Yet Y&R's team has gargantuan proportions.

Mike, honey, have you said anything about Melody? Like, dislike, care, don't care?

I also wanted to address the allegedly "misogynistic" origins of Victor/Nikki. That's true, of course...but as the years have gone on, the tale has been singular in defying the feministic progression in daytime. Until Brad showed her her first laptop (when she invested in Jabot to defy Victor), it was remarkable to see a tale like this still...a trophy wife in a gilded cage.

Someone else has already referenced the Pygmalion/My Fair Lady origins of this romance. Victor even referenced Galatea when he first asked Nikki to move into the ranch. Those are classical -- yea, mythic -- origins. And people dismiss the tale??

Ironically, Nikki never really came into her own until LML. I hated what LML did to Nikki, mostly. (It made no sense that Nikki would suddenly work against Victor, and run for Senate, and have her daughter-in-law arrested on her wedding day). But a lasting legacy -- a good one -- is that Nikki no longer put up with Victor's sh!t. At the same time, she was still simpering and clingy (David Chow!), and has in some measure remained thus (Paul!). I like that the dependent, insecure throughline of Nikki remains. She's being shown, warts and all. Indeed, Victor even called her on it ("You'll lose all sense with anyone who is remotely nice to you").

Indeed, I feel that is why Victor is really being so vile to Nikki. It is for her! He knows they are poison for one another...so his angry, brusque nature is really designed to keep them apart. All of this follows logically from his harangue on the beach in Mexico.

It is precisely because there is no one else quite like Nikki on the daytime landscape, and it precisely because she has been a front-burner female with deep, deep flaws--now being allowed to age and become something different, but still consistent with her past -- that I would hate to lose MTS and Nikki.

Oh yeah, for those who dismiss the Victor/Nikki tale. Remember how much box office Pretty Woman did? Remember how it made Julia Roberts a star? (Hmmmm...there's that name again). The AUDIENCE loves this Cinderalla/fractured Cinderella tales. So, of course, some critics would deny such fairy tales to the audience. That sure makes sense....

Edited May 12, 200916 yr by MarkH

To answer the previous question - everybody behind the scenes (writers/directors/people in production jobs), they're all taking pay cuts. Some are even being laid off. At all the shows. The strike doesn't affect that.

I wonder if it was 40% or more. No one ever mentions the people behind the scenes. It's frustrating.

I said it in the Suds thread in the spoiler section, Sylph. I think it's Melody's call. If she feels she was wronged, and wants to start a new chapter in her life that doesn't involve Y&R, I have to respect that. And if she chooses to take the pay cut, I respect that too.

I don't want her to leave, but I don't think the show will fall apart if she does.

Not fall apart...just lose another bit of its brightness and of its history....

These things chip away at a show. They are not catastrophic...but like rot...they destroy nonetheless.

I said it in the Suds thread in the spoiler section, Sylph. I think it's Melody's call. If she feels she was wronged, and wants to start a new chapter in her life that doesn't involve Y&R, I have to respect that. And if she chooses to take the pay cut, I respect that too.

Oh, sorry, I didn't read that!

I don't want her to leave, but I don't think the show will fall apart if she does.

Which is kind of brimikean way of saying: She can go. No loss there.

Not fall apart...just lose another bit of its brightness and of its history....

These things chip away at a show. They are not catastrophic...but like rot...they destroy nonetheless.

I totally agree, MarkH. I hope it didn't come across like I was a callous. I do NOT want to lose MTS, especially with where the story looks like it's heading. But the show has to go on. And honestly, after what happened with Days last year, I fully prepared myself for 2009 to be the year that a lot of these actors either take the hit, or ride off into the sunset. I psyched myself up for it, so when I hear it about anybody, be it David Canary, MTS, Erika Slezak, Susan Flannery, whomever - it won't seem like such a blow.

So I guess I just psyched myself up for it last year, so I wouldn't be so horrified when it started happening across the board. This is the world we live in now. It sucks, but it's happening. I went through my five stages of grief in 2008. 2009 is all about acceptance. LOL!

Edited May 12, 200916 yr by brimike

Oh, sorry, I didn't read that!

Which is kind of brimikean way of saying: She can go. No loss there.

My babbling in the other thread:

I hesitate to even bring this up, because people will accuse me of being "anti-actor", which is SO not the case. As far as I'm concerned any vet leaving Y&R right now would be terrible, and a huge blow to the show. And I don't want it to be anybody on Y&R that Nelson is talking about here.

But a lot of these vets got huuuuuuuuuge raises in the late 80's/early 90's, with the assumption back then that soaps ratings would continue to be good. Sure ratings were in a slight decline, but I don't think anybody predicted the steep and sharp plummet that would happen in the 90's.

Let's say you work at a job for twenty years, and every few years, you get a 5%-10% raise. Sounds good - except a lot of these actors knew the shows counted on them to bring in viewers, so when soaps were popular, they re-negotiated back then to get 20%-25% raises. And the shows gave in. It was foolish and short-sighted, because eventually, other actors would catch on if a couple of them got these huge raises, and suddenly actor budgets became incredibly bloated.

Then the mid-90's happened, and the raises went back to 5%-10% - but the damage was already done. (I know Kristian Alfonso, Deidre Hall, Peter Reckell, etc. all got incredibly large raises to return to Days. Raises the show couldn't possibly continue to pay from year to year.

Now with ratings in a downward spiral, advertising revenue down, and licensing fees being slashed everywhere, all actors are going to have to take some cuts. In reality, it's probably decreases in guarantees/salary/contracts that would put them back to what they should be, were it not for those gigantic raises fifteen/twenty years ago. There's no avoiding it. It's not about disrespect, nor is it about age-ism. It's about trying to survive.

I don't want to see any long-time actor leave any of these shows, but people either need to accept the cuts and just be glad they still have a job, or they can choose to leave and begin a new chapter in their lives. It's a personal decision, that unfortunately, we fans have nothing to do with.

If you work at a job, and your boss tells you that you have to take a substantial cut to continue having any kind of employment, you have two choices. Accept it, continue working, and change your lifestyle... or if you have enough money "in the bank", choose to leave and spend time with your family and try something new with your life. I know I'm in the minority by saying this, but I really don't think it's about age-ism or disrespect. I think every actor on every daytime show has a decision to make, and they should make that decision for themselves and nobody else. And whatever that decision is, I choose to respect it, even if it hurts the show. Because at the end of the day, they have to do what's good for them and nobody else.

But in a time when companies are going bankrupt everywhere, people are getting laid off by the thousands in all industries, and everyone's looking over their shoulders, I have a hard time labeling anybody as the villain here. It sucks and it's terrible and I don't like it - but I can't fault anybody for choosing to leave or for accepting a pay cut/guarantee cut/recurring deal.

Well if they're gonna get rid of the vets, would TPTB do us all a favor and, uh, I don't know, hire newbies that can act??

Well if they're gonna get rid of the vets, would TPTB do us all a favor and, uh, I don't know, hire newbies that can act??

Actually, Y&R is doing okay in that department. Billy Miller, Elizabeth Hendrickson and John Driscoll are all good.

Clementine Ford and Eva Marcille are still problems, true. But they have given us a few newbies that I'm happy about.

Well if they're gonna get rid of the vets, would TPTB do us all a favor and, uh, I don't know, hire newbies that can act??

It is a good thing that almost every newbie on Y&R in the past year, at least, acts beautifully. And even some folks added during the LML era are doing just fine!

Actually, Y&R is doing okay in that department. Billy Miller, Elizabeth Hendrickson and John Driscoll are all good.

Clementine Ford and Eva Marcille are still problems, true. But they have given us a few newbies that I'm happy about.

I think Ford is playing a particular note ("fortress around my heart"). When she finally lets that go (but it has to be appropriate in story...now is not the time), we're gonna love her!

I think Ford is playing a particular note ("fortress around my heart"). When she finally lets that go (but it has to be appropriate in story...now is not the time), we're gonna love her!

I don't disagree, MarkH. I think CF is doing much better than others on here. I was talking more about general opinion on the boards than my own personal opinion.

Actually, Y&R is doing okay in that department. Billy Miller, Elizabeth Hendrickson and John Driscoll are all good.

Clementine Ford and Eva Marcille are still problems, true. But they have given us a few newbies that I'm happy about.

I'm not even only talking about Y&R.

Farah Fath, Crystal Hunt??

And I haven't seen B&B in ages but I remember Nelson's list of the worst actors on soaps now had just about the entire younger cast on that soap.

And even the young vets: Fumero, Lavoisier, Archer, Williamson, ick Brotherton(?!?)

And Y&R has who? Morrow, Heinle, Stafford, Case, Engen(hopefully), Goddard, Bloom, Khalil??!?!?!?!

It's as if TPTB knew earlier in this decade that soaps would die out and there would be no need to establish new strong actors and/or characters.

I mean, can anyone hear imagine Morrow (even though I love him to pieces) and, let's say, Miller in a head-to-head corporate intrigue story in twenty years?

Edited May 12, 200916 yr by rhythmchyc

I'm not even only talking about Y&R.

Farah Fath, Crystal Hunt??

And I haven't seen B&B in ages but I remember Nelson's list of the worst actors on soaps now had just about the entire younger cast on that soap.

And even the young vets: Fumero, Lavoisier, Archer, Williamson, ick Brotherton(?!?)

And Y&R has who? Morrow, Heinle, Stafford, Case, Engen(hopefully), Goddard, Bloom, Khalil??!?!?!?!

It's as if TPTB knew earlier in this decade that soaps would die out and there would be no need to establish new strong actors and/or characters.

I mean, can anyone hear imagine Morrow (even though I love him to pieces) and, let's say, Miller in a head-to-head corporate intrigue story in twenty years?

Morrow is playing the spoiled son of the Newmans.

I could imagine Goddard and Miller in a pitched corporate battle in 20 years.

Pay cuts make sense when EVERYBODY takes them. That is the sense of esprit de corps, where "we all do our bit for the team". I get that. But when you have MTS' KEY SCENE PARTNER for 25 years allegedly not playing that game...that is just not fair.

I ask all of you...do YOU want to take pay cuts? I work in a place where this is being roundly discussed. I would be supportive, if EVERYONE takes one. Also, even then, if you're still working JUST AS HARD, you can't tell me it doesn't grate.

EVERYBODY does need a paycut. People should be paid what they are worth IN THE CURRENT MARKET they are in. Soaps of today are not soaps of the 80's, 90's or even 5 years ago. When soaps blew up and the budgets blew up so did the salerys of top stars. Soaps have died down, budgets have been slashed yearly, contracts have not -- until now. Those stars who make the most money, im sorry, but are over payed for the current soap opera market.

As for EB, we have NO idea if ehs beena sked to take a cut and if he did. Perhaps the press only cares about those who dont. If it hasnt come up yet, im sure it will.

Would i take a cut? In my current job, no, because i could make more on unemployment, lol. If iw as amking a [!@#$%^&*] load of money? perhaps. Its hard to say without being in the situation just like its hard to say about the companies asking its employes to take cuts because we are not in that exact situation. Placing myself in MTS' shoes? (from what i know)... If i felt it was worth it, yes. If i didnt? No. But i would without a doubt factor in soap vets like Lucci taking massive cuts, the fact that the show was ready to recast Jill, and the fact that people like D. Hall have been fired into account, without a doubt.

Lucci is a legend, undoubtedly, but she wasn't on AMC as much as Scott was preceding her pay cut. While Melody did have a rough 2009, she's had plently of screentime for years. I haven't seen nearly as much effort spent on Lucci and Walton on Y&R until very recently

What was Lucci's big story over the last few years? The prison break story? And that wasn't even a big deal. And Walton would appear twice a month until her s/l with Cooper.

While I'm not saying Scott shouldn't take the cut, I do think considering her last few years on the soap, she has a right to fight.

Sorry if this has already been posted, but this clip has a few early, classic Nikki scenes. MTS was such a strong presence even in those early cult, Paul days.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtDUrKIfoFs