3 hours ago, P.J. said:

What's odd---just from a continuity point of view---is that they've completely written out Vanessa's engagement to Alan. If you didn't know the history, Ross makes it sound like Vanessa just walked out on him to go take care of Billy. They had broken up. He had either slept with Meredith or come damn close to it. She was engaged to Alan, and ditched him to go help Billy (not only because it was Billy but essentially because she admitted to herself that she didn't love Alan and knew he was using her as an emotional buffer to Reva) It was less than two years before, and written by Long, so why the situation was oversimplified, I don't understand.

I'm going to guess the reason for that at this point is they were moving away from Alan--I think Pilon appears only a few more times late 1989, then Alan is gone for the next five years. So maybe they decided, why dredge up any history to do with him?

I find it almost hilarious that Ross was acting hurt over something that didn't even happen over 2 years previously!

Were they toying with a Holly/Johnny pairing? 🤢

Honestly, watching teen-aged boys obsessing over babies is kind of bizarre. And how ironic that AM ended up never having children.

(Ross almost slept with Meredith? I do not remember this!)

40 minutes ago, DeeVee said:

I'm going to guess the reason for that at this point is they were moving away from Alan--I think Pilon appears only a few more times late 1989, then Alan is gone for the next five years. So maybe they decided, why dredge up any history to do with him?

I find it almost hilarious that Ross was acting hurt over something that didn't even happen over 2 years previously!

Were they toying with a Holly/Johnny pairing? 🤢

Honestly, watching teen-aged boys obsessing over babies is kind of bizarre. And how ironic that AM ended up never having children.

(Ross almost slept with Meredith? I do not remember this!)

re: Alan, there's also the fact that Alan/Vanessa were never that serious a couple. I wouldn't think they'd need to remind the audience about Van/Billy's connection, but maybe that was part of it too?

There was a period where it looked like Holly/Johnny were vibing. She was trying to build him into a media host, Chelsea was jealous, etc. Frank is even trying to flirt with her and Johnny heads him off.

Van and Ross were on the outs, but still kind of circling each other. Then during the AM/Dinah/stolen motorcycle drama (where they'd crashed into Harley) Alan proposes to Van. Van doesn't give him an answer, but Alan lets it "slip" to Ross. Ross storms off. I'm not exactly sure how Meredith got pulled in, but in one episode, they're naked in bed. There's some joke about limp pizza, which can be interpreted as meaning nothing happened. For whatever reason, Vanessa shows up at Ross', and I think Meredith walks out in his robe. Van runs out, and accepts Alan's proposal via telegram. Alan and Reva are in Hawaii on a "business" trip. Alan then goes out to buy Van a ring, which Reva appropriates to teach Alan some kind of lesson. Alan then lets her keep it, and buys a second ring for Van.

It should be Nov/Dec '87. Josh and Sonni then show up in Hawaii on their honeymoon, and Van shows up and there's tension there between Reva/Alan/Van about the ring. There's some kind of realization on Reva and Alan's part that their games have hurt Vanessa. I'm not sure a lot of that's up in English, though.

On 3/8/2026 at 1:35 PM, alwaysAMC said:

I can't remember if this was already discussed, but I ran across a new YT channel called BauerBBQ and this person is uploading tons of full episodes, as of 3 weeks ago. It looks like they have more to add, but for now they have all of 1999, 2000, 2003, 2005, 2008, 2009... but more importantly, a TON of 1989 episodes. Unfortunately it doesn't have every single episode, and I'm not sure how it compares to what's in the Vault for that year, but definitely is interesting. It's becoming like the old Blake Marler channel, but hopefully this one doesn't get taken down any time soon.

https://www.youtube.com/@Bauer_BBQ

@alwaysAMC Thank you very much for this information.

Annette

19 hours ago, Speed Racer said:

Van/Holly anything would have been interesting. There's an undefined obliqueness (for lack of a better descriptor) between those two that I find fascinating. Story? If not a Ross/Holly/Van triangle, then have Roger blackmail Holly of all people, with her ticket out of the mess being the destruction of Vanessa's career. Via WSPR, naturally.

I wished the writers had given Vanessa and Holly more scenes together. I think having these two actresses share the screen together more would have been a smart move.

This is a great scene between the two.

Annette

Wow. This scene shows exactly why I checked out of GL for a while during this period, even though it is considered one of its strongest.

"Roger is only a problem to Holly because she let's him be a problem" is just plain old victim blaming. I hate it.

Also, I don't believe she would be pushing Vanessa to go to the authorities about her attack because the system had TOTALLY failed her. Why would she press her to go through what she went through when she flat-out admits Roger never paid for his crimes?

I understand why they had to whitewash Roger and his past, otherwise he would have never been a viable character going forward. But it makes me cringe to watch it..

I think it's a wonderful scene. And an excellent use of history. I can understand Holly's point of view. Vanessa had already chosen to report it. She could see Vanessa was backing down, not necessarily because she wanted to, but because she felt she needed to protect Bill and Henry. Is it a pie-in-the-sky idea of Holly's that she'd be "whole" if she'd been vindicated and Roger had gone to prison? Maybe.

I do think GL chickened out on another opportunity to have Roger confront his past. Because, unless I'm just skipping over episodes, Roger pretty much kept his mouth shut about the entire situation. Gilly makes reference to Roger (who's running WSPR) preference on how the story is edited. But normally, Roger would've been licking his lips at the chaos at Spaulding and looking to gain an advantage through it.

I just finished July 14, 1993 and a whole bunch has happened in the past 4-5 episodes. Things are really humming right now.

The cliffside cabin attack by John Davis is resolved when Roger/Ed decide to work together. Ed hangs out on the roof to jump while Roger lures John Davis out with Holly/Michelle. Ed manages to jump in at the right time and Roger very briefly tussles with Davis before flipping him over the railing where they show him falling very, very far to his presumed death. Ed is hanging off the deck and eventually Roger saves him.

In the dead of the night Ed drives Michelle home on a mountain road after having a near death experience, which is an interesting choice given how Maureen died. He and Michelle have a nice bonding moment. Roger and Holly decide to stay overnight and connect, talking about acting like it's the end of the world. They eventually have sex (twice, the second time when Holly is already showing doubt). In the light of day, Holly clearly has regrets and Roger is elated and keeps telling her how much he loves her and eventually proposes. She turns him down, saying that she just wants a calmer life and can't spend the rest of her life defending the shady things he does to the people around her. He gets angry and tells her it's really because she wants Ed, and that now he wishes he'd let Ed die. This sequence of Roger/Holly might be one of the best encapsulations I've seen. You completely understand why Holly was swept away by Roger's heroics (and she was already softening earlier when he was being sweet with Michelle and setting off fireworks gleefully) but also how his immediate leaping all in instantly scares her away. It gets ugly really fast and it really runs the whole gamut of emotions between these two.

No one appears to call the cops about John Davis falling off the mountain, but Nick receives something off the wire reporting the whole situation as AM walks in. AM is worried about how Ed/Michelle are doing and rushes over to talk to Ed. There's a cute moment where AM tries to take care of Ed some by offering to make Ed scrambled eggs, which Ed strongly doubts AM is capable of doing (and then says he's not hungry anyhow). Michelle just misses AM but lights up when Ed tells her he was there and that he's coming back later for dinner when he gets off work-I love the moments with tween Michelle when she gets excited by the "cool" adults like Blake/AM/Bridget. It's striking how different stuff like this is just a couple years later when basically no one reacts to people being in danger unless they're directly in the plot.

Roger goes immediately home to tell Blake the two of them are going to start their empire at WSPR and Blake gently turns him down saying Ross is her dream now. Roger lashes out and says what does she really have-no ring, no job, etc. Blake stands firm and says she's happy.

Ed is worried about Holly when she doesn't come home until later, and Michelle tells him she believes Holly is interested in Roger. When Holly arrives she says Roger asked her to marry him and it was difficult, and Ed straight out asks if they slept together but Holly lies and says no.

Hart gets into an altercation with Vinnie, one of the local hoodlums who used to work construction for Dylan but got fired. Hart is upset about Julie/Dylan and basically tries to commit suicide by hoodlum in the pool hall but Bridget talks David into intervening. when they are close to strangling Hart. The owner breaks it up and Hart/Bridget leave. Kat and David head out but are surrounded in the alley but the owner breaks it up again after Vinnie & Co make racist slurs, then say David will regret it.

David is sure they're going to the diner because they've harassed Stavros and vandalized the diner before. Kat begs him not to go but he goes anyhow, and David arrives after Stavros has already been beaten with a baseball bat by Vinnie. Kat follows David and is held at knifepoint while Vinnie threatens to rape her and makes a series of grotesque racial slurs towards both David/Kat. This whole scene is pretty shockingly harrowing and brutal. Eventually, David manages to get the knife away and save Kat as Vinnie runs to the alley. David plans to let him go then sees what he did to Stavros, and grabs the knife and heads to the alley. They fight and Vinnie gets stabbed and dies. Kat is in complete shock and David says a prayer and leaves a crying Kat as he hears the police sirens. It turns out Vinnie is the nephew of a police officer.

After striking out with Holly/Blake, Roger breaks into Hamp/Gilly's apartment and is sitting in the living room when Gilly arrives. He tells Gilly she has to return to WSPR and threatens to tell Hamp about David's arrest for murder where David took the fall for David when he was 15. Gilly keeps refusing but Hamp walks in. Roger tells Hamp that he can't believe Hamp let Kat date a murderer. Gilly keeps swearing that David isn't a murderer but can't spit out the truth. Hamp doesn't believe her and kicks her out.

Roger goes full throttle on painting David as a serial killer. Bridget hides David in the garage apartment since Eve is gone. (I love their friendship and how she never hesitated to help him.) Of course, somehow the hospital has declared Eve well enough to rejoin society and she is ready to move back into the apartment. Bridget/David hide as Ed/Eve try to enter.

Gilly tries to get a room as AM is there with a model he knew in NYC who is in town for one night only. Before AM gets to the elevator with her he spots the hotel clerk giving Gilly a hard time about getting a room. AM steps in and throws around the Spaulding name and the hotel clerk gives Gilly a free upgrade. The model has no patience for this and blows him off, which he shrugs off. They bond over how they were the ones responsible for their respective relationships' demise by breaking the trust. AM tries to persuade Gilly to work at the Journal. She's about to go to the room when she sees the news about the manhunt for David. She tells AM she doesn't want to just compete against Roger, she is out for revenge.

Early 1993 was a bit slow moving, but they've really ratcheted things up without anything feeling rushed. The David/Kat plot is really gripping, and I am somewhat taken aback by just how overtly racist and brutal the attack was. It's not something I really expect from this show, but it makes it all very gripping.

Edited 13 hours ago13 hr by GL95

7 hours ago, GL95 said:

I just finished July 14, 1993 and a whole bunch has happened in the past 4-5 episodes. Things are really humming right now.

The cliffside cabin attack by John Davis is resolved when Roger/Ed decide to work together. Ed hangs out on the roof to jump while Roger lures John Davis out with Holly/Michelle. Ed manages to jump in at the right time and Roger very briefly tussles with Davis before flipping him over the railing where they show him falling very, very far to his presumed death. Ed is hanging off the deck and eventually Roger saves him.

In the dead of the night Ed drives Michelle home on a mountain road after having a near death experience, which is an interesting choice given how Maureen died. He and Michelle have a nice bonding moment. Roger and Holly decide to stay overnight and connect, talking about acting like it's the end of the world. They eventually have sex (twice, the second time when Holly is already showing doubt). In the light of day, Holly clearly has regrets and Roger is elated and keeps telling her how much he loves her and eventually proposes. She turns him down, saying that she just wants a calmer life and can't spend the rest of her life defending the shady things he does to the people around her. He gets angry and tells her it's really because she wants Ed, and that now he wishes he'd let Ed die. This sequence of Roger/Holly might be one of the best encapsulations I've seen. You completely understand why Holly was swept away by Roger's heroics (and she was already softening earlier when he was being sweet with Michelle and setting off fireworks gleefully) but also how his immediate leaping all in instantly scares her away. It gets ugly really fast and it really runs the whole gamut of emotions between these two.

No one appears to call the cops about John Davis falling off the mountain, but Nick receives something off the wire reporting the whole situation as AM walks in. AM is worried about how Ed/Michelle are doing and rushes over to talk to Ed. There's a cute moment where AM tries to take care of Ed some by offering to make Ed scrambled eggs, which Ed strongly doubts AM is capable of doing (and then says he's not hungry anyhow). Michelle just misses AM but lights up when Ed tells her he was there and that he's coming back later for dinner when he gets off work-I love the moments with tween Michelle when she gets excited by the "cool" adults like Blake/AM/Bridget. It's striking how different stuff like this is just a couple years later when basically no one reacts to people being in danger unless they're directly in the plot.

Roger goes immediately home to tell Blake the two of them are going to start their empire at WSPR and Blake gently turns him down saying Ross is her dream now. Roger lashes out and says what does she really have-no ring, no job, etc. Blake stands firm and says she's happy.

Ed is worried about Holly when she doesn't come home until later, and Michelle tells him she believes Holly is interested in Roger. When Holly arrives she says Roger asked her to marry him and it was difficult, and Ed straight out asks if they slept together but Holly lies and says no.

Hart gets into an altercation with Vinnie, one of the local hoodlums who used to work construction for Dylan but got fired. Hart is upset about Julie/Dylan and basically tries to commit suicide by hoodlum in the pool hall but Bridget talks David into intervening. when they are close to strangling Hart. The owner breaks it up and Hart/Bridget leave. Kat and David head out but are surrounded in the alley but the owner breaks it up again after Vinnie & Co make racist slurs, then say David will regret it.

David is sure they're going to the diner because they've harassed Stavros and vandalized the diner before. Kat begs him not to go but he goes anyhow, and David arrives after Stavros has already been beaten with a baseball bat by Vinnie. Kat follows David and is held at knifepoint while Vinnie threatens to rape her and makes a series of grotesque racial slurs towards both David/Kat. This whole scene is pretty shockingly harrowing and brutal. Eventually, David manages to get the knife away and save Kat as Vinnie runs to the alley. David plans to let him go then sees what he did to Stavros, and grabs the knife and heads to the alley. They fight and Vinnie gets stabbed and dies. Kat is in complete shock and David says a prayer and leaves a crying Kat as he hears the police sirens. It turns out Vinnie is the nephew of a police officer.

After striking out with Holly/Blake, Roger breaks into Hamp/Gilly's apartment and is sitting in the living room when Gilly arrives. He tells Gilly she has to return to WSPR and threatens to tell Hamp about David's arrest for murder where David took the fall for David when he was 15. Gilly keeps refusing but Hamp walks in. Roger tells Hamp that he can't believe Hamp let Kat date a murderer. Gilly keeps swearing that David isn't a murderer but can't spit out the truth. Hamp doesn't believe her and kicks her out.

Roger goes full throttle on painting David as a serial killer. Bridget hides David in the garage apartment since Eve is gone. (I love their friendship and how she never hesitated to help him.) Of course, somehow the hospital has declared Eve well enough to rejoin society and she is ready to move back into the apartment. Bridget/David hide as Ed/Eve try to enter.

Gilly tries to get a room as AM is there with a model he knew in NYC who is in town for one night only. Before AM gets to the elevator with her he spots the hotel clerk giving Gilly a hard time about getting a room. AM steps in and throws around the Spaulding name and the hotel clerk gives Gilly a free upgrade. The model has no patience for this and blows him off, which he shrugs off. They bond over how they were the ones responsible for their respective relationships' demise by breaking the trust. AM tries to persuade Gilly to work at the Journal. She's about to go to the room when she sees the news about the manhunt for David. She tells AM she doesn't want to just compete against Roger, she is out for revenge.

Early 1993 was a bit slow moving, but they've really ratcheted things up without anything feeling rushed. The David/Kat plot is really gripping, and I am somewhat taken aback by just how overtly racist and brutal the attack was. It's not something I really expect from this show, but it makes it all very gripping.

I suspected you'd like that second week of July 1993! (And I encourage everyone here who is already familiar to go back and rewatch that week. Crammed with good material, nearly non-stop. Not only Roger/Holly and Ed/Michelle, but Gilly/Hamp/Roger as well).

Monto Sharp is outstanding in those diner scenes. Just the look on his face! And poor Stavros. I really liked Stavros.

GL won for the Emmy for Best Writing of 1993. When you see what you just saw, GL95, it's no wonder.

Not sure why some people here admonish 1993 (resentful over the loss of Maureen, perhaps)? Things start to slide late in the year, but not until then.

1 minute ago, Speed Racer said:

I suspected you'd like that second week of July 1993! (And I encourage everyone here who is already familiar to go back and rewatch that week. Crammed with good material, nearly non-stop. Not only Roger/Holly and Ed/Michelle, but Gilly/Hamp/Roger as well).

Monto Sharp is outstanding in those diner scenes. Just the look on his face! And poor Stavros. I really liked Stavros.

GL won for the Emmy for Best Writing of 1993. When you see what you just saw, GL95, it's no wonder.

Not sure why some people here admonish 1993 (resentful over the loss of Maureen, perhaps)? Things start to slide late in the year, but not until then.

And Kevin McClatchey (Vinnie) would have made an excellent AM recast, post Rick Hearst. I could see McClatchey going head-to-head with Grant Aleksander.

(McClatchey also could have been a decent Nick Spaulding, had Irizarry left the show before the character did. But, I'd prefer him as AM).

3 hours ago, Speed Racer said:

And Kevin McClatchey (Vinnie) would have made an excellent AM recast, post Rick Hearst. I could see McClatchey going head-to-head with Grant Aleksander.

(McClatchey also could have been a decent Nick Spaulding, had Irizarry left the show before the character did. But, I'd prefer him as AM).

What’s funny is I’d actually thought Frank Beaty would be a good AM replacement had he of course never been Brent. All the most violent villains haha

3 hours ago, Speed Racer said:

I suspected you'd like that second week of July 1993! (And I encourage everyone here who is already familiar to go back and rewatch that week. Crammed with good material, nearly non-stop. Not only Roger/Holly and Ed/Michelle, but Gilly/Hamp/Roger as well).

Monto Sharp is outstanding in those diner scenes. Just the look on his face! And poor Stavros. I really liked Stavros.

GL won for the Emmy for Best Writing of 1993. When you see what you just saw, GL95, it's no wonder.

Not sure why some people here admonish 1993 (resentful over the loss of Maureen, perhaps)? Things start to slide late in the year, but not until then.

I do think the show benefited from a reset and JFP’s instincts were right about that. As some have said, the Ed/Mo marriage blowing up would have worked just as well if not better. It would have been agonizing for characters like Bridget/Blake/AM for Ed to have a fall from grace and their model for stable family go away.

But yes I’m liking this period-it’s the perfect balance of character and plot IMO.

12 hours ago, GL95 said:

I just finished July 14, 1993 and a whole bunch has happened in the past 4-5 episodes. Things are really humming right now.

Early 1993 was a bit slow moving, but they've really ratcheted things up without anything feeling rushed. The David/Kat plot is really gripping, and I am somewhat taken aback by just how overtly racist and brutal the attack was. It's not something I really expect from this show, but it makes it all very gripping.

4 hours ago, Speed Racer said:

I suspected you'd like that second week of July 1993! (And I encourage everyone here who is already familiar to go back and rewatch that week. Crammed with good material, nearly non-stop. Not only Roger/Holly and Ed/Michelle, but Gilly/Hamp/Roger as well).

Monto Sharp is outstanding in those diner scenes. Just the look on his face! And poor Stavros. I really liked Stavros.

GL won for the Emmy for Best Writing of 1993. When you see what you just saw, GL95, it's no wonder.

Not sure why some people here admonish 1993 (resentful over the loss of Maureen, perhaps)? Things start to slide late in the year, but not until then.

Y'all have me excited for this, thanks for sharing!!!

Btw, recaps coming later, but I just got to the very beginning of San Cristobel! Reva finds a mysterious ring with a royal crest on it...

And I have NO idea that Jesse Sofer was on GL!!! I really liked him on ATWT during that year I watched.

36 minutes ago, alwaysAMC said:

And I have NO idea that Jesse Sofer was on GL!!! I really liked him on ATWT during that year I watched.

He's not there for long. But yeah, he is very likeable as Max.