I would love this. Just when the audience starts rooting for him, his on screen redemption is snatched away. Whatever happens, I need the show to find away to keep him around.

I hate to say it, but I do think we are headed in that direction. Gloria is out of options otherwise. As much as I like the Baldwins, making them Shepherd's would disappoint me.

You just made me remember something. Didn't JC once say Moore is Kay's maiden name? Shepherd is the name of her first marriage, right?

Edited May 14, 200916 yr by Cashton

Shepherd is the name of her first marriage, right?

Nope.

Reynolds.

Nope.

Reynolds.

Oh - I guess JCwas drinking some of her juice during the interview.

Heather still loves Adam. Why? Have they shown us why she loves him? This may sound shallow, but who would waste their time on a felon with no money, propsects or even a way to help themselves. Adam's hot but not that hot.

Who knows? Maybe wer'e supposed to believe he has 10 inch penis or soemthing?

They haven't shown us why she loves him, and they never will. They just.don't.do.romance.

Who knows? Maybe wer'e supposed to believe he has 10 inch penis or soemthing?

That's as good a theory as any i've heard.

Who knows? Maybe wer'e supposed to believe he has 10 inch penis or soemthing?

Then, they should tell us so! I welcome the fantasy!

Heather could say something to the effect:

Heather: You're just jealous, Victor, because you KNOW Adam's got a HUGE penis!

Victor: MmmGetouttamyhousemmmmm

Edited May 14, 200916 yr by YRBB

A whole lotta crap, and few good things. That was kinda my point. Malcolm's "death," Neil's alcoholism, Dru and CrapLily arriving, Nikki/Victor marrying, Lorie returning, Raul/Brittany, Mac's Stalker, Amanda/Larry, etc etc.

So basically it is your irrational bias that's causing you to call about 6 or more years crap just because of one character's presence? And, yet, LML wasn't that bad? MAB is better than Alden?

Pretty much . But seriously, I mean look at the things you list above. Ungodly horrible stuff.

When Nikki "died", and Victor divorced Diane to marry her and bring her to life...early Alden...I thought the show was sublime. The whole Victor-Diane divorce was amazing. But somewhere along the line...I even liked the sperm-thievery...the show lost something for me. I even stopped watching every day.

Until LML. In early 2005...really through about September/October of that year (up until Pheila), the show became "must see" for me.

Then, under MAB, I cannot lie...I have very much enjoyed the show since 8/6/08 through the present. Is it plot driven? Probably. But that really doesn't bother me much for a soap...especially since most of the characters are still in character.

Look who's talking

LMAO

But he's not completely blind and it seems to me that after living with a blind woman for 18 years he should have learned some of the tricks of the trade.

Exactly! This has been one negative surprise from this storyline for me. Adam would have amazing coping skills, and he should be referencing all of Hope's "tricks of the trade". Failing to reference his history with Hope -- even if he is just pretending -- is a real weakness in this story.

See the spoiler forum for another WTF spoiler, this one involving Raul's return.

I can't defend anything this show does anymore, and this spoiler is more proof of plot-driven crap that makes almost no sense, and I really have no emotional investment in it.

And "plot-driven" is evil, right? Even if it meshes with character and history too?

Well, that settles it! Without a(nother) rich man to marry support her, Glo's as good as screwed.

I sincerely hope this could lead to the re-invention of Gloria.

They started this for a time when she started at Jabot, and actually came up with a good idea ("Perfume on the Glo"). I would like to see her get by on her wits and creative ideas for a time. She may be reckless, but she is not stupid.

Jill + Jeffrey + Gloria = genius. Im actually not minding Gloria here and love the comedic tension the 3 of them together brings. Once again they got screwed over by Victor. Fallout of that should be good

I really wish Adam would stop especially since Ashley genuinely does seem to care about him

Im glad that Victor isnt treating Nikki like the piece of dirt on the bottom of his shoe anymore

I agree with everything above.

Did you see Victor's hang-dog look and gulp after Nikki left? For all the sh!t Braeden takes for being mannered and habitual, he still does non-verbals better than many in the business.

To Adam, though, she's just a means to an end. His target is Victor. If Ashley or the baby are caught in the crossfire? Well, it be like that sometimes.

What you describe, though, is textbook psychopath. No empathy. No conscience. I didn't want that for Adam....

You know - it's about time for a new power source to be established on this show. NE, CI/Jabot (they're one in the same really) being controlled by VN and KC limits the possibilites for corporate intrigue. Fenmore's is supposed to be a big deal too, right? Isn't it supposed to be a major department store like Macy's (although that seems out the door since Lauren works in the dang store). They should give Lauren a corporate office and get into that mix. i know I'm in the minority here, but seeing the Baldwins try to shake up the business world would be fun.

I'm also hoping Neil will make some waves for the Abbotts. Where's the scene of Neil laying down the law to Jack? That'd be cool to see too. There's a new sherriff in town and I want Neil to seize it.

I love your Fenmore-Baldwin idea.

Sadly, on this show, I can't imagine they'll ever truly shake up the power hierarchy. Not while Braeden is around. And not after the epilepsy story.

My latte just kicked in and made me wonder if Gloria and Jill team up to make Katherine believe Gloria is really her daughter - but she's NOT.

That is an interesting twist! There is a future for you in this business.....

Then, they should tell us so! I welcome the fantasy!

Heather could say something to the effect:

Heather: You're just jealous, Victor, because you KNOW Adam's got a HUGE penis!

Victor: MmmGetouttamyhousemmmmm

you know, they DID go there once... back in 02, I remember a scene where Lorie called her Ex Max..... "Big Max" or soemthing to that effect. It was subtle, but I wouldv'e LOVED to seen the look on Bauer's face when she got that script!

Who knows? Maybe wer'e supposed to believe he has 10 inch penis or soemthing?

It's not the meat, it's the motion.

They haven't shown us why she loves him, and they never will. They just.don't.do.romance.

But when they doooo do romance (Victor & Sabrina, Cane & Lily) people get all "gag gag gag". They cannot win.

you know, they DID go there once... back in 02, I remember a scene where Lorie called her Ex Max..... "Big Max" or soemthing to that effect. It was subtle, but I wouldv'e LOVED to seen the look on Bauer's face when she got that script!

your theory gives new meaning to the desperate woman trying to HOLD ON to her man. LOL!

And "plot-driven" is evil, right? Even if it meshes with character and history too?

Every show needs plot, but not plot for plot sake. Especially since they haven't given us any indication that Mac was ever in love while she was away or that she's been happy in recent years. If they spring this on us a few days before Raul's "surprise" visit, it will look like an even bigger convoluted joke.

And this show severely lacks any romance. They're not using Raul and Mac was a point of romantic emphasis, they're using it as a plot point against Billy's lust for Mac.

Edited May 14, 200916 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

But seriously, I mean look at the things you list above. Ungodly horrible stuff.

And, yet, much much better than what we're getting now!

When Nikki "died", and Victor divorced Diane to marry her and bring her to life...early Alden...I thought the show was sublime. The whole Victor-Diane divorce was amazing. But somewhere along the line...I even liked the sperm-thievery...the show lost something for me. I even stopped watching every day.

The show was in top form up until 2001.... Alden had her faults, certainly, but it was good soap, with subtext, great storylines, and most importantly: EMOTION.

Then, under MAB, I cannot lie...I have very much enjoyed the show since 8/6/08 through the present. Is it plot driven? Probably. But that really doesn't bother me much for a soap...especially since most of the characters are still in character.

No, nothing wrong with plot-driven. You see, MELROSE PLACE was plot driven, too. But that is not what Y&R is about and, even if that changes, then the goodness will soon end. Plot-driven shows cannot be sustained for long, without crumbling. And plot-driven shows do not need to be imbalanced, fast-paced and illogical.

But when they doooo do romance (Victor & Sabrina, Cane & Lily) people get all "gag gag gag". They cannot win.

Oh, Mark.... Victor & Sabrina and Cane & Lily have no life, no passion, no chemistry and no reason for existence. They are not well-received because they're bad. Katherine and Murphy are the closest thing to romance and that's because everyone is looking at their ages and going: "Aaaaaaaaaaw." Where are the hidden glances, the anxiety of whether he'll see her again, the subtle touches, the "innocent" flirting. Mark, they have NEVER written stuff like that.

Sabrina and Victor had what, a 2 minute courtship? Yeah, what a well-planned relationship/romance with tons of depth.

Cane and Lily are fools, and were rushed like hell too. To this day, I do not know why they even like one another and why Lily is even getting married AGAIN without graduating college first. They play them up as "cutesy" and dumb, not romantic and smart.

Edited May 14, 200916 yr by Y&RWorldTurner