Y&R: Shocking Role Recast

[rhinohide]

Not necessarily. Reverse the situation. What if it was a gay story that was offensive to the gay community? I think if Mark Dobies had refused to play Daniel Colson as a gay serial killer because it reinforced negative stereotypes that there would be some people who would applaud him for taking a stand. He'd still be in breach of his contract, but if people shared his values, there's a good chance they'd admire him for it.

[MarkH]

So, I think this is a good comment. But remember that the stuff in bold is rumor. We actually do not know that this is the case. Even if he objected to Adam kissing Rafe, it may have had more to do with the story than the sexuality aspect. What this thread has really clarified, for me, is how little we actually know about what went down.

[MarkH]

In fact, I think this Adam twist has some real similarities to Dobies...a very dark and (unflattering) portrait of an aspect of gay male sexuality.

For all we know, Engen's stance was a principled stance against the depiction of sexuality. Maybe he'd have happily kissed Gellman if, in his view, the story was right.

I am not defending Engen. If he in fact walked out (i.e., was not fired) then his professionalism is still in question. But I've just become really aware, through this discussion, of how little we objectively know.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Yep.......

[Taiah]

True, all we got is what Nelson posted up...setside sources, supposed costar quotes, etc. I think there's more to this but for now its just a juicy scandalous story spreading like wildfire. But if CE bolted though regardless of reason, that was indeed effing stupid. Just slob Yani G. down until you can leave the role appropriately.

[MarkH]

LMAO

Seriously, can't stop laughing!

[Vee]

I'd applaud Dobies' principles, but I'd still understand why he would be blacklisted in the industry for breaking contract. You don't do that. Just like Roscoe Born - he may have had a point, but it was foolish and cost him work.

Likewise, people should be able to understand why Engen can expect his career to suffer for unprofessional behavior.

[rhinohide]

Yes, but I wasn't responding to the stance other prospective employers might take.

If this was any other twist, we'd decry the actor's lack of professionalism.

I bolded this part of your previous post, so my remarks were limited to the reaction on this board. The outrage I see from many people is resulting from their disagreement with the values he is purported to hold that led to his action. Again I haven't read the entire thread, but I was certainly not arguing that his career would NOT nor even should not suffer as a result of his action.

Consider that Roger Howarth and Susan Haskell reportedly threatened to walk, and presumably would have walked if tptb had written a romantic story for Todd and Marty subsequent to the gang rape story. Many people referenced their refusal to play that story as a courageous and principled decision, but the only differences I see between Haskell's/Howarth's refusal and CE's is that many people shared their value judgement about that story and tptb backed down so they weren't forced to follow through.

[Vee]

And why shouldn't I share their value judgment? One would've walked over a rape-romance. The other walked over having to kiss a dude. Not the same thing. For Engen, it appears bigotry was more important than being a working actor.

[rhinohide]

You're entitled to whatever value judgement you choose (as is Engen). I'm just pointing out that one is not more professional than the other just because we agree or disagree with the value judgement, IMHO.

[MarkH]

Just a reminder.

At present, the news that HE walked (rather than was terminated) is UNCONFIRMED.

The news about the REASON he walked, if he walked, is UNCONFIRMED.

If he walked, and for the reasons alleged, I'd also feel it would be at least indicative of a lack of professionalism (and a lack of good judgement). But now we really need some independent confirmation (which we may never get). SteveFrame has really alerted me to the fact that a man's career may have been damaged here on the basis of innuendo.

Assuming Canadian TV Guide got the true story, and was not just fed something the show wanted him to put out there as truth, then I think harsher judgments may be warranted.

[Marc]

He's a "bigot" because he didn't wanna kiss another man. LOL come on now...

[Taiah]

Word! NB's story got ate up like candy but I need to hear from someone else.

[SteveFrame]

Thank you for the very adult and level head response to this Mark.

If Branco/TV Guide got the story right I will have no problem with the judgements made. I just don't want to be party to it with no more confirmation than we have.

Also as I have said there are just way too many other scenarios than just that he is a bigot as to why he couldn't or wouldn't kiss a man. Some of them are not as easy to see as the most obvious but lets face it they are possibilities.

And if he is a closeted homosexual still trying to come to terms with his sexuality the whole scandal can do more damage to him than he will ever get over.

And let's keep in mind that what some of these guys and gals act on the screen does affect them personally.

Remember Frank Beaty anyone. He was on Guiding Light a few years back, playing Brent/Marian, a psycho who was dressing as a woman I think it was to commit his crimes. It was reported the man had a break down and had to take a few weeks or months off toward the climax of the story. He came back shortly after, but it happens folks. If an actor takes his job seriously often the role gets inside them.

There is just too much unknown. He has been accused of having religious principles and frankly the man could be an atheist. We don't even know that. But yet it is widely reported on so many so boards right now that the man is a religious homophobe who walked out because he refused to kiss a man because of his religious principles against homosexualty.

That is the story that is out there now because everyone has said what they heard and everyone has taken and interprested it the way they want it. And some people aren't even looking to see where the sources are. They actually believe that some of the people have such inside information that they know the truth. After some in here are saying they have the facts.

I am just saddened moreso by the credibility and respect that many of these boards have built up has been thrown away by letting this inuendo run rampant and the judging be done. And that is what it is folks - it is a judgment passed on an individual. He has been judged a bigot and we don't have the proof that he is one. And who says that only the religious right are guilty of judging. This thread proves that not only the religious right can be both intoerant and judgmental. Because let me tell you the claws have come out and the judging has been done.

And boards all over the Internet have allowed it to happen.

I asked the question to someone yesterday and I will put it here on the board. I may get banned for it. If I do so be it.

But what is the difference in this therad and the yearly gossip thread that gets closed. We are not allowed to gossip on a regular basis on the board, but yet this whole thread is gossip and inuendo and it has gone on for about 30 pages. I just don't see why this can happen and a gossip thread can't.

Also we are all the time called out about actor bashing. But yet here it has happened very much in this thread. If calling an actor a homophobe is not bashing, I don't know what is.

Anyway that is just my opinion on it.

[marceline]

Oh Mark, you can keep saying that until hell freezes over but it's too late. Too many people have grabbed their rope and pitchforks and they won't be happy until Engen is buried in a nameless, shallow grave.