Y&R: Potpourri Thread 2

[brimike]

MOVED FROM EPISODE DISCUSSION THREAD:

I'm only down to two soaps now anyway - Y&R and OLTL. I'll catch an episode of ATWT, or AMC, about once a week. But I never see anything that excites me to watch. It's not just a Y&R thing. Over the summer, the OLTL threads were the same way - Is it Ron? Is the network forcing him to do things? What's going on? People stopped discussing episodes and discussed "regimes". And after a while, that just isn't fun. For me, at least. That's just my opinion. Realistically, we only have these shows for a few more years, and I want to spend my viewing time actually viewing, and not dissecting. I've found it's much more pleasant that way. I was totally on board a year ago with all the talk of behind-the-scenes, believe me. (The WGA stuff, Pratt, Is Ellen Wheeler insane, Higleygate, Hinseygate, etc.) But I think I just got over-saturated with all the drum-beating, and now I don't care anymore. I just want to watch. Or not watch, as the case may be.

[bellcurve]

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Fair enough.

I was very confused by you saying in the episode thread that Y&R is as bad as the worst ABC soap, but you continue to watch. You've repeated for months that when a show gets bad, you stop watching. You've said that Y&R is as bad as the worst ABC soap, so I was curious why you still watch and a bit confused after you said a few months ago when things get bad, you stop watching.

I'm much the opposite way, Y&R is one of my main soaps, and I'll watch no matter how bad it gets, even if its torturous.

[YRBB]

That's the funniest analogy I've ever heard!

[brimike]

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one, Alvin. But I don't think it's nearly as bad as you do. I think the pacing is terrible, and much suspension of disbelief is needed. But I think the initial concepts of the storylines aren't terrible. Just the execution. And once or twice a week, I watch an episode I think is pretty good. And usually, they're written/directed by different people, so I think there are pieces of all the individual writers/directors/actors I appreciate. That doesn't mean I think the show's in good shape. Nor am I optimistic we're going to get anything different from what we've gotten in the future. This is the kind of show they want to write/produce. Doesn't matter how many posts anybody writes, or how many non-Nielsen families quit watching, that's how it is.

If I find a show unwatchable, I stop watching. But I don't find Y&R unwatchable. Just really, really, really frustrating.

But I already know you don't feel this way, so like I said, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Fair enough, but obviously, the show they want to write is out of touch with a lot of the audience, hence the backlash against the show and its writing regime, and the vocal outraged fans. It may be only the internet, but I don't think I've seen Y&R fans online this dissatisfied with the show, at least not on SON. Even the Latham era was largely ignored compared to this.

Oh, I agree, I just wanted to understand where you came from better. I was just a bit confused by what you meant by Y&R being as bad as the worst ABC soap and why you're still watching it.

[brimike]

I found Passions completely unwatchable. But I find even bad ABC soaps somewhat entertaining at times. LOL!

[MarkH]

You're so circumspect and diplomatic. So I don't want to push you on this, but when you say "really, really, really frustrating", is that because of pacing and suspension of belief? Or is there something more specific that frustrates you?

As a psychologist, I'm interested in that word--frustration. It usually means thwarted desire and expectation. It means there is a difference between where it is going and where you want it to go.

I'd be really intrigued, if you could fix it, what you'd do.

(Not just you--the entire board). I don't mean spec scripts and the like. I mean what current specific elements do you think could reduce the frustration.

[brimike]

Those are mostly my personal issues. In the past, we've had discussions in numerous threads about how something like Phillip/Cane, or gaslighting stories, or Summer's Munchausen-by-Proxy, could possibly work in concept. But they're either completely rushed through, or they drag on, spinning their wheels. And it's always the story you want rushed that's dragging, and always the story you're missing important moments in, that's rushed through.

So I get frustrated, because when I want to see something slowed way down, so I can understand every nuance in a storyline (like in the Phillip coming-out story), it's completely brushed over. But then there's a story like the gaslighting, which meandered and kept folding back in on itself. I feel, as a viewer, like banging my head against the wall. But then the performances, or a particularly well-written scene shows up, and I find I'm distracted from my frustrations, even for a moment. When I suddenly find myself not having any of those moments altogether? Then I turn it off. But I still find them, usually when I least expect it.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

What I found most insulting about those stories or "concepts" was how they were all playing out at the same time and each in some way underestimated the intelligence of the audience. On Y&R these days, almost every story requires the audience to suspend a huge deal of disbelief. There's very little we have to relate to anymore, and when we do get it, a core character has to be killed off. Again, why is death always used to propel story on this show?

These character aren't real to me anymore. Their motivations are either severely lacking, or their personalities change to match some story.

The pacing is bad, but so is the strategy on this show. How could anyone not see that having an inane baby switch story after the death of core character, while psychos are running rampant on the show, after someone was shot and needed a heart transplant, as someone is battling cancer, and other downer stories was not a huge error in strategy?

Which brings me back to that baby switch. Look at the way it was executed at first. Really? They expect audience members to be that stupid?

Added to that, look at the way minorities and women have been written on Y&R since this writing regime has taken over. It's frigging appalling. We don;t have one strong frontburner female character on the show anymore. I don;t need to tell you what a disaster the Winter's and "gay" characters have been on this show.

Also, where is the corporate intrigue that made Y&R stand out? Why are more people not interacting at the workplace in places like Newman and Jabot? That used to be a huge part of Y&R's identity, yet now we only really get to see a professional story when it involves Restless Style.

Y&R right now is very different from MAB's solo reign, and from the Latham era. Those eras were as bad, but this is a different kind of bad.

I don't understand your position on Y&R's Head Writer's. Do you still think they deserve all the time in the world to repeat the same mistakes they've been doing since day one? Do these people seriously deserve more time after all they've done on this show? I'm not asking this as something to be translated realistically, but ideally, after all that's happened over the past 6 months or so, do these people still deserve to be Head Writing Y&R? I personally do not think so.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

bellurve mentioned this in another thread, and how true...

[MarkH]

Question for me--who knows nothing about how these shows are put together.

So, let's take an idea like "P3 comes back from the dead and then comes out".

1. Whose idea is a story like that? In this case, it seems to have been MAB's after a meeting with Thom Bierdz. More generally, I'm guessing maybe she might throw out this idea and then the team works with her to flesh out the concept.

2. But now, when we talk about pacing and working out the details (so they don't 'insult our intelligence'). Whose job is that? I mean generally, and also specifically on this show? Is this laying out the job of the co-HWs? Or that raft of AHWs? Or the BDWs?

In other words, WHO'S TO BLAME (most proximally) for these pacing and detail-working-out problems?

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Another post that belongs here...

What was the point in killing off Brad and then his as well as Traci Abbot's daughter a few months later?

What was the point of giving Heather epstein-barr disease (which was completely forgotten anyway)?

What was the point of having Patty cause brain-damage to Summer?

What is the point of this whole Terroni mess?

What was the point of having Devon sleep with Tyra?

What was the point of making Patty into a psycho and then introducing her lookalike? Why did Patty, the core character, have to be a psycho that committed so many crimes?

Likewise with Adam. Why did he have to burn Ashley's fetus? What was the point of him gaslighting Ashley anyway? Did he seriously not know that trying to make Ashley go crazy as she's standing on stairs during a story and blackout would lead to something dangerous? Really?

Why do both Sharon and Phyllis continue to blame each other and not Nick? Why doesn't that quad never end and why does it always go around in circles?

What was the point in bringing Phillip III back from the dead and ruining all that history just to do not followup and have the character one like once a month after that?

Why was the point of giving Katherine a husband if they were hardly ever going to be on together?

There's so much more I can go into, but Y&R sucks, and this writing regime just sucks. We soooo deserve better than this crap.

[MarkH]

I can answer some of these. You won't like the answer!

What was the point in killing off Brad and then his as well a Traci Abbot's daughter a few months later?

Cost reduction of a non-essential branch of the family, since Y&R got a 40% license cut.

What was the point of giving Heather epstein-barr disease (which was completely forgotten anyway)?

Proximally, it was to get Adam and Paul in the hospital at the same time as... (and I have forgotten who else was in the hospital and why it was an important twist). But, yes, this was lame.

What was the point of having Patty cause brain-damage to Summer?

To serve dual purposes. First, to feed Victor the irony of what he had wrought--to show him what he had unleashed on his own family. This was the place where Dr. Frankenstein finally has to confront his monster. Also, that story turned the worm for Patty...it is when they began setting up the climax of 9/17. Second, it created the obstacle that kept Nick and Sharon apart--driving at least another year of story.

What is the point of this whole Terroni mess?

To introduce Deacon to the canvas. Longer term, to set up something with Ryder's mother. That is apparently one of the next big stories. (I'm not defending that)

What was the point of having Devon sleep with Tyra?

To usher Eva off the canvas. The straw that broke the camel's back. Nothing more.

What was the point of making Patty into a psycho and then introducing her lookalike? Why did Patty, the core character, have to be a psycho that committed so many crimes?

Patty as psycho, I suspect, was always planned. It was unfortunate that that ruined a "legacy" character. On the other hand, TPTB obviously grew to love Haiduk. Hence the doppelganger.

Likewise with Adam. Why did he have to burn Ashley's fetus? What was the point of him gaslighting Ashley anyway? Did he serious not know that trying to make Ashley go crazy as she's standing on stairs during a story and blackout would lead to something dangerous? Really?

I can't answer this one. It was a reckless act that doesn't fit with the otherwise meticulous Adam. Mystery to me.

Why do both Sharon and Phyllis continue to blame each other and not Nick? Why doesn't that quad never end and why does it always go around in circles?

Well the quad became a triangle, and now it's not even a triangle. Once gets the sense that they're going in a different direction for now. But, to ask this question is to ask why Nikki-Victor-Ashley is a 25-year triangle. It is to ask why triangles are the preferred shape on daytime. This is a repetitive story, but I find nothing unusually egregious here.

What was the point in bringing Phillip III back from the dead and ruining all that history just to do not followup and have the character one like once a month after that?

To quote Jeanne Cooper, it was "unnecessary". That was literally done for a big cliffhanger. And the rest was a bust. Awful awful awful.

Why was the point of giving Katherine a husband if they were hardly ever going to be on together?

I think Murphy was planned to be short-arc. But then he charmed all of us, and TPTB (like Haiduk...notice a pattern?). I honestly didn't expect more. That said, I'd love it if Murphy had a tortured backstory (like an estranged daughter), and Kay helped to reunite them. For now, I'd say the answer is "because he's fun to watch". That works for me.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

It's pretty obvious that the HW's shape the tone of the pacing. Alden and Smith had their own pacing, Latham had her own pacing, MAB's solo reign had its own pacing, and now Maria/Sheffer/Hamner have their own style of pacing...

I don't think it's any coincidence that many have noticed patterns and inane plots that Hogan Sheffer recycles from show to show, MAB's obvious hard-on for art, and the inane mysteries and psychos of Scott Hamner.

Maria and Rauch are too boastful about CBS not interfering with them, and since many of these writers have had the same vision and recycled the same plots on past shows, they have a huge blame in why Y&R is the way it is right now. If it all came from network mandates, then why were Alden/Smith, Latham, and MAB's solo run so different from what we have now? Barbra Bloom was still at CBS during all these era, Steve Kent was still at Sony too. Hmmm.