Now that suddenly Cane and Jill are not related, maybe the brilliant pen will write in a mutual sexual attraction (or at least an obsession of Jill's) between them, because you just know Bradley gave Maria a few pointers for a good incest-like story.

Now that suddenly Cane and Jill are not related, maybe the brilliant pen will write in a mutual sexual attraction (or at least an obsession of Jill's) between them, because you just know Bradley gave Maria a few pointers for a good incest-like story.

You know, if LML didn't come up with this crap of Cane being the real Phillip in the first place, Cane and Jill could have been a hot pairing of the hot nobody and the established gold digging social climber who becomes naive enough to put her boy toy ahead of her own son. And then Cane screws her over.

Actually, none of what's going on makes any sense.

Exactly!

Katherine, Jill, Mackenzie & Chloe should HATE Cane but all 4 are acting like he's God while TPTB make Nina & Billy look bad for hating poor wittle Ostrich Boy.

Jill is so completely broken now that I think she just clings to the one uncomplicated relationship she had.

Jill isn't broken.

TPTB's writing for Jill is broken & there's nothing in Jess performances that's suggested that she's so broken that all she feels she has is Cane.

Cane has always been there for her since they met

Cane has validated her since they met & that's ALL Cane would ever do.

He had nothing to lose & everything to gain.

and I feel like, if she did see him as deceiving her, she would lose the last link to anything keeping her going.

Jill wants to keep Cane cause she doesn't want to deal with the fact that while her kids DO love her they DON'T appreciate her treating them like drones.

I think she knows Katherine, Billy, and Phillip are never going to accept her because it's easier for them to see the worst of her, due to their history.

Not true at all.

All 3 often believe the worst in Jill but more often than not they have given her the benefit of the doubt.

Where Jill runs into problems especially with Phillip & Billy is when she decides it's her place to run THEIR lives.

She's lost her job and her money. She's lost her identity. She has nothing.

The only thing Jill lost is her money.

Even if Katherine isn't her Mother Katherine still WANTED to be & before Phillip came back she still had Liz, Greg, Snapper, Billy, Chance, Delia & Chloe.

but I can understand where she's coming from.

I can't cause it's all bullshi.t to prop Cane.

I've really enjoyed this conversation, I feel like there's more thought about Jill here than in the writing. I can see what you're all saying about what she would do with regards to Cane.

I do believe Jill COULD love & WOULD love Cane.

But favoring him over her real children & grandchildren, forgiving him so quickly & making him an equal heir?

No way.

Edited July 30, 200916 yr by DeeeDee

It's weird how a few of us see Cane for who he is, but apparently the rest of Y&R fans love him! dore him! It's crap.

Jill isn't broken.

TPTB's writing for Jill is broken & there's nothing in Jess performances that's suggested that she's so broken that all she feels she has is Cane.

I guess I thought the point of the stories about Jill being unrelated from Katherine, losing the job and money, filing nails, etc. was to tell us she is now lost. I don't get that from Jess' performance and the writing for Jill isn't strong enough that they follow up on what she's feeling, but I thought that was what they were trying to put across. I can never tell with these writers, I just have to sum up something.

There's so much venom in this thread, and I just don't want to add to it. I know you don't believe in this philosophy (and that's cool), but if I hate a show that much, I just stop watching it. I've done it with every other daytime soap (except OLTL and B&B now that Hearst is back), and when I've finally had enough, I'll walk away from Y&R too.

I come here to have discussions, not come up with nasty nicknames for writers I think are hacks, and bully other post-ers (Not that you do either, just throwing out examples). I want to talk about the things I like about the show, and the things I think need improvement. There are some things I like about the show. I won't be embarrassed by that, and made to feel like I'm some low-class moron for that. I think watching Stacy Haiduk work is mesmerizing. I've hated Cane Ashby for three years, and somehow my opinion of him is changing. I think Lily's story is heartbreaking, and now that we seem to be in the final act of Patty/MJ, I'm enjoying watching the walls close in and Jack start to figure it out. I've always been a Bergman fan, so watching him and Davidson team up is great fun for me.

That being said, I don't really care about Gloria and Jeff and don't know why they're on the show. Deacon and Amber is completely wrong on every level, and a waste of their chemistry. Phillip should have been a year-long story, told MUCH differently (with some serious training for Thom about six months before he came back to the studio), and this Chance story is non-existent. Nick is made to look like a ping-ponging fool, and I want Ashley to get a backbone - even if it means Adam has to try and crush it again, at least show me she's TRYING to pull her sh!t together. So I can root for her. I understand she needs to be a little bit of a victim for this arc of the story, but DAMN, there is a way to make her a victim plot-wise while not making her a complete airhead character-wise. A little cat and mouse with Adam and Ashley would be GREAT here. And we never got the proper motivation for Sharon's lie.

It could be a lot better. If I was in control, I would do things much differently (but probably be equally as reviled by somebody). But I'm not. This is a TV show. One I greatly respect and enjoy, and one I can usually find something to like as much as I roll my eyes and think "Oh come on - you people can do so much better!". But I don't feel the need to fill up pages and pages and pages, like the more I hate on it, the better chance I'll have of getting what I want. Unless I'm in an in-depth discussion with you or Mark or Carl or caramia or any of the other "regulars" around here, I usually try (and sometimes fail) to just post a couple things about that day's show and just move on. You'll know I hate this show when I just stop posting in this thread. Because I just don't see the point of watching it if it makes me that angry.

I will only add that sometimes the constant venom in this thread is a huge deterrent for me. I don't mind discussion and debate but I've been around too many boards when the shows are bad and I hate when posters turn into lynch mobs.

Having said that, I will weigh in on the character of Chance. His introduction left much to be desired but I'm actually open to seeing where they take him from him.

I guess I thought the point of the stories about Jill being unrelated from Katherine, losing the job and money, filing nails, etc. was to tell us she is now lost.

I can believe Jill is lost what I can't believe that Jill is so lost the only thing she feels she has is Cane.

I don't get that from Jess' performance and the writing for Jill isn't strong enough that they follow up on what she's feeling

TPTB always do that when they want to prop characters.

It's the same reason Victoria is the way she is with Phyllis or Lauren is with Gloria.

I will weigh in on the character of Chance. His introduction left much to be desired but I'm actually open to seeing where they take him from him.

Driscoll is LOVE.

I completely agree with brimike's description. It is just that lately it has been much harder to watch some stuff. There are positive things about the show (it is not completely as bad as LML). I just hope they can get back to what they were doing a year ago. I want balance (a word in the dictionary that they don't know how to use).

Chance has promise. His entrance might not have been good, but I'm looking forward to anything that he'll be involved with just because it'll probably be with Chloe.

I must admit that sometimes it's hard to read the venom on the thread (and that's why I haven't always been around here) because I want to enjoy the positive stuff and not have it all completely clouded by what a few people think.

Edited July 30, 200916 yr by dmarex

I think it's going to be very hard to get back on track. I've said this a million times, how many times have we said on daytime "give it time" and these hacks killing these shows only get worse. We should have knows when they started their tenure with a double murder and Nikki degrading herself in Mexico with Victor, that this was going to be the problematic direction they would be taking this show in. The Kay/Marge storyline showed some hope and slowed some of this down, but by the end, it was a disaster and all these bad elements just grew worse. My biggest problem with this regime is that they don't learn from their mistakes (or else Sheffer wouldn't have recycled a controversial rape plot and Tyra wouldn't still be here) and these same mistakes only get worse in the long-run.

This show is both bad and frustrating for me to watch, and if I quit it, I'll be done with consistent viewing of daytime for good

TPTB always do that when they want to prop characters.

It's the same reason Victoria is the way she is with Phyllis or Lauren is with Gloria.

Pretty much.

I think it's going to be very hard to get back on track. I've said this a million times, how many times have we said on daytime "give it time" and these hacks killing these shows only get worse. We should have knows when they started their tenure with a double murder and Nikki degrading herself in Mexico with Victor, that this was going to be the problematic direction they would be taking this show in. The Kay/Marge storyline showed some hope and slowed some of this down, but by the end, it was a disaster and all these bad elements just grew worse. My biggest problem with this regime is that they don't learn from their mistakes (or else Sheffer wouldn't have recycled a controversial rape plot and Tyra wouldn't still be here) and these same mistakes only get worse in the long-run.

This show is both bad and frustrating for me to watch, and if I quit it, I'll be done with consistent viewing of daytime for good

First of all: Thank God they started their tenure with the double murder because I personally couldn't stand one more minute of Sabrina or David. It was the time when things started getting better. As for Nikki, she was amazing during those months, but I do agree that she shouldn't have been degraded like that way. Anyway, it's probably written in Eric Braeden's "list of demands" that he always has to have the upper hand or something, so it's no surprising.

The show if FAR from being good, and the last few months have been one bad thing after another, so it's hard to stay positive. There are things MAB could do if only she would know how.

TPTB always do that when they want to prop characters.

It's the same reason Victoria is the way she is with Phyllis or Lauren is with Gloria.

The question is why? Why would they do that if they know WE ALL hate propping and that it never helps? It pretty much says that all networks and all producers consider the audience to be dumb enough or just not care about it.

Sabrina and David being murdered didn't bother me (although I hated seeing her die and die in the hospital and turned into this martyr, I would have much rather seen her live and actually go through a real, complicated relationship with Victor), but the Nikki degrading, the Victor propping, the Victor moping (which was then magically cured by sex with Ashley), the endless scenes of Nick and Victoria feeling shame for doubting Victor's awesomeness, telling everyone how good he was, Adam being turned into a one-dimensional sniveling brat to prop Victor...so much of the story alienated me and I think the success this had at the time just led them to cater to their worst indulgences later on.

First of all: Thank God they started their tenure with the double murder because I personally couldn't stand one more minute of Sabrina or David. It was the time when things started getting better. As for Nikki, she was amazing during those months, but I do agree that she shouldn't have been degraded like that way. Anyway, it's probably written in Eric Braeden's "list of demands" that he always has to have the upper hand or something, so it's no surprising.

I don't disagree that it helped the show at the time, but this regime obviously got caught up in that "shock" and "awe", misogynistic, plot-driven, and over the top storytelling, and a year later, it's exactly that type of tone and storytelling that's hurting the show. You can do it, but you have to know how to balance it out and when to do it. The thing is, they've been doing too much of that type of storytelling for a few months now, and it looks like it's only getting worse over the next few weeks.

The show if FAR from being good, and the last few months have been one bad thing after another, so it's hard to stay positive. There are things MAB could do if only she would know how.

Exactly, and with her inexperience and polarizing Co-HW's, the hope can't stay alive, at least, not with me.

Daytime is ending, no one wants to save it anymore. I guess we might as well accept that. But I really want to believe better writers and producers will come in and save this show.

Edited July 30, 200916 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

The question is why? Why would they do that if they know WE ALL hate propping and that it never helps?

To appease fanbases.