don't see how they were going to weave them into the canvas. They set up this guy as having a successful business in the fashion center of the world. It's hard to believe he would move to SF. Unless they were planning to have Harley break off from SF and have a story about her pursuing her fashion career in NYC. Personally not a fan of multiple locations for a soap opera. So I have feeling this was doomed from the start.

Watching these eps also reminded me how much I liked Josh and Harley as a romantic pair back then. Newman left soon after and that was the end of that. Does anyone remember if they ever revisited it? I can't recall.

1 minute ago, DeeVee said:

 

Watching these eps also reminded me how much I liked Josh and Harley as a romantic pair back then. Newman left soon after and that was the end of that. Does anyone remember if they ever revisited it? I can't recall.

Revisit as in how? No, they never dated again. When Josh came back in '93, he did try and see if Harley was still interested, and she wasn't. She was involved with Mallet by then and she dragged him for having left her the way he did. (He wrote her a letter and then they broke up over the phone.)

1 minute ago, P.J. said:

Revisit as in how? No, they never dated again. When Josh came back in '93, he did try and see if Harley was still interested, and she wasn't. She was involved with Mallet by then and she dragged him for having left her the way he did. (He wrote her a letter and then they broke up over the phone.)

That's what I meant, if they ever dated again.

Didn't he also take off on a wild goose chase to try and find Reva? Not surprised Harley told him to pound sand, if that's the case.

8 minutes ago, DeeVee said:

That's what I meant, if they ever dated again.

Didn't he also take off on a wild goose chase to try and find Reva? Not surprised Harley told him to pound sand, if that's the case.

Yes, Josh proposed to Harley over NYE, and then left to find Reva a few weeks into January '91. Billy and Sarah thought they saw Reva in footage of a travel show. Billy had offered to go to Italy and search for her, but Josh went. Billy was drinking and had put Lewis Oil in a hole. When Josh leaves, he and HB decided to put Vanessa in charge, which cheesed Billy off. One of RN's best scenes is his final talk with Billy, where he tells Billy how much he admired his older brother, and that Billy's drinking has cost Josh his brother.

The original plan when the show was wooing Robert Newman back was the promise of doing a Mallet/Harley/Josh triangle... but as we all know, both actors playing Mallet/Harley were leaving the show.

No only was there scenes where Harley read Josh the riot act for dumping her the way he did... there was tensions between Josh and Mallet due to the Dylan/Julie/Hart situation.  Newman and Derwin had great rival chemistry and it was a shame that it didn't get explored.

Simms floundered as Mindy for several months of her stint because she came in during the end of the Will Jefferies story, she didn't have chemistry with Rusty, and there wasn't a plan for how her Mindy would fit into the soap so she was tested with Rick, Daniel St John, and Neil Everest before she hit pay dirt with Roger.

I think her having the baby would have kept the character of Mindy on the show.. and would have tied Roger/Billy to one another while giving Alexandra a living reminder of the betrayal of not only Roger.. but Mindy (who she liked )

I know during the Locher Room interview with Sims and Curlee where they rewatched Billy finding out about Roger/Mindy... Sims said she really tried not to play Mindy as being vicious nor trying to age shame Alexandra.   Curlee seemed like such a mean individual in her interviews and how she seemed to be the driving force behind the degradation of Alexandra's character... admitting that now that she was the older woman, she realized her error of her writing the story in that vein.

Edited September 4Sep 4 by Soaplovers

2 hours ago, DeeVee said:

I did find the episodes where Harley met Matt Weiss, the Jewish character Long introduced. The scenes were not nearly as over-the-top or cringy as I remembered. (Maybe being dubbed into German made a difference, LOL).

Anyway, I thought it was nicely done, BUT I just don't see how they were going to weave them into the canvas. They set up this guy as having a successful business in the fashion center of the world. It's hard to believe he would move to SF. Unless they were planning to have Harley break off from SF and have a story about her pursuing her fashion career in NYC. Personally not a fan of multiple locations for a soap opera. So I have feeling this was doomed from the start.

Watching these eps also reminded me how much I liked Josh and Harley as a romantic pair back then. Newman left soon after and that was the end of that. Does anyone remember if they ever revisited it? I can't recall.

I agree about Harley and Josh.  She had chemistry with the family as well.  Unlike Alan-Michael.  Rick Hearst's Alan-Michael had zero chemistry with Harley, IMO. 

 

Edited September 4Sep 4 by MLH

5 hours ago, DeeVee said:

I did find the episodes where Harley met Matt Weiss, the Jewish character Long introduced. The scenes were not nearly as over-the-top or cringy as I remembered. (Maybe being dubbed into German made a difference, LOL).

Anyway, I thought it was nicely done, BUT I just don't see how they were going to weave them into the canvas. They set up this guy as having a successful business in the fashion center of the world. It's hard to believe he would move to SF. Unless they were planning to have Harley break off from SF and have a story about her pursuing her fashion career in NYC. Personally not a fan of multiple locations for a soap opera. So I have feeling this was doomed from the start.

I imagine they would have done like ATWT did with Hank Elliot in the late '80s, where he had a successful fashion name in New York but began working with partners in Oakdale. It was easier to do so because of Barbara being a fashion maven with a base in Oakdale, but they could have figured out something.

I always thought it was a mistake not to revisit Josh and Harley. I think that would've gone over a lot better than Cassie. But Beth Ehlers was so hard by then.