Another World

[denzo30]

 

I wouldn't say 100% wrong.  I could be wrong but AW's ratings were already declining before they decided to expand to 90 minutes and in 1979, many soaps took a different direction appealing to younger audiences and hip storylines that Lemay had no interest in writing for. He even admits he has on interest writing for younger characters..  The Lemay period was a masterpiece but I think he even knew it was time to go.  I am sure because he knew the show was not popular anymore and he had an ego and did not want to show possible defeat.  He was not going to go out looking like he was tanking.  Also, other comments about King writing off Lemay's characters was much like what Lemay did even through his years. He introduced many characters and wrote them out not even 6 months later.   Most he never kept around.  Longevity was almost complete gone even when Lemay was still writing.  However, I have always been fascinated with his writing of the Frame family and got intrigued anytime the characters or offspring were mentioned or reintroduced into the canvas.  AW was really a very sleepy show that I LOVED.  I mentioned before, I watched because of the characters and not so much the storyline.  At 3pm I turned the channel to GH to get the excitement.  AW also tried at one point to be a show like GH but it was not a success.  Awful writers and themes in the early 80's. 

[kalbir]

Was Another World the most affected ratings-wise by the huge rise of the ABC big three in the late 1970s/early 1980s? It seems like every show that wasn't the ABC big three was a mess back then but a good number of them recovered but somehow Another World didn't yet NBC/P&G kept it. 

 

[Contessa Donatella]

No, Pete left when he did because he was exhausted & because he hated the 90 minute show. If Fred Silverman hadn't come up with the idea & if Paul Rauch hadn't helped tp push it through, they wouldn't have done it & the affiliates wouldn't have turned on them, and, really there's just no telling what good might have come. And, of course, Pete was very disappointed in the hour show. He did not get out of it what he had dreamed. 

I personally believe that the affiliates turning on AW was the first nail in the coffin. I know that many other people happen to agree. Of course, there are other opinions. 

Listening to Pete write about the HW job & talking to Wendy Riche about Claire Labine's exhaustion after the years they were EP/HW at GH, I've come to have an appreciation about how hard that job is. 

Of course, back in the day everyone watched for the characters. I never thought of AW as sleepy. 

The same is true of NBC preventing the Dobsons from HWing starting in Jan. 1993. AW could have had a Renaissance with Bridget & Jerome at the helm. P&G was set for it. The Dobsons were prepared to begin the next day after they were finished at SB. And, NBC stepped in & blocked it. 

Personally I cannot tease apart how much came from Pete leaving & the show having to make that transition & how much came from the copycatting of changed GH. I have no opinion about the ratings without running the numbers. 

ABC had been better in soaps for a long time & then got into some trouble. But they brought in 3 "Soap Savers" & turned their whos around pretty darn quickly. Jacqueline Babbin at AMC, Jean Arley at OLTL & Monty/Marland at GH. ABC was smart, savvy, formidable. NBC lagged for so long then had success all at once with the Doctors, AW & DOOL but they didn't know how to keep it. 

[Paul Raven]

 

The Dobsons to take over AW in January 1983? Santa Barbara wasn't even on the air .

 

Monty became GH exec producer in Jan 78 

Jacquie Babbin became AMC producer in 82 4 years later

Jean Arley joined OLTL in 1983 5 years later

ABC and CBS were holding their own at this point.

GH kept climbing and ABC eventually held the Top 3 positions but CBS were competitive. NBC was badly affected.

[Xanthe]

 

The reference appears to be to 1993. 

 

[Contessa Donatella]

Yes, Jan. 1993, did I make a typo with the date? Sorry, if so. I often relate that numbers & dates seem to hate me. Thank you for correcting that. The other day I posted about P&G playing musical chairs with their EPs in 1955. Of course that was in 1995. ARGH. Hmm, in this case I see that I had not fouled the number, I had said 1993. Anyway, thnx for stepping up. 

Edited February 8, 2023 by Tonksadora
had it right

[Contessa Donatella]

Yes, I agree with your dates. I was speaking of a time period when all 3 were at work for ABC, not that they were the exact same years. And, it took Monty/Marland 3 years to accomplish the total "saving of GH".  Although they accomplished enough right off the bat to move the axe from over the show's head, it's true. And, quixotically Babbin made her cat famous! For some unknown reason she'd take him to work with her & plop him down anywhere on the set & he would get into scenes of the show. Crazy. Can you imagine taking your cat to work with you? I admit I cannot. 

[Sapounopera]

I can't imagine what the Dobson's writing would have been in 1993. Would they try to turn Another World into Santa Barbara 2.0? This poor show was in desperate need for stability for more than ten years by that time and the Dobsons could not provide it to their own show.

 

[Contessa Donatella]

i don't think they would have tried to create SB in Bay City. Although I do know that they did repeat themselves at times. They did marital rape on GL and then again on ATWT, as one example. I don't think they would have done a lot of character creation. I guess I just think the show could've used some really inspired writing at the time & it didn't get it from Malone, who did try to write another show onto the Bay City landscape. Passanante certainly wrote the show very different. If the Dobsons don't appeal to you as a "what if" who does? I'm just curious. 

[Sapounopera]

Marland is my answer to almost any soap question. He was ready to move on from ATWT, wasn't he? An answer with many "what if's".

[Contessa Donatella]

Okay, I love Doug Marland & he was the closest thing to a protege Pete had but he died Mar. 1993, so that's problematic even for a "what if". 

[Contessa Donatella]

Okay, you make good points. I wanted to post this. It speaks to Lemay's frame of mind when he quit. This is a partial transcript of an interview by someone from WOST at an awards event in 2006. It's on YouTube, the whole thing, audio only. I made it for a friend who has hearing problems. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?fbclid=IwAR2nSuMXfgmtnowHV732TXQX5F_Pgxo7tv87ZIlC5vLk_GM04kIlmOnMoD4&v=ZmBjPDSeRR4&feature=youtu.be

No, I thought it was a ridiculous idea. ... I fought it & I lost. ... Producer from NBC Freddy Silverman came up with the idea. ...I quit after about 18 weeks of it... There's nothing as bad as writing for something you don't believe in.... I think you get fairly burned out as a writer for a soap. ... To turn out a script every day ... 8 yrs of it ... script every day (He had already mentioned having to write a script & then take all the network notes & write it again) ... I think I lasted longer than I should have. Spoke highly of Aggie. Social issue stories ... she's telling very relevant stories. I'd like to be doing more of that. P&G puts the ?someword? on most of that & then you have to fight for what you want & soon you're having to fight for everything & it gets too too tiring to have to fight that much over what is your life. Spoke highly of Beverlee McKinsey ... revealed she had a photographic memory. She memorized every colon & semi-colon. She memorized her lines & everyone else's too. Her character's husband just would not learn his lines, just would paraphrase & it drove her mad! Talked about Iris's maid, Vivian & that they first saw her in a Chekhov play! Talked about Louise Goddard. Talked about Doug Watson & they & Pete & wife would go out together all the time. Close, warm friendship. He misses Connie & Doug.

End

Connie Ford was like his writer's conscience. He went by her to gauge how he was doing. 

Doug Watson & his wife were often dinner partners with Lemay & Dorothy. 

Of course, they had each died. 

Edited February 8, 2023 by Tonksadora
add to end

[Contessa Donatella]

Speaking of Doug Marland, excuse me, this is not AW, but I'll get back to it. Do you, or any Marland fan follow Jennifer Kathleen Gibbons "Marland Monday" essays? She told me in December that she was moving to a new site. I have messaged her asking where. The last one I see where she was, is Jan. 24. 

https://jenniferkate.medium.com/marland-monday-where-he-goes-they-follow-they-follow-they-follow-dc130ed2fe9a

So, talking about writers & stories, and what ifs, and even who we might have wished to have writing, the real kicker is we never know, usually, if someone at NBC or someone at P&G dictated a given story. NBC dictated that Jake rape Marley. NBC told AW that violence against women increased the ratings. 

Shawn Reeves gave me pictures of costumes for AW & GL to post. On my Instagram acct I have  some AW fantasies between Jake & Vicky, an AW Halloween, the Jake & Vicky wedding at the Brooklyn Botannical Gardens & the Lumina Ball, which as far as I am concerned was the only part of Lumina that was good! When I posted them I messaged Jean Passanante & told her where they were if she had any interest in seeing them since she wrote the story & she replied that she & Laiman, I guess she said Leah, had written it together ... and then she said that it was a really weird story. It made me wonder whose idea it had been! When Passanante was hired, Victoria told me they were hiring someone to write romance for them. I did not know if that meant historical romance or what! 

I don't know if you recall that wedding or not, but it was one of daytime's better weddings. The BBG is an incredible venue. If you're ever in Brooklyn, see it! But, wouldn't you know it, it was completely overlooked by daytime, the mags, etc.

[Mona Kane Croft]

When Lemay left AW in 1979, both NBC and P&G knew the show needed to become a "normal" soap opera again.  Eight-years of Lemay's character-driven stuff had been a tremendous success, but it was clearly time to return to the ATWT, GL, AMC model -- which (in 1979) included strong believable characters, but also strong identifiable storylines.  Unfortunately at that time, there were precious few head-writers capable of taking-on that task, especially since AW was running itself into the ground with the awful 90-minute format.  In my opinion -- only Agnes Nixon, Doug Marland, Bill Bell, and possibly Claire Labine could have successfully taken on the reigns, after an iconic head-writer such as Lemay.  Unfortunately, all of them were unavailable, or perhaps wanted too much money.   Too this day, I cannot think of any other writers who could have gotten AW out of 8th (or was it 9th?) place in the ratings, while the show was still at 90-minutes.  And then -- even after AW returned to the 60-minute format, TPTB seemed unwilling to hire a first-rate iconic head-writer with a long successful reputation.  Without that, I thought the show had little chance of improvement.  And it was the worst soap-opera on the air for it's final 20-years (my opinion).   Yes, it had wonderful actors and moments of greatness.  But moments of greatness do not typically raise the ratings.   And although some may have enjoyed the writing of Sam Radcliff, Tom King, and all the others up until 1999 -- the question to ask is, "did those writers bring-up the ratings?"  I believe the answer is "no."     But I bet you a milk-shake Agnes Nixon, Bill Bell, or Doug Marland would have been successful at getting the ratings up to a respectable point.    

[DRW50]

That first ad airing the day Douglass Watson passed on sends a chill up your spine.

(the second I imagine older viewers probably said - wait, Gwen's supposed to be a bitch now?)