50 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

I think Maureen Garrett also benefited from the life experience of another decade. She's good in what I've seen of her first run, and she does what she can with her poor run on Ryan's Hope, but she is luminous by the time of her return to Springfield.

I agree totally. While I didn't think EJ on Ryan's Hope was a well-conceived character, I very much enjoyed MG's performance.

It's interesting that everyone being named: Alex, India, Blake, Jenna...they pulled back on all of them either because of a romantic connection, or, like in Alex's and India's cases, because of love for their children.

If Alex was meant to be a bitch, you don't start off right away with a sob story about her child being stolen from her. I think they tried to harden her after Lujack was killed off, but there were always Alan's children around to soften her. And of course Simon, who for a while practically turned her into a jelly fish.

13 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

That scene where Nola starts raging about how much she hates Morgan and can't even bear hearing her name is astonishingly good at showing just how dark Lisa Brown could have gone with Nola.

I'm going to say something that's maybe a bit controversial: I don't think Marland liked Morgan. There was a kind of underlying contempt for her, especially early on. Those lectures Kelly gave her were insanely hostile a lot of the time. And it seemed like the audience was supposed to be nodding and agreeing with him.

Morgan was meant to be a way for teen girls to dream about falling in love with an older boy (O.K., let's face it--man). The whole storyline was created to attract a younger audience. But I always got the feeling that she was not really loved by her own creator. I believe when Nola talked about hating Morgan, WE were supposed to hate her, too. Supposedly, Marland always meant for Kelly and Nola to get together for real at some point, so it would make sense for him to see Morgan, and not Nola, as the spoiler in the triangle.

Regardless of how anyone feels about that, it is absolutely true that Nola was softened a great deal because the pairing with Quinton took off and was very popular with a vocal section of the audience. Which is probably why they had so much trouble coming up with stories for her after she had her second kid.

The premise that having a child or falling in love suddenly makes someone a nicer person is very odd to me. (I never found that to be the case in real life, LOL). I don't see why characters like Alex, India, or Blake had to lose their edge because they genuinely loved someone. Roger genuinely loved Christina, but he never lost his edge.

Edited 12 hours ago12 hr by DeeVee

Hate might be a reach, but Marland may have found Morgan a bit frustrating to write for. She's like sixteen, and wasn't written like a font of wisdom (that I remember anyway) unlike the tendency with teens in later years. She also had to be gullible to Nola's machinations. And maybe, if the rumors are true and Kristen V was coming to work underprepared, it carried over to his writing.

It's hard for me to judge now, I'm not really interested in the Morgan part of the story. It's Nola that I gravitate to.

7 minutes ago, DeeVee said:

I agree totally. While I didn't think EJ on Ryan's Hope was a well-conceived character, I very much enjoyed MG's performance.

It's interesting that everyone being named: Alex, India, Blake, Jenna...they pulled back on all of them either because of a romantic connection, or, like in Alex's and India's cases, because of love for their children.

If Alex was meant to be a bitch, you don't start off right away with a sob story about her child being stolen from her. I think they tried to harden her after Lujack was killed off, but there were always Alan's children around to soften her. And of course Simon, who for a while practically turned her into a jelly fish.

I'm going to say something that's maybe a bit controversial: I don't think Marland liked Morgan. There was a kind of underlying contempt for her, especially early on. Those lectures Kelly gave her were insanely hostile a lot of the time. And it seemed like the audience was supposed to be nodding and agreeing with him.

Morgan was meant to be a way for teen girls to dream about falling in love with an older boy (O.K., let's face it--man). The whole storyline was created to attract a younger audience. But I always got the feeling that she was not really loved by her own creator. I believe when Nola talked about hating Morgan, WE were supposed to hate her, too. Supposedly, Marland always meant for Kelly and Nola to get together for real at some point, so it would make sense for him to see Morgan, and not Nola, as the spoiler in the triangle.

Regardless of how anyone feels about that, it is absolutely true that Nola was softened a great deal because the pairing with Quinton took off and was very popular with a vocal section of the audience.

The premise that having a child or falling in love suddenly makes someone a nicer person is very odd to me. (I never found that to be the case in real life, LOL). I don't see why characters like Alex, India, or Blake had to lose their edge because they genuinely loved someone. Roger genuinely loved Christina, but he never lost his edge.

You're right that it was a very antiquated idea about female characters. Alex may have come the closest to having loved ones but still going to dark places.

I have wondered if any '80s powers that be may have wanted to make Alex darker, but Beverlee and the fans didn't want to see her go dark. I imagine Alan's departure for several years was one reason (as Alan brought out her worst, along with Roger). Another was that the Alexis Carrington offshoots on '80s soaps were often given layers which started to fade by the '90s.

The attempts from '90s writers to make Alex into a darker character were generally unpopular all around and just ended up making her a buffoon by Marj's era - if only more skillful writing and casting had been in place, but I think Amanda could have easily filled that void instead of Alex, especially since Alex grew up with some love...Amanda only ever had pain.

You make a good point about Morgan. Under Kristen Vigard, I do think we were meant to see her at least in part as immature, trying to pretend she was the woman she was not. (note that we were never supposed to question Kelly getting involved with a woman ten years his junior and trying to make her a woman).

I always question where the part would be that makes Kelly fall in love with Nola. Maybe that would entail Stacey being very sick and Kelly seeing how much Nola loved her.

42 minutes ago, P.J. said:

Hate might be a reach, but Marland may have found Morgan a bit frustrating to write for. She's like sixteen, and wasn't written like a font of wisdom (that I remember anyway) unlike the tendency with teens in later years. She also had to be gullible to Nola's machinations. And maybe, if the rumors are true and Kristen V was coming to work underprepared, it carried over to his writing.

It's hard for me to judge now, I'm not really interested in the Morgan part of the story. It's Nola that I gravitate to.

I find Vigard fascinating to watch, as much as Brown, but once she's gone, there's nothing left. Jennifer Cooke only finds her voice in the role post-Marland, post-booting Kelly and acting her age.

I can't help comparing Morgan vs. Nola to Lily vs. Meg. They started out very similar, and early on, Marland allowed Lily to be portrayed as bratty and get called out. Along the way he seemed to begin seeing her as much more sympathetic and was reluctant to criticize her, and the rivalry with Meg faded as Meg was isolated and had to learn some very ugly lessons.

If Meg/Dusty/Lily had continued, instead of Holden/Lily taking off, then he may have kept playing some of those old beats a second time around.

The character of Morgan was just a typical naive teenager and didn't have a lot of layers... but Vigard was such a unique individual that she basically was the character of Morgan. Once she was let go and recast, the character basically was a plot point and not a real character.

Marland was great with intricate plot, but his characters were basically paint by number unless there was a talented performer that breathed life into the character. Vanessa, Nola, Morgan (as played by Vigard), and to a lesser extent Maureen were basically paint by number characters that had strong performers that added texture and layers to the characters.

Long, on the other hand, could really write a compelling character and was a pro at writing male friendships and characters... but her plots could be hit or miss and all over the place.

A character like Holly is interesting to see because she was written by the Dobsons, Marland, Long, and Curlee... four well known head-writers that established totally distinct and unique eras of GL over an almost twenty year time frame.

I saw notable differences on how Holly was written by Long in 1988-1990 vs how Curlee approached Holly in 1991 to 1993. If you watched episodes of Holly in 1989/1990, she appeared confident and decisive with little conflict over how she felt about Roger while Curlee seemed to focus more on her neurotic tendencies and her unhealthy attachment to Roger. It was still the same character, but each head-writer decided to highlight different facets of her personality.

Also, Nadine had a visible change in how she was written by Long vs Curlee. Nadine was more a schemer and social climber hosting the Love Bug and having a fling with Billy under Long while Curlee presented a more desperate Nadine trying to keep a hold of Billy instead of cutting her losses and focusing on her next prospect/scheme.

Edited 9 hours ago9 hr by Soaplovers

I saw some Reva/Annie scenes and God... this is some addicting to watch stuff. I don't know for how long the show kept that feud fresh... (I left off in late 1993 and never came back). Does anyone know when Reva comes back to the show?

Edited 8 hours ago8 hr by Maxim

4 minutes ago, Maxim said:

I saw some Reva/Annie scenes and God... this is some addicting to watch stuff. I don't know for how long the show kept that feud fresh... (I left off in late 1993 and never came back). Does anyone know when Reva comes back to the show?

Spring 1995. Their feud really starts to build in late 1996 and lasts until spring 1998.

Just now, DRW50 said:

Spring 1995. Their feud really starts to build in late 1996 and lasts until spring 1998.

Thaaaaaaaaaaaaaank you @DRW50 ! ❤️

I’m up to September 15, 1998.

Phillip finds Harley and rushes her to the hospital, while a mysterious person is still watching from a telescope. Rick tells Phillip that someone injected the poison in the apple which was a herbicide, but not enough to kill her, just hurt her. Harley wakes up and keeps telling them it’s her client, Don Minyard, but Phillip admits he made that guy up and wanted to get her business started with money so she would move into a better office/house. When Jenna and Teri arrive, they think about the nursery rhyme and Harley assumes it’s Beth. Phillip privately tells Frank it might be Annie since she’s emailing Alan now, and Frank then tells Teri. Teri goes to Alan Spaulding and questions him about Beth’s whereabouts, but also asks about Annie. She tells Alan she knows about Annie emailing him, how she knows she tried to kill Harley before, and questions his motives behind still wanting to be involved with her. Before leaving, she finds a book of nursery rhymes in his study, leading Teri to believe Beth is involved. Alan claims Beth reads Lizzie nursery rhymes before bed and it means nothing, but Teri warns him that people can reach their limits and Beth has reached hers. The next morning, Harley receives a letter allegedly from Beth that says sorry for doing what she did, but there’s nothing she won’t do to protect her child, so let this be a warning!

Ross helps Holly move back into her house now that Blake is back home and they don’t need a full-time babysitter. As they enter her house, Holly notices things have moved around and finds a half-eaten apple (hmm), so she’s afraid there’s an intruder. It happens to be her brother, Ken! He said he’s sane now and has been in SF for two weeks. Ross calls the hospital and confirms he was released and didn’t escape. Holly decides to let him stay in the basement, where we see him potting soil/herbs/flowers/etc, which was filmed in a creepy way, leading us to believe he might be the one who poisoned Harley (the herbs, the apple he was eating, etc).

Jesse plays more poker and ends up losing everything and can’t take Michelle on her fancy date anymore. The guy he loses to, Mick, who is secretly working with Drew to make Jesse lose his money, winds up being the guy who has Ben/Blake’s videotape! He’s the mystery man who lured Ben/Blake to the docks and he knows all about their story from the news. He taunts them both and lets them bid on the tape, best offer gets it. He wants at least $50K which they both scoff at and he leaves. Blake/Ben vow to bring each other down from there and they leave. Back at home, Blake tells Holly what’s happening and they try to figure out how to come up with the money, which Ken overhears. Later Ken admits to Holly what he heard and tries to talk her into stop drinking and get a hold of her life, and she then pours out her liquor bottles in the sink.

Ben goes to the docks to meet Mick with the money, but Mick has been beaten up and says a man jumped him and stole the tape. We then see Ken go to Blake’s house and he gives her the tape. He tells her what he did, including threatening to kill Mick if he didn’t give over the tape. He comes across pretty insane/unstable though, but she’s overjoyed and says he’s saved her life. Ross shows up first and then Ben, who starts demanding that she give him the tape. Ken walks in and Ben immediately accuses him of beating up Mick and having the tape, since he matches the description Mick gave him. Blake/Ross both say it would be impossible for Blake to have been at the docks since she’s in a wheelchair, but Meta, overhearing the conversation while babysitting the boys, confronts Blake alone and asks why she’s lying about being at the docks since she took her there. Blake begs her not to say anything, but Meta seems unsure. Later, Ben comes back and as Blake tells him she’s going to testify against him in court, he slowly bends down to kiss her as she keeps talking and they kiss for a long time.

Holly gets another letter from Fletcher telling her that Meg is doing well, but that makes her spiral and she wants to take a drink. She calls Ross to help and he takes her home, where dead flowers have been delivered with a ‘Roses are Red..’ note that says she should be dead and Meg is better off without her, signed by the Don Minyard name! Frank comes by to investigate and they realize that Harley got her note on Daisy’s birthday and Holly got hers on Meg’s first day of school.

Beth comes back home and Harley and Phillip confront her about poisoning Harley. She admits to writing that one letter, but says she had nothing to do with a nursery rhyme or poisoned apples and thinks it’s all ridiculous. She’s taken to the police station for questioning, but Ben shows up and takes her out of there and back to his place where they have casual sex to get their minds off things. The next day, Beth tells Phillip that any love she ever had for him evaporated when he accused her of poisoning Harley, and she’s moving on. Phillip apologizes to her and says he’ll always have love for her and they hug and agree to be friends.

Alan and Lizzie open a package that was delivered and inside is a doll wearing a wedding dress. They find a card that says it’s from Annie, and Alan realizes the doll is wearing the wedding dress Annie was wearing on their wedding day. Lizzie then tells Phillip and Harley about the doll. They notice a tag on the doll that says it’s handmade right there in SF and they suspect Annie may be back in town. Phillip now thinks Annie has done everything and not Beth. Harley goes to the dollmaker’s house and she confirms it was a custom doll ordered there in person by a lady with long brown hair and glasses.

Cassie is starting to have dizzy spells so Sean takes her to the hospital. Rick runs tests and tells her she’s pregnant! She’s not overly excited, because she’ll be having a baby at the same time as Dinah now. She runs into Hart/Dinah during Lamaze classes and it upsets her knowing she’ll never have Hart’s full attention. She lashes out on Hart and doesn’t tell him she’s pregnant. Reva calls from her vacation and Cassie tells her the truth and Reva advises her to tell him and to push on finalizing the paternity test with Dinah’s baby.

Dinah invites Vanessa to lunch and apologizes to her about the way she’s behaved (blah), and they agree not to talk about Hart or her relationships and only focus on her baby. Vanessa then invites her to babysit or play with Maureen anytime so she can get experience having a baby. Later, in the park, Vanessa runs into Cassie and realizes she’s pregnant. Cassie denies it, but ultimately comes clean and begs Vanessa not to tell anyone, especially Hart or Dinah.

Jesse ends up taking Michelle on the fancy date and will figure out how to pay for it later. Michelle had such a wonderful time and tells Dahlia about it the next day, but Dahlia is sad because she isn’t seeing much of Marcus anymore since he’s busy touring on the road. She starts to think maybe he’s seeing someone else. David shows up and introduces himself to Dahlia, and she starts asking him for help in figuring out what’s going on with Marcus. Elsewhere, Drew tells Jesse she bought a bar and wants to make it a nightclub, but he doesn’t think it’s a good idea. He later goes to the diner and asks Buzz for money. Buzz is suspicious but gives him the money and Jesse promises to pay him back. As Jesse is about to pay back the loan shark, Mick jumps him from behind and steals the money. Selena thinks Drew is involved, so she goes to Drew’s new bar and threatens her to leave Jesse/Michelle alone. I will say, Drew finally has come alive to me when she’s opposite Selena. Both actresses are more interesting and expressive together, when fighting each other, so I’m here for that.

In a new interview with Monti Sharp, he says the role of David Grant went down to the wire between him and actor Flex Alexander - below video of Flex if you are curious about how he would interpret David Grant

11 hours ago, DRW50 said:

If they'd done a better job recasting and writing for Annie, she may have been the only real female villain in the show's last years.

For a show banking on one character to stir things up..(Reva had things happen to her at this point which is why I always say Zimmer had more interest in air time and her ego then quality material or what was good for the character.) they really f*cked the charater of Annie up..they wanted to grab the ratings (and to prop up Reva as their new Viki Lord) on her way out and made Annie irredeemable...and then brought her back miscast and in the dumbest plot around...( a really good actress could have played her and they could have brought her back as everyone knowing she was Annie ( I would have had Alan had enough of her, intead of the spineless chump they wrote him as, and during their last confrontation with Reva an accident happened and Annie burned her face and went into a coma pending recast and when she wakes up she thinks that REva is still dead and she is married to Josh(which of course the audience would know she is faking it.) But yea they recast Dinah which I thought was a better actress and wrote her better on her second time...they could have gotten someone better for a character they obviously thought they needed.

9 hours ago, DRW50 said:

The attempts from '90s writers to make Alex into a darker character were generally unpopular all around and just ended up making her a buffoon by Marj's era - if only more skillful writing and casting had been in place, but I think Amanda could have easily filled that void instead of Alex, especially since Alex grew up with some love...Amanda only ever had pain.

Here's where I agree about writing Alex off during the Rauch era, Alex needed a breather and Marj/Alex was not working out. Amanda was basically in a family where no one gave a damn about her, her father didnt really love her and would always choose the goeldn boy over her. She knew none of them from her childhood and had no lingering affection that way, she was a total outsider.She could have been Brandon the second coming without being his daughter. That is where they screwed it up.

1 hour ago, Mitch64 said:

Amanda was basically in a family where no one gave a damn about her, her father didnt really love her and would always choose the goeldn boy over her. She knew none of them from her childhood and had no lingering affection that way, she was a total outsider.She could have been Brandon the second coming without being his daughter. That is where they screwed it up.

There was SO much to pull from the past and they didn't do it.

The last year before Amanda was written out the first time, Alan ruthlessly stole the Spaulding presidency from her. She founded LTA, which ultimately failed and was absorbed by Spaulding. Then when she wanted to raise Jennifer's kid, Alan actually plotted to take him from her and put him up for adoption.

When she briefly returned in 1987, she handed over her proxy to Phillip and didn't even ask him what he needed it for. She was all Christmas smiles, but it was obvious she was still p!ssed about the past.

It was unnecessary to make her a madam or Brandon's daughter. That's just using shock value instead of composing an actual story. She had PLENTY of reason to go medieval on Alan and even Alex, who as far as I can tell, never reached out to her over those missing years.

(By the way, did they ever acknowledge that she and Josh were once partners and friends back in the day? I don't recall it, but I wasn't watching that regularly then).

Edited just now1 min by DeeVee