9 minutes ago, P.J. said:

Yeah---I just skipped right over the Cain stuff. 

The length the show went to make all the Lewis men stupid over Reva really is grating. 

From what I've seen of 1986's GL, it feels like a lot of it is just the idiot plot in full force. If any of the characters would starting acting like they have brain cells, the stories would be over. The quality of the show doesn't feel as strong either. The direction is quite lazy. Claire is thrown off a bridge at one point, and it's so badly choreographed and directed.

28 minutes ago, chrisml said:

From what I've seen of 1986's GL, it feels like a lot of it is just the idiot plot in full force. If any of the characters would starting acting like they have brain cells, the stories would be over. The quality of the show doesn't feel as strong either. The direction is quite lazy. Claire is thrown off a bridge at one point, and it's so badly choreographed and directed.

I'm not sure why bad writing seems to ripple through the entire look of the show. You'd think that direction or wardrobe would be immune somehow.

But you're right---1986 is not good.

But, on the upside, I found the episode of Vanessa in her red/Scarlett/feather dress. Someone must have missed the memo that only Reva's allowed to wear red.

Edited June 15Jun 15 by P.J.

2 hours ago, P.J. said:

I'm not sure why bad writing seems to ripple through the entire look of the show. You'd think that direction or wardrobe would be immune somehow.

The amount of HW changes over the year is insane. I counted five. There was also an EP change. Clearly, there was a lot of upheaval going on BTS and it probably affected everything. 

It is absolutely bizarre that by the end of the year many of the 1986 front burner people would be out or on the way out, and then we get a whole bunch of NEW people. Then the returns of Bernau, Newman, GA...while that was mostly a good thing, having to give them all major air time while introducing several new characters had to have caused issues all around.

In the midst of some of this terribleness I did come across a really good scene between (surprise, surprise) Alan and Reva. She confronted him over her contract with him. They were SO much more interesting as adversaries. (She got in some exquisite digs at him for being like Brandon, who that week was back to being a monster again). It would have worked so much better if Alan and Reva had had the adversarial relationship and Alan and India had had a more romantic relationship.

But, of course, every man in sight had to be in love with Reva...

Edited June 15Jun 15 by DeeVee

3 hours ago, P.J. said:

I'm not sure why bad writing seems to ripple through the entire look of the show. You'd think that direction or wardrobe would be immune somehow.

But you're right---1986 is not good.

But, on the upside, I found the episode of Vanessa in her red/Scarlett/feather dress. Someone must have missed the memo that only Reva's allowed to wear red.

I noticed the same thing with Another World during the similar time frame. The writing and direction quality were erratic depending on the day. I am enjoying AW more, but it's not much of a compliment. The acting is stronger on AW in 1986 than on GL. It feels like the writers at GL don't know who these characters are and the dialogue reflects that. The writing on GL is so generic at times that the dialogue could be switched to other characters and you wouldn't even notice.

6 hours ago, DeeVee said:

The amount of HW changes over the year is insane. I counted five. 

5 HW changes in one year?!!!!... Wow, this should be illegal in the world of soap opera. Wretched.  

6 hours ago, chrisml said:

I noticed the same thing with Another World during the similar time frame. The writing and direction quality were erratic depending on the day. I am enjoying AW more, but it's not much of a compliment. The acting is stronger on AW in 1986 than on GL. It feels like the writers at GL don't know who these characters are and the dialogue reflects that. The writing on GL is so generic at times that the dialogue could be switched to other characters and you wouldn't even notice.

This is quite enlightening to me because I'm so accustomed to thinking that all of this exec turnover & the massive problems it caused for the 3 P&G/NY soaps began in 1995. It wouldn't be an exaggeration to say it is shocking to me that it possibly had started 4-5 years earlier!

2 hours ago, Contessa Donatella said:

This is quite enlightening to me because I'm so accustomed to thinking that all of this exec turnover & the massive problems it caused for the 3 P&G/NY soaps began in 1995. It wouldn't be an exaggeration to say it is shocking to me that it possibly had started 4-5 years earlier!

It was enlightening to me to how unstable the writing regimes are at GL after the Dobsons leave in '80. Marland had two years. Long does 2 three year stints. Curlee/Demorest (with Reilly and Broderick) last about three and actually dovetail with Long's last tenure. Starting with '94, I don't think anyone lasts more than a year until Kriezman in '05.

That's appalling.

9 hours ago, chrisml said:

I noticed the same thing with Another World during the similar time frame. The writing and direction quality were erratic depending on the day. I am enjoying AW more, but it's not much of a compliment. The acting is stronger on AW in 1986 than on GL. It feels like the writers at GL don't know who these characters are and the dialogue reflects that. The writing on GL is so generic at times that the dialogue could be switched to other characters and you wouldn't even notice.

Yeah, '86 is just broken. If anyone ever asks again, Infinity is no longer the worst story.  Cain/Camp Cauyoga is. 

And, much to my surprise, they added insult to injury and replayed the tribute to Bert at Christmas time.

Edited June 15Jun 15 by P.J.

P&G is responsible for the mess if both AW and GL are going through the same thing in 1986. I'm not versed on production history pre-1986 for either show but my sense is AW was having problems for longer than GL. Someone was asleep over at P&G or just didn't care. GL feels as if it's being written during a writer's strike. 

As an idea of what I'm talking about with how bad GL got in terms of overall quality control, I give you last two minutes or so of this video: 

 

7 minutes ago, chrisml said:

P&G is responsible for the mess if both AW and GL are going through the same thing in 1986. I'm not versed on production history pre-1986 for either show but my sense is AW was having problems for longer than GL. Someone was asleep over at P&G or just didn't care. GL feels as if it's being written during a writer's strike. 

As an idea of what I'm talking about with how bad GL got in terms of overall quality control, I give you last two minutes or so of this video: 

 

Thank you for providing that laugh for me... this is hilarious.🤣

4 hours ago, P.J. said:

It was enlightening to me to how unstable the writing regimes are at GL after the Dobsons leave in '80. Marland had two years. Long does 2 three year stints. Curlee/Demorest (with Reilly and Broderick) last about three and actually dovetail with Long's last tenure.

I had my issues with Marland, but it's impossible not to think about the might have been if he had not stomped off in a huff in 1982. Change was likely inevitable, regardless--Allen Potter, the EP at the time, retired because he had cancer. But I have to wonder what would have happened it Kobe "f!ck you all, I can fire who I want" had come on with Marland still head writing. Maybe he would have left anyway. OR, maybe he would have fought back against some of the changes she wanted to make, or at least handled those changes better.

Look at what was happening over at ATWT by 1986 -- the ratings actually going up, while also in a creative upturn -- compared to GL. A huge turnover of characters, including the shrinking of the Bauers, some epically bad storylines, a definite downturn in the quality of much of the production.

You see some really poorly made decisions and desperate attempts to correct them. Simon is the perfect example of this. They killed off Lujack and tried to fill the gap with Simon and recapture the popularity of Lujack/Beth with Simon and Jessie. I didn't mind the actor so much, but the million different ways they tried to make this character happen are just SO obvious. (The last episode I watched he was off to fight some guerillas, LOL).

When I found the German channel with 1986 episodes, I was like, "Aw, man, I wish I could see these in English!" Now, I think I enjoyed them more in German. 

18 minutes ago, chrisml said:

GL feels as if it's being written during a writer's strike.

YES! Perfect way of putting it.

OMG, Cain's villain laugh is right out of a cartoon!

Edited June 15Jun 15 by DeeVee

39 minutes ago, DeeVee said:

I had my issues with Marland, but it's impossible not to think about the might have been if he had not stomped off in a huff in 1982. Change was likely inevitable, regardless--Allen Potter, the EP at the time, retired because he had cancer. But I have to wonder what would have happened it Kobe "f!ck you all, I can fire who I want" had come on with Marland still head writing. Maybe he would have left anyway. OR, maybe he would have fought back against some of the changes she wanted to make, or at least handled those changes better.

Look at what was happening over at ATWT by 1986 -- the ratings actually going up, while also in a creative upturn -- compared to GL. A huge turnover of characters, including the shrinking of the Bauers, some epically bad storylines, a definite downturn in the quality of much of the production.

You see some really poorly made decisions and desperate attempts to correct them. Simon is the perfect example of this. They killed off Lujack and tried to fill the gap with Simon and recapture the popularity of Lujack/Beth with Simon and Jessie. I didn't mind the actor so much, but the million different ways they tried to make this character happen are just SO obvious. (The last episode I watched he was off to fight some guerillas, LOL).

When I found the German channel with 1986 episodes, I was like, "Aw, man, I wish I could see these in English!" Now, I think I enjoyed them more in German. 

Agreed. As much as I love Marland, I could see Potter's point---another year of wandering through Carrie's alters would've been pointless. (Shades of the Sonni/Solita story, which is just a mess, though that's due in part to the writers strike.) I just wish they'd have been able to settle it amicably and keep working together. 

5 hours ago, P.J. said:

It was enlightening to me to how unstable the writing regimes are at GL after the Dobsons leave in '80. Marland had two years. Long does 2 three year stints. Curlee/Demorest (with Reilly and Broderick) last about three and actually dovetail with Long's last tenure. Starting with '94, I don't think anyone lasts more than a year until Kriezman in '05.

That's appalling.

B&E last from spring 97 to spring or summer 00. They're the exception. I suppose they mostly just wrote what Rauch wanted anyway, although I do think they held the show together (at least the more generic show GL was by that point) in spite of San Cristobel and the mob and some very poor choices like Holly the Pied Piper. Everything seems to spiral way out of control as soon as they leave. It's certainly fascinating to document but at the time was churning to sit through.

1 hour ago, DeeVee said:

I had my issues with Marland, but it's impossible not to think about the might have been if he had not stomped off in a huff in 1982. Change was likely inevitable, regardless--Allen Potter, the EP at the time, retired because he had cancer. But I have to wonder what would have happened it Kobe "f!ck you all, I can fire who I want" had come on with Marland still head writing. Maybe he would have left anyway. OR, maybe he would have fought back against some of the changes she wanted to make, or at least handled those changes better.

I can't see Marland wanting to deal with Kobe. I do wonder what might have been if he'd stayed longer, as what I've watched of 1982 doesn't exactly bowl me over and I'm not sure what future story was being planned. I think you or someone else suggested the groundwork being laid for a Rita return. That would have been interesting. 

I actually loved the Sonni/Solita story and the writers strike made it even more like a mystery with the red herrings, etc.   Also, Michelle Forbes was a more compelling actress/presence in the role then Jane Elliott was as Carrie.  

The other thing was that we kind of got to see Sonni after her personalities were integrated during the last six months or so of her stint on the show and it's a shame that Forbes only had a 2 year contract instead of a 3 year contract since I was intrigued to see her dynamic with Roger develop... and her few scenes she had opposite Blake could have developed into a full on feud.

Had she stayed an extra year... we wouldn't have gotten Alexandra/Roger's marriage nor do I think we would have had Roger/Mindy's affair.   I think Forbes leaving at the end of 1989 caused the writers to make the above story choices.

32 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

I can't see Marland wanting to deal with Kobe. I do wonder what might have been if he'd stayed longer, as what I've watched of 1982 doesn't exactly bowl me over and I'm not sure what future story was being planned. I think you or someone else suggested the groundwork being laid for a Rita return. That would have been interesting.

It was that Carrie story. I think he was too much invested in it. He had stalled Alan and Hope as a happily married couple living in a sweet little cottage. The Mark Evans storyline was a bust. So definitely not his best work. I think the most popular thing during that era was Nola and Quint and that wasn't to everyone's taste. And yes, it seemed obvious he was setting up a Rita return. 

Didn't someone here say that Marland's soap bibles are in a library somewhere? I wonder if his planned stories that would have been after his departure are in those.

The EP definitely makes a difference. Yes, he might have had a big problem with Kobe. His EP at ATWT in that era when the ratings went up was Robert Calhoun. Many people credit him with turning GL around after a disappointing period that lasted almost a decade.

Edited June 15Jun 15 by DeeVee